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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 6 hours
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sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour
#23417841 - 07/06/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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ive been having some troubles caused by spores not activating/germinating, and wondering if its possible or worthwhile to experiment in sugar dusting the jars (for pf cakes), to speed up germination. see, some of my jars are only now showing growth after a whole month, a few have succumb to dormant contaminants that usually dont ever show themselves, one jar even has the verm layer contaminated which fortunately wont/cant seem to affect the floured verm which the myc is now starting to occupy. Plus there are also other issues associated with only one side colonizing.
Would coating/spraying glucose into jar before dusting with fine verm offer any localized support to see the myc spread quickly? I already coat the inside of the jar with verm as preemptive rolling, though if its sticky i might be able to use a heavier vermaculite, so far its worked out well anyway plus with the fine stuff i can see where exactly my innoculations occur.
Also, similarly, would pre-milled rice flour, the consistency of ordinary flour, have any impact on the cakes? normally what i use is quite grainy, or has large grainy parts present. On that note also, is there anything i can substitute into white rice flour, which i can buy in 3kg packs cheaper than 1kg of brown rice, to get all the nutritional benefits of brown rice? This asuming milled rice is even better than coffee grinded rice (consistency wise). I have tried white rice cakes before, they werent nearly as good and seemed to contaminate easily after they came out of the jar, so id never do a plain white rice flour cake, though that said, i do have already a very large amount of white rice flour and no brown rice.
But most importantly id like to know about the use of sugar water just for coating the inside of the jar, glucose water, or honey water if thats better, im still a ways away from using live cultures just yet.
Edited by DrMushroom (07/06/16 05:59 PM)
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 211
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23417913 - 07/06/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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What tek are you following 100%?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: Psychedel.EXE]
#23417960 - 07/06/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sugar will only speed up the germination of all the shit you don't want to be sped up.. Spores don't need much sugar to germinate and it's only going to make things worse. Understand the basics before you start doing anything like this.. You should really be doing everything you can to use actual brown rice flour, since white flour is typically bleached and comes with several other disadvantages that can't be simply modified by adding more ingredients (or that would be amended to the tek). Leave out the white rice flour, call it a loss for now, if you really want to use it, figure it out later on down the line.
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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 6 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: Inocuole]
#23418309 - 07/06/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess ill hold off on the honey water then and work up to using live cultures. Ill right keep on using Brown rice then also.
But what of the coarseness of it? does it at all matter? i sieve out the big stuff but after adding water it still amounts to big chunks, that doesnt matter at all does it?
I have a ceramic ball mill and dehydrator so i can make flour consistency rice flour, is there any reason to/not to go that fine?
Edited by DrMushroom (07/06/16 09:10 PM)
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mindbentempire



Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 258
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 16 days, 23 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23418970 - 07/07/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can you describe your procedure of preparing your jars? I get a feeling that you are deviating from the tek. Do you mix the water into the vermiculite first, and then flour?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: mindbentempire]
#23419018 - 07/07/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds like you're doing something wrong along the way.
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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 6 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: mindbentempire]
#23419033 - 07/07/16 02:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah, basically normal tek, water in the verm then tilt the bowl to make sure theres no loose water, then add the ground rice. i then spray some water in the inside and now i sprinkle ground vermiculite around there along the sides as coarse wont stick and normal coarse on the bottom just a little, then fill the rice-verm mix, then the verm layer on top. the verm on the bottom acts as a buffer, regardless of how the cake winds up oriented, as otherwise ive found the space between the cake and whatever i sit the cakes on in the fruiting chamber is always the eventual source of contam, plus if water collects on it its better that it just collects on vermiculite instead of colonized BRF. This all being incase the mushrooms grow off the bottom of the jar meaning i have to put that end upwards which ive found is more often than not.
coating the inside of the jar in a layer of verm ive found also makes the myc less dense and makes cakes come out easier, though without grinding the verm its futile to try, since not enough verm ever gets stuck on.
I still dunk AND role afterwards, not nearly enough to substitute a roll gets on there, but i am positive it makes the cakes come out easier. I figured using honey water like glue would help me put heavier verm on there AND help the spores grow.
Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Sounds like you're doing something wrong along the way.
What is the wrong way? sieving out larger pieces of brown rice to remill? Remember this is all hypothetical these questions for the time being. besides having a small, small, like pinch sized verm layer on the bottom and fine verm coating the inside of the jar, its PF tek 100%
Edited by DrMushroom (07/07/16 02:08 AM)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23419038 - 07/07/16 02:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Using any kind of sugar water will help mold grow and nothing else. You don't need to rely on sticky substances to get vermiculite to stick to a cake. I've seen thousands of cakes that people didn't seem to have any problem getting well coated in verm.
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locallorax
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/12
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: bodhisatta]
#23419042 - 07/07/16 02:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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What's your method/source of inoculation? Spore syringe, liquid culture?
Innoculating with liquid culture will colonize faster than a spore syringe.
Fresh air exchange also aids colonization. Where are they located
As for the brown rice flour, more nutritious purchasing brown rice and grinding yourself. Finer the better, but I wouldn't sift or obsess over consistency. Pretty sure the water from the vermiculite and heat from sterilization serves to "cook" the rice and allow it to be digested by mycelia
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: locallorax]
#23419063 - 07/07/16 02:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you're doing cakes chances are you're no where near ready to fuck with LC, especially if you can't cake excellently
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mindbentempire



Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 258
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 16 days, 23 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: locallorax]
#23419070 - 07/07/16 02:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
locallorax said:
Fresh air exchange also aids colonization. Where are they located
No it doesn't. You need GE (Gas Exchange) Fresh air exchange is for fruiting.
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mindbentempire



Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 258
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 16 days, 23 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: mindbentempire]
#23419072 - 07/07/16 02:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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OP, please read this, if you haven't already:
EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: mindbentempire]
#23419073 - 07/07/16 02:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 6 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: Inocuole]
#23419242 - 07/07/16 05:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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The problem is, because, i suspect of wildy fluctuating temperatures (5 degree nights but 30-35 degree days), all my spores go dormant quickly. I had spore prints made only 2 months earlier that took a whole month to germinate.
The vermaculite i would have liked to stick on the inside of the jar using something sticky instead of just water so i could coat it with an actually substantial layer, as it makes it really easy to birth the cakes and ensures that no consolidation occures right on the glass forming very tight seals, it works too, but if the verm used is fine, only marginally, its hard making a proper layer, not even worth the effort it saves.
The sugar being sticky and helping on this is just a bonus.
The main purpose was to kickstart dormant spores because as i said, im not yet ready to do liquid cultures, mostly just because i havent done enough innoculations or sterile work to be compromised to identify every contamination source and means to mitigate it. Also i cant find the proper silicon for the self healing injection port and im not confident enough to mess with live cultures unless i do it totally right. But, since it would really accelerate contamination growth that i was seeking to avoid/ have the mycelium overtake, theres not much point then is there it seems 
Also good to know the consistency of the rice flour wouldnt be an issue.
Thanks y'all
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23419246 - 07/07/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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People get spores shipped in the winter etc... They don't get dormantized like that. If they're taking that long to germinate there is likely a different problem that's not to be blamed on spores.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: bodhisatta]
#23419589 - 07/07/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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This all sounds sorta ridiculous. And very unnecessary. Just follow the pf tek to the "T" 100%. Do not deviate at all. Especially since it sounds like you have little to zero experience.
Anyways, my main point is that all of this sounds completely unnecessary.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23420761 - 07/07/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DrMushroom said: The problem is, because, i suspect of wildy fluctuating temperatures (5 degree nights but 30-35 degree days), all my spores go dormant quickly.
I think the problem is you are lining the jar with vermiculite and then injecting into this area of verm with little or no nutrients in it.
It would be like making a petri of 4% malt agar and pouring a layer of non-nutrient agar on top, then injecting spores on that upper layer and wondering why nothing is happening.
If you dusted with sugar/glucose it would be extremely high in sugar in the local area you are injecting spores into, might not grow at all.
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DrMushroom
Human Farmer


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 722
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 23 days, 6 hours
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: bodhisatta]
#23420771 - 07/07/16 04:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: People get spores shipped in the winter etc... They don't get dormantized like that. If they're taking that long to germinate there is likely a different problem that's not to be blamed on spores.
such as?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23420775 - 07/07/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It was a nice way of saying "something you're doing".
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 211
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Re: sugar dusting the inside of jars and what about pre-milled rice flour [Re: DrMushroom]
#23421523 - 07/07/16 09:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know my post count is low and I did JUST register this account the other day, but I am still plenty capable of speaking some truth on the subject of cultivation. Truth is, you REALLY need to follow along with a well respected tek and not cut corners or try to do things differently in any way whatsoever until you have at least mastered the basics. This hobby is time consuming, so honestly if you are not gonna do things in a way that is proven to yield results then you are just wasting a LOT of time and some cash. Lets Grow Mushrooms is a good place to start. Do your cakes precisely and exactly like RR does in that video and I can promise you will at least be on the right track to success. Good luck
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