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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Caramelization
    #23414706 - 07/05/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I was just wondering how many of you use your caramelized jars? I use them when the caramelization isn't too bad. I've noticed that when I inoculate them with agar they colonize a lot faster. I think it's because the sludge makes some kind of 'liquid culture'. They are also more prone to bacterial problems.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23415098 - 07/05/16 08:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Are you talking about overly wet or over cooked grain jars?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23415169 - 07/05/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmoKramer said:
Are you talking about overly wet or over cooked grain jars?




Sometimes the bottom of the jars gets a caramelized layer on it. It turns kindof sludgy. I think it's from heating the jars too quickly, if I remember correctly


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/05/16 09:19 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23415195 - 07/05/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

CosmoKramer said:
Are you talking about overly wet or over cooked grain jars?




Sometimes the bottom of the jars gets a caramelized layer on it. It turns kindof sludgy. I think it's from heating the jars too quickly, if I remember correctly




That sounds. . . Odd. I would love to see a pic. Overcooked or caramelized grains are darker but I never see actual caramel in the jars and I have really cooked the shit outta grains in the past. Even caramelized LC just looks dark and has sediment.


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23415277 - 07/05/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Are you soaking/rinsing, what type of grain, and method are you using?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23415303 - 07/05/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmoKramer said:
Are you soaking/rinsing, what type of grain, and method are you using?




I boil the oats til they are saturated. Then I strain and toss them. Usually I use a blow dryer to get the outside as dry as I like. I jar them up and PC them.

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

CosmoKramer said:
Are you talking about overly wet or over cooked grain jars?




Sometimes the bottom of the jars gets a caramelized layer on it. It turns kindof sludgy. I think it's from heating the jars too quickly, if I remember correctly




That sounds. . . Odd. I would love to see a pic. Overcooked or caramelized grains are darker but I never see actual caramel in the jars and I have really cooked the shit outta grains in the past. Even caramelized LC just looks dark and has sediment.




I will post a pic when I get another one. I am doing a bunch of jars tonight and tomorrow. I always get a few here and there.

It basically just looks like melted oat sludge. I'm surprised you've never had it happen to you. It's only ever in the bottom, and usually doesn't go up more than an inch.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23415321 - 07/05/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Nope. I ran oats at least 100 times and never seen anything like what you are describing. That's why I'm so curious.


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23415326 - 07/05/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the clarification. That is weird though. Does it happen with all of the brands of oats that you've tried? Perhaps cut back on heat or time boiling them?
  :shrug:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23415381 - 07/05/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmoKramer said:
Thanks for the clarification. That is weird though. Does it happen with all of the brands of oats that you've tried? Perhaps cut back on heat or time boiling them?
  :shrug:




Maybe I should heat them more slowly. I noticed the trey in the bottom was bent flat, so maybe that had something to do with it too, but I corrected that.

I have experienced this with every type of grain I've ever used. I use a $70 presto 7 jar PC from Walmart. I used to get it with WBS also. I will send pics. I have about 30 mins left on this cycle, and I may very well have at least one.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23415385 - 07/05/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

K that sounds like some spilled starch or something collecting. Over hydrated grain etc. What grain prep do you use?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23415405 - 07/05/16 10:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
K that sounds like some spilled starch or something collecting. Over hydrated grain etc. What grain prep do you use?




Yes, it's like starchy goop on the bottom. Maybe caramelization is the wrong word.

I boil the oats til they are saturated. Then I strain and toss them. Usually I use a blow dryer to get the outside as dry as I like. I jar them up and PC them.

I used to soak first... This is how I have been doing it lately. I just boil until the white starch inside gelatinizes, when I break them open.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23415577 - 07/06/16 12:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Could it be your gypsum?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: stareatclouds]
    #23416179 - 07/06/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Could it be your gypsum?




I don't put gypsum in my jars anymore. Just coffee water.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineMycoLoopology
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23416470 - 07/06/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i think 'boiling' MIGHT be your issue. i never go past a simmer with my grains or else they over hydrate and explode.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: MycoLoopology]
    #23416918 - 07/06/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Doesn't seem to be an issue for anyone else. I probably have this issue with 1/20 jars or so. If you look at some of the prep teks, they suggest hard boiling the grains. This makes the waterwater evaporate off of them when you toss them afterwords.

Here are some pictures:



I believe RR used to refer to this as 'caramelization', but there may be a better term.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23416924 - 07/06/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

When I shake them fresh out of the PC, they mix in fairly well, and it can still be alright. These jars colonize faster from agar, as I said, probably because the sludge carriescarries mycelium bits throughout the jar more efficiently than whole grains.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineMycoLoopology
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23416930 - 07/06/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

over hydration; looks like pooling water to me. more clever eyes than mine exist in droves here though so dont take my word for it lol.


--------------------
Current Grow Log

^^My first grow log <3^^

Wish me luck.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Caramelization [Re: MycoLoopology]
    #23416966 - 07/06/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah it is spilled starch. That is bacteria bait for sure. Try either hydrating them slightly less or getting them dryer on the outside. I know that with the hulls on them oats often can be dry on the outside and still have a bit of water still in the shell.

Odd that you have that issue with em, oats for me were really forgiving on that front.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23417051 - 07/06/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Yeah it is spilled starch. That is bacteria bait for sure. Try either hydrating them slightly less or getting them dryer on the outside. I know that with the hulls on them oats often can be dry on the outside and still have a bit of water still in the shell.

Odd that you have that issue with em, oats for me were really forgiving on that front.




I see. Thanks for the tip man! I'm kind of surprised that that's the issue, because I toss them and blow dry them... I think I probably do too much at once in the strainer, so it collects at the bottom, and that's why its only a few jars here and there.

I've hear of people who just throw them in the strainer and don't toss them or blow dry them or anything, so it's strange that I have this issue.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Caramelization [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23417173 - 07/06/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I spread them out on newspapers on my counter and let them steam dry themselves. It's much quicker than letting them sit in the strainer (which is not big enough to facilitate them, IMO). I move them around with my hand or spatula on the newspaper and let them hang out until they pass the TP test (now I just ballpark their moisture, but TP test is good still).


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Caramelization [Re: stareatclouds]
    #23417326 - 07/06/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
I spread them out on newspapers on my counter and let them steam dry themselves. It's much quicker than letting them sit in the strainer (which is not big enough to facilitate them, IMO). I move them around with my hand or spatula on the newspaper and let them hang out until they pass the TP test (now I just ballpark their moisture, but TP test is good still).




I just made 110 jars this past week (still pcing some of them). My gf would kill me if I tried to do some 50 lbs of Oats that way lol! Although, I will take it into consideration for a little test.

I don't mind a few bad jars here and there though. I can just remake them.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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