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Offlineyeah
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Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable?
    #23413928 - 07/05/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Why is there any reason for all of this to keep going? We simply can't learn to not judge one another and to just be free and unburdened by ignorance.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: yeah]
    #23414005 - 07/05/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Humanity is a bunch of people making humour.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: yeah]
    #23414057 - 07/05/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Why is there any reason for all of this to keep going? We simply can't learn to not judge one another and to just be free and unburdened by ignorance.




"Why is there any reason for all of this to keep going? '

maybe one of Newtons laws? : inertia

or another version ie. Karma aka cause & effect


---------

"We simply can't learn to not judge one another"

for those of us who notice the problem, we can make efforts to change.
Tonglen, a Tibetan way of working on oneself deals with this for example.
Pema Chodron makes it acessable to western meditators:
https://www.youtube.com/resuclts?search_query=pema+chodron


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: yeah]
    #23414441 - 07/05/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

'Rome wasn't built in a day.'

In other words, civilization formed for very specific reasons over a long period of time and became entrenched.  Anything other than civilization would therefore be very difficult to come by.  Radical change is seen as virtually impossible.  Certainly, when you really get right down to it, at a fundamental level there has never really been change that is all that radical -- at least not in a short time span.  The system is, as laughingdog attested, very, very inert.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23414448 - 07/05/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

IMO, yes. We fucked up when we broke tribal culture IMO.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23414456 - 07/05/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Anthropologist Jared Diamond called the adoption of full-scale agriculture "the worst mistake in the history of the human race."  When you look at the facts it's hard to disagree.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: yeah]
    #23414479 - 07/05/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

i've heard an analogy before that people are like rocks in a rock tumbler - they bump and grate against each other (and the sand), and through this, they get refined and come out as polished gems :smile:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23414543 - 07/05/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Anthropologist Jared Diamond called the adoption of full-scale agriculture "the worst mistake in the history of the human race."  When you look at the facts it's hard to disagree.



I wholeheartedly agree with this. When we stopped taking what we NEED and starting making what we WANT was where it all went wrong IMO.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23414572 - 07/05/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

To quote Nirvana, "I'm worst at what I do best."

Seems what sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom (namely, rational thought) is what we keep letting get in our way. I think the cycle can be broken, but the change takes place on an individual level before a systemic level.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23414743 - 07/05/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought :shrug:


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23414761 - 07/05/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Why is there any reason for all of this to keep going?




Because there is plenty of good along with the shit, and the alternative is just not existing. Who wants that?

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Anthropologist Jared Diamond called the adoption of full-scale agriculture "the worst mistake in the history of the human race."  When you look at the facts it's hard to disagree.




I found that article to be pretty ridiculous. If we were still hunter gatherers we would not have to the same degree the culture, science, art, well-being, etc. that we have. He is idealizing a way of life that is too far gone to even properly consider. The remaining people who somewhat follow that life-style aren't a sufficient look into pre-agriculture humanity.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23414769 - 07/05/16 06:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought :shrug:




"Human-style rational thought" is the only thing stopping us from living like the rest of the animals. It's the thing that provides basically all the things that make life worth living.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23414792 - 07/05/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
It's the thing that provides basically all the things that make life worth living.



Urrrr, I disagree wholeheartedly.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23414803 - 07/05/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The question of modern life is WHERE AM I

The question of PRESENT life is WHO AM I

The PRESENT is YOU

The environment asks the questions and provides the answers

The whole thing is a conundrum


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Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23414806 - 07/05/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Care to give some reasoning as to why that is? It gives us the ability to create art and understand the world through science. Even if you want to argue that ways of feeling are what make life worth living and that other animals can feel, it is "human-style rational thought" that gives us the ability to contextualize and consider those emotions instead of just having brute feeling.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23414864 - 07/05/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought :shrug:




"Human-style rational thought" is the only thing stopping us from living like the rest of the animals. It's the thing that provides basically all the things that make life worth living.




Gotta disagree with this. Do you think dogs hanging out on street corners think to themselves "Man I wish I could post on the Shroomery, I am so deprived"?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23414897 - 07/05/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Uh...no. That's exactly my point. Would you honestly rather switch places with that dog?


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23414901 - 07/05/16 07:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought :shrug:




"Human-style rational thought" is the only thing stopping us from living like the rest of the animals. It's the thing that provides basically all the things that make life worth living.




Gotta disagree with this. Do you think dogs hanging out on street corners think to themselves "Man I wish I could post on the Shroomery, I am so deprived"?




Non sequitar.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23415000 - 07/05/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Uh...no. That's exactly my point. Would you honestly rather switch places with that dog?




Why not? Dogs seem to desire less than people do, they seem almost as chilled as cats for the most part. I've not observed much mental illness or internal distress in dogs, whereas I've never met a sane human being.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23415053 - 07/05/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I've never met a sane human being.



Neither have I. But neither have I met a sane dog; I feel anything raised by humans cannot ever be 'sane'. I've only seen them videod in packs where they still exist as wolves.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: deff]
    #23415060 - 07/05/16 08:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
i've heard an analogy before that people are like rocks in a rock tumbler - they bump and grate against each other (and the sand), and through this, they get refined and come out as polished gems :smile:




or rocks in a sack, yeah, and though they have rough edges, at first later on they are smooth like rocks from the ocean or a stream :heartpump:

ya on the whole the main issue is schadenfreude...  that is - taking pleasure from others' pain. . . anyway :smile:

i'm pretty sure it's done and gone :smile: true story.


--------------------
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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23415082 - 07/05/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
ut neither have I met a sane dog; I feel anything raised by humans cannot ever be 'sane'.




I disagree. I think animals raised by humans just ignore most of our stupid shit unless it directly harms them. Certainly cats and dogs are much closer to their pre-civilisation lifestyles than humans are.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23415093 - 07/05/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What are you basing that on? Your biases?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23415156 - 07/05/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
unless it directly harms them.



But that's the problem right? Have you ever met a human that is not harmed, and thus, does not harm?

I haven't.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23415163 - 07/05/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Observation.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23415171 - 07/05/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

viktor said:
unless it directly harms them.



But that's the problem right? Have you ever met a human that is not harmed, and thus, does not harm?

I haven't.




Most human misery is self-inflicted in the form of neuroses and a failure of spiritual hygiene. This doesn't directly affect animals.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23415205 - 07/05/16 09:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You are kind of losing me on your point..

It seems you are saying both:

1) animals are incapable of higher order logic ["Most human misery is self-inflicted in the form of neuroses and a failure of spiritual hygiene. This doesn't directly affect animals."]


and

2) animals choose not to participate in higher order logic ["Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought"]



Clearly, it cannot be both.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23415227 - 07/05/16 09:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
Clearly, it cannot be both.




Very clearly. The second comment was ironic.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23415230 - 07/05/16 09:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Anyway, what does intelligence have to do with higher-order logic?


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23415345 - 07/05/16 10:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Why not?




I don't believe for a second that you would really trade being a human for being a dog.

Quote:

I've never met a sane human being.





Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Neither have I.




Either you guys run in ridiculous circles, or you have an asinine definition of sanity.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23415358 - 07/05/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I disagree. I think animals raised by humans just ignore most of our stupid shit unless it directly harms them.




Yeah, that's because they have no basis to understand most things that humans do. You are anthropomorphizing non-human animals.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23415384 - 07/05/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Why not?




I don't believe for a second that you would really trade being a human for being a dog.





:shrug: Probably a dog wouldn't trade for being me either. A dog would look at all the psychological damage humans go through trying to breed and would think "fuck that".


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23415404 - 07/05/16 10:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

lol no. A dog wouldn't trade with you because a dog would have no concept of trading lives with anything. A dog doesn't know a single thing about the "psychological damage" humans go through, nor does it have a single idea about what psychology even is as it's a human invention. There you are anthropomorphizing non-human animals again.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23415819 - 07/06/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

How do you know what it's like to be a dog?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416171 - 07/06/16 07:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't, but I know what it's like to be a human. All evidence points to a massive difference between being a dog and being a human. It's much safer to assume that dogs aren't like us than assume that they understand psychology and have complex thoughts about what humans are doing. Has a dog ever created art? Has a dog ever done science? Has a dog ever demonstrated human level complex thought? Do dogs know language? How could a dog even conceptualize human concepts at all without language?


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416200 - 07/06/16 07:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I don't, but I know what it's like to be a human. All evidence points to a massive difference between being a dog and being a human. It's much safer to assume that dogs aren't like us than assume that they understand psychology and have complex thoughts about what humans are doing. Has a dog ever created art? Has a dog ever done science? Has a dog ever demonstrated human level complex thought? Do dogs know language? How could a dog even conceptualize human concepts at all without language?




What we share with dogs, beyond basic living,  are emotions, capacity for empathy, the experience of suffering, a sense of play, and so on ... it's not all about 'pure' cognition.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23416202 - 07/06/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

George Carlin has some funny shit about dogs


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23416233 - 07/06/16 07:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
What we share with dogs, beyond basic living,  are emotions, capacity for empathy, the experience of suffering, a sense of play, and so on ... it's not all about 'pure' cognition.




Well I was talking about what makes us different from dogs, not what makes us similar.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416241 - 07/06/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
What we share with dogs, beyond basic living,  are emotions, capacity for empathy, the experience of suffering, a sense of play, and so on ... it's not all about 'pure' cognition.




Well I was talking about what makes us different from dogs, not what makes us similar.




dogoneit your right!


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416535 - 07/06/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Do dogs know language? How could a dog even conceptualize human concepts at all without language?




The language of dogs is a language of smells, of barks and growls and of body language. It's extremely sophisticated and complex. If you haven't noticed this then you don't know much about dogs.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416582 - 07/06/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Please explain to me how a dog can understand human psychology via smells and barks. This should be interesting.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416604 - 07/06/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Please explain to me how a dog can understand human psychology via smells and barks. This should be interesting.




Booooooooom - fucking shambled


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens] * 2
    #23416625 - 07/06/16 11:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Please explain to me how a dog can understand human psychology via smells and barks. This should be interesting.




Try reading this for a start: https://www.doghealth.com/how-and-why/how-dogs-sense-emotions

It's clear you know very little about dogs. That's alright. It's even alright to claim that because you know very little about dogs then you must have won the argument.

Don't mistake your inability to appreciate the intelligence of other beings to mean that those beings are not intelligent.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416709 - 07/06/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, now explain to me how a dog being able to sense emotions via non-verbal cues equates to this:

Quote:

A dog would look at all the psychological damage humans go through trying to breed and would think "fuck that".




How would the dog conceptualize this psychological damage? How would the dog connect that psychological damage to attempts to breed? Who's to say that the dog even understands those emotions in any significant way. The dog could easily be responding to those emotions based solely on the consequences to the dog as indicated in that article when they say "At some point in history, early dogs learned to decode human nonverbal language. The better they anticipated our thoughts and feelings, the more they were rewarded with food, shelter and affection."

There is also the fact that emotions =/= psychology. Psychology is a theoretical complex of concepts that are expressed via human language. Dogs do not understand this.

Quote:

Don't mistake your inability to appreciate the intelligence of other beings to mean that those beings are not intelligent.




I never said other animals aren't intelligent. To go all the way back to when I first responded to you, you said this:

Quote:

Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought




Which is total nonsense. Non-human animals can't engage in human style rational thought. It's not as if they got a taste and thought nah we'll just go back to base instinct and much less complex intelligence. Ridiculous.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416713 - 07/06/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

In my experience, dogs can sense quite a bit about their humans.  Dogs are also excellent judges of character.  Dogs are actually quite complex.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23416725 - 07/06/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Many animals are quite complex. That doesn't mean they can engage in anything resembling "human-style rational thought" which is dependent on the use of human language. Nor does it mean that they can understand human created concepts expressed in human language.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23416738 - 07/06/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

maybe there are more intuitive ways to understand things that do not rely on the use of internalized language. if so, maybe our strong conditioning towards language blocks us from this more intuitive faculty :smile: with that in mind, I really do not think we can place limits on what a dog or other animal can know or experience, without having experienced being that dog/animal ourselves


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416739 - 07/06/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that is likely true, but I would also say that dogs are generally savvier than they get credit for -- the smart ones, anyway.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: deff]
    #23416835 - 07/06/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
maybe there are more intuitive ways to understand things that do not rely on the use of internalized language. if so, maybe our strong conditioning towards language blocks us from this more intuitive faculty :smile: with that in mind, I really do not think we can place limits on what a dog or other animal can know or experience, without having experienced being that dog/animal ourselves




Language is the most complex form of communication. It isn't a coincidence that we are able to communicate complex ideas through language and that we are so successful as a species. We can most certainly know for sure that neither dogs nor any other non-human animal understands psychology. They do not understand human language and psychological theories are expressed in human language. There is no possible way they could understand. Go pick up some psychology textbooks and read them to your dog. When you come back here with a treatise written by your dog, then we can talk.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23416855 - 07/06/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

My dog doesn't respect me when I'm stoned. I think she picks up on the fragmentation of my intent, and so defers to her own will to a greater extent. It's fascinating how shifts in our consciousness effect the animals we're entangled with.

Quote:

We simply can't learn to not judge one another




To the OP, I think we can learn to not judge each other, or at least to not engage with the judgements that arise, but it takes work if we've been programmed otherwise. Many are caught up with other activities of greater interest to them.

Quote:

and to just be free and unburdened by ignorance.




Would you care to expand on this? Do you mean free of ignorance, or unburdened by the fact of our ignorance? I find ignorance to be our natural state, but the term can also refer to a deliberate disregard for information. I'm curious to know how you're using it here.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #23416869 - 07/06/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

reminds me of the one time I went to spend time with my guinea pig while on mushrooms - he was terrified of me, as if he didn't recognize me at all. seemed like he definitely noticed the change in the state of my mind / behaviour / energy :smile:


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: deff]
    #23417155 - 07/06/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Eyes. Your eyes. You probably looked like someone else.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23428567 - 07/10/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

there are certain people that rely on the misery of others in order to feel like they're alive.  this is true.  and it's disturbing.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bass head]
    #23428643 - 07/10/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

They were probably abused in some way in early life.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bass head]
    #23428704 - 07/10/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bass head said:
there are certain people that rely on the misery of others in order to feel like they're alive.  this is true.  and it's disturbing.




What's far more disturbing to me is that a dominatrix who makes money inflicting pain to someone actually willing to pay for it and "enjoy" it.

I don't understand tattoos or piercings for this same reason.  Of course the tattoo guy doesn't likely really want to inflict maximum pain, but why someone will sit there to be marred and scarred and marked for life is beyond me.  One guy I met does tattoo removal for a living, his motto is something like "get off to a clean start".  Probably hurts when he lasers that bad tat off.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23428739 - 07/10/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
beyond me.



A lot is. :shrug:


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429017 - 07/10/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
beyond me.



A lot is. :shrug:




Still think you are God?



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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429034 - 07/10/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not surprised that's the best you could come up with.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429054 - 07/10/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
I'm not surprised that's the best you could come up with.




Delusional, as usual.  And expects Sympathy from others when this way? 

Sorry, it don't work that way.  One day, you'll really figure that out.  Or not.  The squeaky wheel may get the grease, but in the interim nobody wants to hear it.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429080 - 07/10/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Who am I thinking of?

Old, bitter, conspiracy nutter.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: yeah]
    #23429288 - 07/10/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Misery is self inflicted. We all get exactly what we deserve. When we feel that people rely on us, it opens the door for pride.we often enjoy feeling like we are needed so that we subconsciously feel superior. This breeds resentment, and we lash out at those who we judge as less significant. if we are to step out of the spotlight, and observe human behavior in this era, it is much like a human centipede. When we thank people, we are priding them- as if we are dependent of them, as if they are our God. When we apologize, we are saying that our life is better than theirs- that we, are better than them. We have been under a simulatiom of polite society and have.gone from watching the show, to becoming the show. We buy things to promote a reputable public image so that we feel empowerment over people when they admire us. we can not help anyone, and no one ever has helped anyone. offering advice is to empower ourself with the thought that they might accept it, join our side, and we grow our power to rule over anyone who disagrees with us and our possee. (observe street gangs). to offer the truth, without suggestions, allows one to decide for themselves what the right answer is, as every choice we make is the right choice. Whether we know it or not, everyone has the same destination- God. We all wish to achieve the God mind, and be self reliant, so that other individuals choices won't affect our lives negatively. God is not what it is made to seem like by the government who wishes to elude you from the truth, God is a state of mind- our true state of being. When we are dependent of other people, we unwillingly allow an ego to manifest by developing a persona, a mask, that is used as a tool to build a reputation in order to gain a larger possee to rule over opposing people. That is the only reason we experience loneliness.
The hardest thing to see is often what is right in front of us. all expressiom of emotion is fake. We do not feel emotion, it is an ego that experiences laughter out of pride and resentment. It is failure to achieve a reputable public image that drives us to feel sadness or anger.

If we were to perceive the world as if everyone has died and we are the last person on earth, we would can see very clearly how dependent we are of each other. We would not laugh, cry, strive, play, listen to music, watch television, fear running out of time, become distracted, or care about anything that is not relative to our survival.
that imaginary world, is this world, we are alone in it, and we are as dead as we ever will be. There is no logic in debating with the walking dead, and again, we can not help anyone, we can only offer the truth to those who wish to help themselvesc as removing someone from the human centipede will likely hurt them even more.
We only fear what we do not understand, and by nature we choose to kill or run from the things that we fear.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23429392 - 07/10/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Misery is self inflicted?  We all get exactly what we deserve?

Fucking seriously?  I deserved to get the tip of my dick cut off at birth for exactly what reason?

Seriously?

This culture is a sick fucking joke.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429494 - 07/10/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Whether or not we are capable of thinking for ourselves is up to the thinker, it is not subjective.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23429504 - 07/10/16 02:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Whether or not we are capable of thinking for ourselves is up to the thinker, it is not subjective.




Just as thinking is subjective, your bullshit is just that.  Subjective bullshit...

Objective?  With 55 posts?  Uh Huh.  Try again, establish something of truth other than your statements of bullshit.

"If it smells like cow dung, it's likely complete BullShit" - LunarEclipse


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429518 - 07/10/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Who am I thinking of?

Old, bitter, conspiracy nutter.




There is a lot of irony in this post, considering the thread title.


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429521 - 07/10/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

We only fear what we do not understand and by nature we run from or kill what we fear.
Often whem we criticize people it is our ego mocking our true self in order to further control the consciousness. All forms of judgement are hypocritical, as we are all exactlt the same thing, and division is an illusion.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23429533 - 07/10/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
We only fear what we do not understand and by nature we run from or kill what we fear.
Often whem we criticize people it is our ego mocking our true self in order to further control the consciousness. All forms of judgement are hypocritical, as we are all exactlt the same thing, and division is an illusion.




What, you bring killing into my thread about respecting boundaries?

Frankly that makes no sense.  What's your point? 

Any animal when threatened will defend itself.  That's not judgement, it's reality, and really you seem full of shit, if I may be in the least bit honest.  You talk a lot of nonsense.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429587 - 07/10/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

To lash our at something means to want it dead, whether it be a concept or a being. An ego will defend itself against truth in order to maintain the persona that possesses the body. It is not the ego who is part of us, it is equivalent to that of a character in a book. again, pride will disallow us to accept anyones input and it will prevent us from ever admitting that we are wrong. The message of God has been misconstrued through religion bud God is the state of ones true self, and the 7 deadly sins breed our ego that divide consciousness and can consume our entire existence. Misery is indeed self inflicted, and if we are troubled, it is our own responsibility to our self to walk away.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23429606 - 07/10/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Misery is self inflicted. We all get exactly what we deserve.




wow aren't you the big judge of right and wrong


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23429613 - 07/10/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Misery is self inflicted. We all get exactly what we deserve.




wow aren't you the big judge of right and wrong




Statements of completely unexplained "facts" coupled with a bit judgement need to be discarded.  Now we are into MPD so we will watch those 9 egos or whatever the fuck is going on explore their righteous indignation and guilt syndromes.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23429630 - 07/10/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Misery is self inflicted. We all get exactly what we deserve.




wow aren't you the big judge of right and wrong




He's right though.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23429653 - 07/10/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It is not judgement. we only have ourselves to blame; if we are to join the army and get killedc it was us who made the decision and were prepared to accept the consequences. Even if we are walking alone at night and someone walks up behind us and shoots us in the chest, it is our own fault for putting ourself in that place. Tomorrow is not promised for any of us, we must be wary if we have a will to survive. If we are not aware of our surroundings, we will fail to recognize danger when it is near. we all get exactly what we deserve


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23429715 - 07/10/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Misery is self inflicted. We all get exactly what we deserve.




wow aren't you the big judge of right and wrong




He's right though.




I see what you are saying, and I think it's accurate, but only up to a point.  We are the only ones who can be sanguine about situations that may not be ideal.  If we can find the right state, some of us can do all right.  But suffering and misery are not always the fault of those experiencing them.  It can be tough for people having terminal illness, long prison sentences, chronic severe pain, deformity, amputation, blindness, paralysis, psychosis, etc.  I wouldn't blame people for having to deal with these things.  So saying misery is necessarily self-inflicted is a bit ridiculous.  It doesn't make sense to blame people for not being able to have positive reactions to these sorts of things.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23429741 - 07/10/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The whole premise of blaming someone else for their condition is absurd.  Likewise to think that someone somehow deserves what they get is so judgmental as to be ridiculous.  Besides odds there may some merit but mostly it's blind luck or lack thereof.


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23429751 - 07/10/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Tomorrow isnt promised as it is, and we arent even supposed to be here. we can not blame our parents for the decisions that they.made in raising us, but we are certainly responsible for th choices we make. we seem to have been led to believe that there is something wrong with us if we are born with a mental or physical dysfunction, but we are all equal and capable of appreciating life


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23429762 - 07/10/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
we arent even supposed to be here.




Says who? Saying we are or are not supposed to be here implies some overarching purpose. Who decides what that purpose is?

Quote:

but we are all equal




No.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23429811 - 07/10/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Tomorrow isnt promised as it is, and we arent even supposed to be here. we can not blame our parents for the decisions that they.made in raising us, but we are certainly responsible for th choices we make. we seem to have been led to believe that there is something wrong with us if we are born with a mental or physical dysfunction, but we are all equal and capable of appreciating life




We are not all equal. We aren't even supposed to be here, says who?  We are responsible for exactly what? 

Another guilt tripper, with no evidence to support their supposed position.  Lay off the guilt, and your equality (communist!) theme.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429828 - 07/10/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol LE saying two things I said exactly the same. Too bad he's ignoring me.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23429841 - 07/10/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Misery is self inflicted. We all get exactly what we deserve.




wow aren't you the big judge of right and wrong




He's right though.




I see what you are saying, and I think it's accurate, but only up to a point.  We are the only ones who can be sanguine about situations that may not be ideal.  If we can find the right state, some of us can do all right.  But suffering and misery are not always the fault of those experiencing them.  It can be tough for people having terminal illness, long prison sentences, chronic severe pain, deformity, amputation, blindness, paralysis, psychosis, etc.  I wouldn't blame people for having to deal with these things.  So saying misery is necessarily self-inflicted is a bit ridiculous.  It doesn't make sense to blame people for not being able to have positive reactions to these sorts of things.




I'm not sure why you're going on about blame. I can't see how that comes into it in any way.

You can only suffer if you identify with the illusion. That's true even of someone being torn apart by wild dogs.

If you say "But suffering is reasonable under those circumstances" then it's clear that you do not understand what suffering is or what ultimately causes it.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23429852 - 07/10/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol, ridiculous. Next time I see someone getting torn apart by dogs I'll make sure to inform them that their suffering is only an illusion.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23429853 - 07/10/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Also, what is this obsession you have with dogs? Very strange.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23430100 - 07/10/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I'm not sure why you're going on about blame. I can't see how that comes into it in any way.

You can only suffer if you identify with the illusion. That's true even of someone being torn apart by wild dogs.

If you say "But suffering is reasonable under those circumstances" then it's clear that you do not understand what suffering is or what ultimately causes it.




Okay, so are you saying that you are as advanced than the Vietnamese monk who calmly immolated himself?




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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23430301 - 07/10/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Lol, ridiculous. Next time I see someone getting torn apart by dogs I'll make sure to inform them that their suffering is only an illusion.




It's better to put in the work before the wild dogs stage, fortunately you have had plenty of forewarning that you will die one day, so if you haven't got used to the idea by now it's a bit tragic.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23430316 - 07/10/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

viktor said:
I'm not sure why you're going on about blame. I can't see how that comes into it in any way.

You can only suffer if you identify with the illusion. That's true even of someone being torn apart by wild dogs.

If you say "But suffering is reasonable under those circumstances" then it's clear that you do not understand what suffering is or what ultimately causes it.




Okay, so are you saying that you are as advanced than the Vietnamese monk who calmly immolated himself?







Protip: that guy isn't 'advanced', he just has a lack of being fucked in the head. That is to say, he has not regressed, unlike everyone else.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23430324 - 07/10/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:archiebunker:


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23430591 - 07/10/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Protip: that guy isn't 'advanced', he just has a lack of being fucked in the head. That is to say, he has not regressed, unlike everyone else.




I think it's more realistic to posit that some people suffer and some people don't.  To dismiss any creature that is not enlightened enough not to suffer seems silly to me.  Perhaps in a perfect world our "regressions" would be reversed.  This is not that world.  Your pronouncements seem supercilious.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23431072 - 07/11/16 02:00 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Nah

Suffering comes from wanting things, that's all there is to it.

The monk in the image above simply doesn't want to be not on fire.

All denial of the simplicity of it is neurosis.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23431187 - 07/11/16 03:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Many animals are quite complex. That doesn't mean they can engage in anything resembling "human-style rational thought" which is dependent on the use of human language. Nor does it mean that they can understand human created concepts expressed in human language.




Some animals have a complex enough brain that they are capable of resembling human-style rational and thought. A parrot named Alex that was part of a 21 year experiment went through a training program that taught him to differentiate between friend and foe with the model/rival training technique.
http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-behavior-and-training/bird-training/model-rival-technique-african-greys.aspx

A parrot possessing human-style rational depends upon it's ability to distinguish multiple perspectives of a situation. 

It seems the ability to conceptualise is more effective at training animals than trying to teach them a particular language.


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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor]
    #23431600 - 07/11/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Nah

Suffering comes from wanting things, that's all there is to it.

The monk in the image above simply doesn't want to be not on fire.

All denial of the simplicity of it is neurosis.




You have an interesting attitude.  'ppreciate the discussion. :thumbup:


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