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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416582 - 07/06/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Please explain to me how a dog can understand human psychology via smells and barks. This should be interesting.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416604 - 07/06/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Please explain to me how a dog can understand human psychology via smells and barks. This should be interesting.




Booooooooom - fucking shambled


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full blown human


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Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
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Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens] * 2
    #23416625 - 07/06/16 11:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Please explain to me how a dog can understand human psychology via smells and barks. This should be interesting.




Try reading this for a start: https://www.doghealth.com/how-and-why/how-dogs-sense-emotions

It's clear you know very little about dogs. That's alright. It's even alright to claim that because you know very little about dogs then you must have won the argument.

Don't mistake your inability to appreciate the intelligence of other beings to mean that those beings are not intelligent.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416709 - 07/06/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, now explain to me how a dog being able to sense emotions via non-verbal cues equates to this:

Quote:

A dog would look at all the psychological damage humans go through trying to breed and would think "fuck that".




How would the dog conceptualize this psychological damage? How would the dog connect that psychological damage to attempts to breed? Who's to say that the dog even understands those emotions in any significant way. The dog could easily be responding to those emotions based solely on the consequences to the dog as indicated in that article when they say "At some point in history, early dogs learned to decode human nonverbal language. The better they anticipated our thoughts and feelings, the more they were rewarded with food, shelter and affection."

There is also the fact that emotions =/= psychology. Psychology is a theoretical complex of concepts that are expressed via human language. Dogs do not understand this.

Quote:

Don't mistake your inability to appreciate the intelligence of other beings to mean that those beings are not intelligent.




I never said other animals aren't intelligent. To go all the way back to when I first responded to you, you said this:

Quote:

Maybe the rest of the animal world is too intelligent to get caught in human-style rational thought




Which is total nonsense. Non-human animals can't engage in human style rational thought. It's not as if they got a taste and thought nah we'll just go back to base instinct and much less complex intelligence. Ridiculous.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23416713 - 07/06/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

In my experience, dogs can sense quite a bit about their humans.  Dogs are also excellent judges of character.  Dogs are actually quite complex.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23416725 - 07/06/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Many animals are quite complex. That doesn't mean they can engage in anything resembling "human-style rational thought" which is dependent on the use of human language. Nor does it mean that they can understand human created concepts expressed in human language.


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Offlinedeff
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #23416738 - 07/06/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

maybe there are more intuitive ways to understand things that do not rely on the use of internalized language. if so, maybe our strong conditioning towards language blocks us from this more intuitive faculty :smile: with that in mind, I really do not think we can place limits on what a dog or other animal can know or experience, without having experienced being that dog/animal ourselves


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23416739 - 07/06/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that is likely true, but I would also say that dogs are generally savvier than they get credit for -- the smart ones, anyway.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: deff]
    #23416835 - 07/06/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
maybe there are more intuitive ways to understand things that do not rely on the use of internalized language. if so, maybe our strong conditioning towards language blocks us from this more intuitive faculty :smile: with that in mind, I really do not think we can place limits on what a dog or other animal can know or experience, without having experienced being that dog/animal ourselves




Language is the most complex form of communication. It isn't a coincidence that we are able to communicate complex ideas through language and that we are so successful as a species. We can most certainly know for sure that neither dogs nor any other non-human animal understands psychology. They do not understand human language and psychological theories are expressed in human language. There is no possible way they could understand. Go pick up some psychology textbooks and read them to your dog. When you come back here with a treatise written by your dog, then we can talk.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Registered: 08/29/02
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23416855 - 07/06/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

My dog doesn't respect me when I'm stoned. I think she picks up on the fragmentation of my intent, and so defers to her own will to a greater extent. It's fascinating how shifts in our consciousness effect the animals we're entangled with.

Quote:

We simply can't learn to not judge one another




To the OP, I think we can learn to not judge each other, or at least to not engage with the judgements that arise, but it takes work if we've been programmed otherwise. Many are caught up with other activities of greater interest to them.

Quote:

and to just be free and unburdened by ignorance.




Would you care to expand on this? Do you mean free of ignorance, or unburdened by the fact of our ignorance? I find ignorance to be our natural state, but the term can also refer to a deliberate disregard for information. I'm curious to know how you're using it here.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #23416869 - 07/06/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

reminds me of the one time I went to spend time with my guinea pig while on mushrooms - he was terrified of me, as if he didn't recognize me at all. seemed like he definitely noticed the change in the state of my mind / behaviour / energy :smile:


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: deff]
    #23417155 - 07/06/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Eyes. Your eyes. You probably looked like someone else.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlinebass head
Oh... Nice.
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Registered: 04/16/14
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23428567 - 07/10/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

there are certain people that rely on the misery of others in order to feel like they're alive.  this is true.  and it's disturbing.


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Steal your bass right off your head.  :stoner:


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bass head]
    #23428643 - 07/10/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

They were probably abused in some way in early life.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: bass head]
    #23428704 - 07/10/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bass head said:
there are certain people that rely on the misery of others in order to feel like they're alive.  this is true.  and it's disturbing.




What's far more disturbing to me is that a dominatrix who makes money inflicting pain to someone actually willing to pay for it and "enjoy" it.

I don't understand tattoos or piercings for this same reason.  Of course the tattoo guy doesn't likely really want to inflict maximum pain, but why someone will sit there to be marred and scarred and marked for life is beyond me.  One guy I met does tattoo removal for a living, his motto is something like "get off to a clean start".  Probably hurts when he lasers that bad tat off.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23428739 - 07/10/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
beyond me.



A lot is. :shrug:


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As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429017 - 07/10/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
beyond me.



A lot is. :shrug:




Still think you are God?



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429034 - 07/10/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not surprised that's the best you could come up with.


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As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Loc: Building 7
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23429054 - 07/10/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
I'm not surprised that's the best you could come up with.




Delusional, as usual.  And expects Sympathy from others when this way? 

Sorry, it don't work that way.  One day, you'll really figure that out.  Or not.  The squeaky wheel may get the grease, but in the interim nobody wants to hear it.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Is humanity just a bunch of people making themselves and everyone else miserable? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429080 - 07/10/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Who am I thinking of?

Old, bitter, conspiracy nutter.


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As far as I assume to know...


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