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MrPeanutButta
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Yeast After G2G
#23413511 - 07/05/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hello All,
I had two fully colonized rye bags which have been spawned to a manure based compost. They were given one week to consolidate (Maybe not quite enough time) and then placed into fruiting conditions. They seem to be pretty healthy, but I am kind of shocked that they are and this is why...
During the spawn to bulk process I also performed a g2g of some of the rye from the bags into prepped and sterilized WBS quart jars. Admittedly I rushed and did not follow sterile technique like I should have.
I completed the process in a bathroom that had been cleaned up and down, with the AC off, sprayed with Lysol everywhere. Then I would barely open a WBS jar and transfer a bit of the rye over (Used gloved hands and sprayed with Lysol between each one...this is most likely where I messed up and should have used a flamed spoon at minimum) and resealed then a small shake.
Long story short, the trays are looking good, but every single WBS jar has been contaminated with yeast. How does that happen? Does that mean the jars were improperly prepped to begin with? How do I end up with yeast in my WBS, but not in the trays? Is it because the trays are more contam resistent due to more spawn and so it beat it out?
I am just trying to get back up to speed with this stuff, and need to follow everything step by step like I used to and everything will be fine. I have been fine in the past being a bit lazy, but not this time haha.
Edit: Or even worse, do I have yeast in my trays that I just cannot see and they won't end up producing any fruit? Ughh...I need to step my game up. I just used to feel like it all worked without having to worry now I have a problem every step of the way.
Last thing I will add. Someone else prepped the WBS jars. They did not soak the bird seed. They just simmered and then pc'd. The thing is though that the jars sat for 2 weeks without contaminating, so I would think it happened during my g2g due to no flamed spoon.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/05/16 11:56 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Most yeast comes from cultivator error. In your case it's from doing open air G2G in a bathroom. Use an SAB next time, no spoon, just from the doner jar to receiving jars all in the box.
Open air = fail. I don't give a fuck how much lysol you spray. In fact lysol blows.
Edit, g2g from bag to jar is backward and I would never recommend that unless you were using a large flowhood. You need to start using some proven methods.
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MrPeanutButta
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Thank you for your feedback. I have used proven methods in the past and have had success. I have also not used those methods and had success as well. I will be using a still air box next time.
As for going from bag to jar, I had to do it that way. I inoculated the bags and then received prepped WBS jars from a friend who didn't want to use them. I had no choice other than to go from bag to jar.
This next round I am going multispore to bags and a few jars which will become grain liquid cultures. That way I won't be doing any transfers that require a jar to be opened. I am also going to inoculate a few WBS jars that could be used for g2g with my SAB as well.
This was just an initial albeit hasty push back into the process. I had near 100% success rates in the past and I got sloppy. Now I am going to tighten it back up because I got burned.
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Pastywhyte
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You always have a choice. You can do things correctly or you can not do them. It's simple.
Think of it like this, you could simply toss the WBS and not use it. That would be a waste of WBS but you would have saved the bulk material that was then wasted on a failed grow. Could have also used the doner grain assuming it was clean for a successful grow. You would have been out some WBS but, you would have not wasted bulk material, the time to prep it, and still have some fruits in hand.
Sounds like your still on track with risky plans. MS solution to bags and ms to make GLC masters are both pretty big risks to take in order to get around cutting 2 armholes in a plastic box. Your call.
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MrPeanutButta
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I am going to be using a still air box from here on out. The trays still look good to me, so Im hoping that goes okay.
I didn't mean I didn't have the choice to completely hold off on the WBS. I am saying that due to the order of events that the jars came after the bags.
When you spawn to bulk do you use a still air box? I haven't in the past with zero problems, but now I am going to be super paranoid about contams. I mean I appreciate your feedback, but no need to drive it home...I understand I was cutting corners. I had never had to pay for it before now I am. All that equals is that I will proceed as I should have in the first place.
Edit: Are you saying MS to bags and for GLC masters are risky from a success standpoint? I can see that... Would you suggest MS to jar and then create GLC using sterile water? Then after GLC is established inoculate bags? I'm following you, but i've always read that is how you create a GLC. Or are you saying GLC's are risky/suck period?
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/05/16 01:17 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Spawning can be done in open air with no problems. The grain is already colonized by that point. I personally dislike spores to grain. For me spores go on agar where the culture is confirmed to be clean. Once I am sure it's clean, it can then go to grain. But I don't grow with spores much anyways. Once you get some good clones or isolates on agar you just use those and get predictable results.
Like grain, agar is inoculated and transferred in the SAB always. Only when you spawn to bulk is it safe to expand in open air.
GLC is risky because even well sterilized grain has some latent bacteria in it. Last GLC I made tested bacterial on agar. I still used it and it did okay, but it's bad practice. Bacteria in spawn is a mold vector and sooner or later will catch up with you. If I was to make a GLC I would use several agar wedges to inoculate the grain and colonize it as fast as possible.
MS solution to grain can work. Best way to do that is to just use a few drops to several masters. Then choose the fastest and best looking one and g2g it. Spawn the others. This is not foolproof but will greatly minimize contams. But agar is still king because you can choose not only clean growth, but limit the genetics to faster healthier colonies.
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bodhisatta 
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Spawning to bulk isn't a sterile process so no SAB. Fruiting isn't sterile either.
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MrPeanutButta
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I know....I need to start using agar. It is something I have always resisted because it was an unknown and I didn't have the SAB, but I agree that it would be worth it and minimize mistakes and therefore waste.
For this round I will have to go with GLC to the bags because the bags are already prepped and sealed. I just need to slow down and do this the right way. Most likely I will try to get a clone if these trays fruit and transfer to agar since I will have a SAB.
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MrPeanutButta
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That is how I have always treated it in the past. I guess what scares me is that I have yeast in the jars and attempted the open air g2g at the same time as spawning to bulk.
The bulk is pasteurized manure based compost. Even though spawning to bulk is fine open air I was afraid that somehow a contaminant could have found the manure/compost and caused issues. That isn't how it is looking though...it looks very healthy to me.
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bodhisatta 
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Manure compost gets pasteurization because contaminants will find their way in during spawning and you don't want them to cause problems
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MrPeanutButta
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Last question for you. What would you use in place of Lysol when prepping a SAB?
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



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spacechildo
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ugh, bleach  water with a drop of dish soap for me!
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bodhisatta 
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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: Last question for you. What would you use in place of Lysol when prepping a SAB?
just water in a spray bottle with a single drop of dish soap. you don't need to sanitize or try to sterilize the inside of a SAB that's now how they work.
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MrPeanutButta
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I am asking about sterilizing foreign objects that you place into the SAB. I know the inside of the SAB doesn't need much. I'm referring to a jar for example that has been incubating and exposed to contams.
Edit: Alright I checked out that tek and did some reading and I feel comfortable with everything except for the concept of flaming outside of the SAB and then going back in to work. It looks like that doesn't cause any issues if everything else is good to go. As far as the objects inside of the box it looks like I just need to add the extra step of wiping them down with iso alcohol or bleach water before they go into the SAB.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/05/16 07:18 PM)
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MrPeanutButta
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Thanks for the help everyone!
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spacechildo
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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: I am asking about sterilizing foreign objects that you place into the SAB. I know the inside of the SAB doesn't need much. I'm referring to a jar for example that has been incubating and exposed to contams.
Edit: Alright I checked out that tek and did some reading and I feel comfortable with everything except for the concept of flaming outside of the SAB and then going back in to work. It looks like that doesn't cause any issues if everything else is good to go. As far as the objects inside of the box it looks like I just need to add the extra step of wiping them down with iso alcohol or bleach water before they go into the SAB.
I wipe master jars with 70% ISO, receiving jars usually goes straight from the PC to the SAB. anything that can be flamed red hot, flame it. flaming outside the sab works, the tools are still hot. dont hover hands over open work and move smoothly. pretty much it.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: I am asking about sterilizing foreign objects that you place into the SAB. I know the inside of the SAB doesn't need much. I'm referring to a jar for example that has been incubating and exposed to contams.
Edit: Alright I checked out that tek and did some reading and I feel comfortable with everything except for the concept of flaming outside of the SAB and then going back in to work. It looks like that doesn't cause any issues if everything else is good to go. As far as the objects inside of the box it looks like I just need to add the extra step of wiping them down with iso alcohol or bleach water before they go into the SAB.
I wipe master jars with 70% ISO, receiving jars usually goes straight from the PC to the SAB. anything that can be flamed red hot, flame it. flaming outside the sab works, the tools are still hot. dont hover hands over open work and move smoothly. pretty much it.
Thanks for the advice. When I think back to my previous successful grows, I must admit that I was quite a bit more thorough. This experience and this thread among a few others have really helped me to snap out of it. I didn't get into this to cut corners...I got into this because I like a challenge and I like to be detail oriented. I don't need to be obsessive, but I at least need to follow sterile tech.
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MrPeanutButta
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Well, my trays are still looking good but no fruits yet (9 days so far). I did not give them enough time to fully colonize the bulk. Like I said they look good though, so hopefully i'll see something over the next week. I have definitely had mono tubs that took this long a few times.
I have prepared everything I need to push forward including my SAB. I have some spore syringes as well, but I am actually thinking about trying to clone instead if these trays come through. My plan is to use Cloneufc's cloning tek to agar. Then I will complete a few more transfers to further isolate. Next I will transfer to grain (either WBS or Popcorn). I will have a few grain jars for g2g and a glc.
The glc will be used to inoculate my rye bags. I know g2g would be preferable, but the rye bags are already prepped and sealed. My other option would be to start from MS again. I think the main thing I want to figure out is how to keep masters for long periods of time. This is not supposed to be big...it's more experimental and I like variety.
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Supalemonhaze
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You should put cultures inside slants if you want to keep them for a long time. Master grain jars can be kept for a couple of weeks past 100% colonization, probably even more but it's always best to use them ASAP.
You should try LI rather than GLC, it's safer and definitely cleaner. Grains always have some bacterial endospores present after PCing and by the time the mycelium colonizes the jar, they would have already recovered or close to it.
Even with G2Gs, I always notice signs of bacteria and I PC my grains pretty well.
Wedges would be the best option, now that you have decided to start using agar, you should give those a go. They are a bit slow compared to LI, LC or g2g but they make up for that with clean inoculant. If you start inoculating jars with a routine (say, once a week), waiting for wedges to colonize your grains is not a problem since you always have something going.
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MrPeanutButta
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Well, my trays are still looking good but no fruits yet (9 days so far). I did not give them enough time to fully colonize the bulk. Like I said they look good though, so hopefully i'll see something over the next week. I have definitely had mono tubs that took this long a few times.
I have prepared everything I need to push forward including my SAB. I have some spore syringes as well, but I am actually thinking about trying to clone instead if these trays come through. My plan is to use Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: You should put cultures inside slants if you want to keep them for a long time. Master grain jars can be kept for a couple of weeks past 100% colonization, probably even more but it's always best to use them ASAP.
You should try LI rather than GLC, it's safer and definitely cleaner. Grains always have some bacterial endospores present after PCing and by the time the mycelium colonizes the jar, they would have already recovered or close to it.
Even with G2Gs, I always notice signs of bacteria and I PC my grains pretty well.
Wedges would be the best option, now that you have decided to start using agar, you should give those a go. They are a bit slow compared to LI, LC or g2g but they make up for that with clean inoculant. If you start inoculating jars with a routine (say, once a week), waiting for wedges to colonize your grains is not a problem since you always have something going.
Thanks for the input. Do you have a specific LI tek you recommend? I will probably switch to wedges direct to grain next go around, but I need LI or GLC this go around.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/10/16 10:55 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
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Blended LI if you can get the stuff you need for it or blenderless if you can't/don't have time for it.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: Blended LI if you can get the stuff you need for it or blenderless if you can't/don't have time for it.
Cool. Yeah I checked both of those teks out earlier. I am not sure which one I will go with yet, but both seem viable. The only issue I see is that I will be using petri dishes that will be larger in diameter than the jar itself, so I could see that being an issue when I want to transfer to the water jar.
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Supalemonhaze
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Not a problem at all, you do have a scalpel, don't you? Just cut the plate in half or quarters and transfer the wedges to the jar, easy peasy.
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MrPeanutButta
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Yep I definitely have a scalpel now. Since this thread started I pretty much loaded up on all of the basic equipment I will need. I am actually pretty excited to start working with agar.
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MrPeanutButta
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Instead of starting a new thread I wanted to add here and hopefully get some opinions/advice. The two rye/compost trays are moving super slow, but there are a few fruits. It also seems like there is knotting all over the place like pins want to form but they just aren't.
Do I potentially have a contam issue? This is my first time using a tent rather than a monotub and I am worried that it may be dried out as the casing looks a bit dry. Of course you can also see that the myc has grown through the casing but it doesn't look like it's matted/overlay.
Any suggestions are highly appreciated. This grow has been weird for me. I changed all sorts of variables because I wanted to try new things and so far it has just led to uncertainty. Sometimes I also tend to think the worst when nothing is wrong and I just need to be patient.

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Pastywhyte
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Don't thread jack. It's rude to the OP
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Don't thread jack. It's rude to the OP 
I am the OP Pasty haha 
I probably made it seem like that wasn't the case with the wording I used. I just meant rather than start a new thread asking about my trays I would add it to this thread because it is part of the same grow.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/18/16 06:23 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Sorry bout that. I would say the trays look a smidge dry, but nothing on them suggests contam to me.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:

Sorry bout that. I would say the trays look a smidge dry, but nothing on them suggests contam to me.
It's alright haha. Thanks for protecting my thread!
Thanks for your feedback. Would you patch the casing in a situation like this? I am definitely going to avoid over misting to compensate as I know that can cause issues as well.
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MrPeanutButta
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I am thinking about applying a light casing layer. I am thinking at this point that the myc has moved super slow through the compost and that it just isn't ready to flush. Seems I should case so that it promotes a more even pinset. Like I said, I can see what seem to be knots, but they are so tiny I can't quite tell. What do you guys think based on the pics?
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Supalemonhaze
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Can't really tell with those pics. Camera is too far away. You already have pins though so you definitely have other knots in there.
I don't like to re-case once I see knots but you could give it a try if you want. I do think it's dry from what I can tell from the pics, the substrate surface needs to have small beads of moisture at all times. Once they look like they are almost gone, you re-mist. Good conditions and evaporation is key for getting the best pinset your culture is capable of.
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MrPeanutButta
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I might give it a little longer and increase my misting and fanning. If it continues to move at this rate I may re-case. Thanks Supalemon!
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MrPeanutButta
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Alright, I know it has only been a few days, but all I am seeing are the 4-5 pins maturing right now. Everything else has remained the same. The surface is starting to blue a bit. You guys pointed out that the casing looked dry. I have been misting a few times daily to help with that.
I am getting to a point where I suspect that I allowed the substrate to dry out. I don't know why I was afraid of too much humidity as I have always gotten good results with monotubs that constantly have beads of water on the surface (Lots of fanning of course) and inside of the container.
I'm thinking I might need to dunk and re case. It still looks relatively healthy...just no activity.
Edit: After doing some reading I may just recase rather than dunk. I have dunked monotubs in the past with some success, but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/22/16 02:45 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
It does? What about the people who get multiple flushes from their subs, dunking inbetween each flush? Seems to me that clean spawn is what will keep your sub healthy.
Also, fanning is pretty useless, getting your tub dialed in properly is where it's at.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
It does? What about the people who get multiple flushes from their subs, dunking inbetween each flush? Seems to me that clean spawn is what will keep your sub healthy.
Also, fanning is pretty useless, getting your tub dialed in properly is where it's at.
I'm basing what I'm saying here off of other threads i've read. As I stated, I have had success with dunking in the past. I just haven't ever dunked before the first flush. That's why I'm wanting to get some opinions...what i'm saying in my post is just conjecture.
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Supalemonhaze
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Dunking will not cause contams, if you get contams before/around/right after your first flush, chances are your spawn was dirty. Dunking before the first flush is probably not going to help you that much if you hydrated the bulk to proper field capacity. Try lifting the tub to see if it's light, if it is, pour a quart or so of water down the side of your sub, even on top will help if you don't have any pins present. After a couple of hours, drain the leftover water that wasn't absorbed.
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Inocuole
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Re-casing stuff will cause more contams than dunking..
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spacechildo
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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: Edit: After doing some reading I may just recase rather than dunk. I have dunked monotubs in the past with some success, but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
WTF have you been reading? got a link?
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Supalemonhaze
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It's this really good tek made ~15 years ago. The OP says that it works like a charm
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spacechildo
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"I dunked my sub but nothing happened, then I re-cased and mushrooms grew within 2 hrs wehuuu musta been the recasing!"
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Supalemonhaze
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MrPeanutButta
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You guys do know what conjecture is right? I'm saying that I HAVE HAD SUCCESS with dunking in the past. I just started reading and came across some threads that said dunking casings can increase chances of contams.
I have never had dunking increase contams, but then again I have never dunked before a first flush. The reason I would dunk is because it is possible that my trays have become dry due to me switching to a tent instead of using monotubs which have never failed me in the past.
My goodness guys, I never used to have people give me this hard of time on this forum and I can tell you this...I am just trying to get some extra opinions because I respect you all, but I know how to run a successful grow. I'm not understanding why the flaming in this thread?
I don't think you are reading my posts and fully understanding that I am just trying to have a discussion. Not once in this thread have I disagreed with advice given, I have been thankful for each reply, and I haven't promoted anything that would harm other growers, so what gives?
Edit: I guess I have completely lost my ability to interpret tongue in cheek humor...haha
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/23/16 10:31 AM)
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spacechildo
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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: My goodness guys, I never used to have people give me this hard of time on this forum
I don't think you are reading my posts and fully understanding that I am just trying to have a discussion.
Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: Edit: After doing some reading I may just recase rather than dunk. I have dunked monotubs in the past with some success, but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
WTF have you been reading? got a link?
as you see we're laughing at the stuff you've read, not you for reading it. we've read tons of BS ourselves, and some is hysterically funny because its just so wrong.
Got that link? cause recasing is bad while dunking is good! having water logged subs sit without any fresh air on the other hand is not.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: Edit: After doing some reading I may just recase rather than dunk. I have dunked monotubs in the past with some success, but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
WTF have you been reading? got a link?
I will look for them, but they were scattered around. Mostly I kept seeing people saying that dunking a casing is unnecessary, dunking can cause increased chance for contams, etc. I have never had an issue with it, but I have been on a long break. In this specific situation where my sub seems to be drying out before a flush I am contemplating dunking. Then when I went to go do some research I found all of the people talking about it like it is either unnecessary or could even lead to problems.
What some of the threads were saying is that you shouldn't have to dunk, but rather just mist your casing heavily and that it would transfer enough moisture back in the sub to suffice without dunking. Here is a link to one such thread.
https://mycotopia.net/topic/42769-dunk-or-not-before-first-flush/
Hell for all I know you guys might tell me myctopia is a terrible place to look for info. The fact is that I base my decisions on the replies I get from experts like yourselves and am never resistant to it. That's why I am confused by the condescending responses. I respect you all and am just asking for advice.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Quote:
Flaming, definition:
An online argument that becomes nasty or derisive, where insulting a party to the discussion takes precedence over the objective merits of one side or another
Nope, not what's happening here.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: My goodness guys, I never used to have people give me this hard of time on this forum
I don't think you are reading my posts and fully understanding that I am just trying to have a discussion.
Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said: Edit: After doing some reading I may just recase rather than dunk. I have dunked monotubs in the past with some success, but I am sure it increases chances for contams.
WTF have you been reading? got a link?
as you see we're laughing at the stuff you've read, not you for reading it. we've read tons of BS ourselves, and some is hysterically funny because its just so wrong.
Got that link? cause recasing is bad while dunking is good! having water logged subs sit without any fresh air on the other hand is not.
Okay well then I feel dumb. I must just be misinterpreting haha. Right that's the conclusion I have drawn since I made that last post. I am actually going to dunk without recasing. I have been trying to reintroduce moisture through some misting, but it is not going to be enough. I effed up and dried this sub out. Monotubs were way easier to maintain perfect conditions in my past experience.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:
Flaming, definition:
An online argument that becomes nasty or derisive, where insulting a party to the discussion takes precedence over the objective merits of one side or another
Nope, not what's happening here.
Alright well then I'm just being sensitive then lol. Have I lost my sense of humor?....not good.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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They are just messing around. No one here wants anything but for you to pull off the best grow you can. Problem is that I think we are too used to kids coming in here arguing with everything they are told, offering bad advice etc.
Careful with drawing conclusions, they can be misleading and corrolation is not causation. We see that a lot. People do something completely uncontrolled, draw conclusions, then spread it around like the gospel. Bad information is considered and enemy here and will be crushed without mercy.
I for one wish you well. Please keep us updated with your progress
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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yes mycotopia sucks
make sure to search for new info only, use the search engine, not just the bar, choose 3-4yr old posts max, tick the TC box to avoid noobs just spewing bad info and learn how to spot the shit posters from good advice givers.
I was asking for the link because I was feeling sure it was some random noob 10 yrs ago or something. or mycotopia
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: They are just messing around. No one here wants anything but for you to pull off the best grow you can. Problem is that I think we are too used to kids coming in here arguing with everything they are told, offering bad advice etc.
Careful with drawing conclusions, they can be misleading and corrolation is not causation. We see that a lot. People do something completely uncontrolled, draw conclusions, then spread it around like the gospel. Bad information is considered and enemy here and will be crushed without mercy.
I for one wish you well. Please keep us updated with your progress 
I know....you are totally right. Even just making the comment "I guess that can increase the chances of contams" could easily confuse someone who is brand new to this. If I'm not sure moving forward I will ask the question instead of making a statement.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
spacechildo said: yes mycotopia sucks
make sure to search for new info only, use the search engine, not just the bar, choose 3-4yr old posts max, tick the TC box to avoid noobs just spewing bad info and learn how to spot the shit posters from good advice givers.
I was asking for the link because I was feeling sure it was some random noob 10 yrs ago or something. or mycotopia 
Lol well fair enough. I did get that feeling when I was reading some of the other threads over there. Trust me, I know Shroomery is the best source of info. Why I ever left this forum and this hobby is beyond me. I used to be really into it, and know all of this stuff like the back of my hand. I have based most everything I do on RR's advice. For whatever reason it was not like riding a bike for me. I came back and oversimplified and half assed. Now i'm back on track, but trying to get these trays where they need to be.
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Pastywhyte
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Check out this link. I know your not new or suggesting you are guilty of doing any of these things but, it will give you an idea of what the regular posters here are about. We are mostly nerds and geeks who are super anal about precise information and delivery of that information. We may come off as rude to those not used to us but it's more that we are too busy geeking out to worry about delivering that message with smilies or a gentle touch.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22861379
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Check out this link. I know your not new or suggesting you are guilty of doing any of these things but, it will give you an idea of what the regular posters here are about. We are mostly nerds and geeks who are super anal about precise information and delivery of that information. We may come off as rude to those not used to us but it's more that we are too busy geeking out to worry about delivering that message with smilies or a gentle touch.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22861379
I just read it...good post. Trust me I get it. I am an app dev product manager...my whole world is based on precision and geekery haha. I just smoke a lot of weed lately and it has kind of chilled out my OCD a bit...possibly too much.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/23/16 10:51 AM)
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Psychedel.EXE
AKA Old Uncle Nutty



Registered: 07/04/16
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Hey OP... if I may ask, how long of a break did you take from cultivation?
--------------------
...
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Psychedel.EXE said: Hey OP... if I may ask, how long of a break did you take from cultivation?
I took a 4 year break. I had a few life events that contributed...grandpa passed away from cancer, I graduated from college, and then my wife left me haha. Somehow I just stopped and almost forgot about it for a while. I just happened to have a really old EQ spore syringe that I forgot about in the fridge that had fallen behind one of the chiller drawers. When I found it I got the urge to give it another go.
Edit: Just to add...everything is coming back to me very quickly now. It's not so much that I forgot all of the information, but rather how to tactically apply that information and how important it is to follow every detail of each tek. If you cut corners in any way you will most likely have problems arise and all of the work you put into it will be a waste.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/23/16 12:30 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Once you get the feel of why teks are outlined the way they are, an understanding of the vectors involved, you won't need a tek. You can then extrapolate and work on the fly.
It gets easier the more you do.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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^ Troof
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MrPeanutButta
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Re: Yeast After G2G [Re: Inocuole]
#23471816 - 07/24/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alright guys I finally found the other thread that led to the misdirection:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2129821/fpart/all/vc/1
Notice the back and forth between Anno and Starter. Long story short last night I picked off the immature fruit and then poured a quart of water on top of and around the sides of my casing trays.
I then poured out the rest and rinsed off the top with some tap water. I didn't force anything but let the existing casing layer wash off into the sink. I basically want to try to pin this thing uncased at this point. If I still have issues then I might recase if I never get any activity.
I can see what Anno is saying in that thread if your sub and casing never dried out, but in my case it did dry out and I don't think misting would be sufficient.
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spacechildo
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that link is 12 yrs old and most pics there are of MJ  We've sure come a long way! "casings" we just call trays now, less confusion. Not really sure where it says to recase or that dunking causes contams tho?
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
spacechildo said: that link is 12 yrs old and most pics there are of MJ  We've sure come a long way! "casings" we just call trays now, less confusion. Not really sure where it says to recase or that dunking causes contams tho? 
The contams part was me fusing this thread with the thread from Mycotopia sort of like a pros and cons analysis. I thought well if this thread says you should just mist and this thread says it can increase contams to dunk...maybe I should second guess what I have done in the past and recase instead of dunk.
In other words, I found two threads that were questioning dunking and I brought opinions from both threads into this thread. The biggest aha moment for me here is the time aspect. Shroomery is probably one of few places online where the information actually does get collectively smarter/more accurate over time since the members police bad information.
On other forums a thread from 10 years ago may still very well be more valid than a thread from today because they don't keep it clean.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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The beautiful thing about a casing layer is that it's the one that will dry out first. The sub needs to be dunked/bottom watered in order to rehydrate when it's dry since it's so densely colonized by the mycelium but a proper casing layer is only partially colonized. This makes it hydrate easily with misting alone.
Stick to newer stuff to avoid this type of inaccurate info. Some folks don't even dunk between the 1st and 2nd flushes, a heavy misting will do just as good in most cases.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: The beautiful thing about a casing layer is that it's the one that will dry out first. The sub needs to be dunked/bottom watered in order to rehydrate when it's dry since it's so densely colonized by the mycelium but a proper casing layer is only partially colonized. This makes it hydrate easily with misting alone.
Stick to newer stuff to avoid this type of inaccurate info. Some folks don't even dunk between the 1st and 2nd flushes, a heavy misting will do just as good in most cases.
Agreed. If I would have handled it right from the beginning the casing would have been sufficient. Hopefully the short dunk I did last night will help turn things around. I like the fact that I only dunked for a few hours in this specific scenario.
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MrPeanutButta
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Alright...this is starting to frustrate me. I have never had this many issues in the past. It could just be that I switched from using monotubs to a tent with a coolmist I suppose. Maybe someone can help diagnose. Here is a log of what has happened so far:
- A little over 3 weeks ago I introduced the rye/compost trays with casing to fruiting conditions in a small grow tent. - Mesh viewing windows were closed and opened at various points of the day to allow for more FAE - Coolmist humidifier was running inside the tent at all times (Probably way too much airflow.) - Visible mist ultrasonic on a timer every 30 minutes (This unit has a dial to control how much mist)
Note: I know that there are mistakes I made above including too much air movement in the tent (especially when coupled with open viewing windows), not misting, etc. It was always wet inside the tent due to the temp reduction caused by the interior cool mist which made the ultrasonic mist condense. Long story short, I was experimenting and I knew I was experimenting...probably shouldn't have. I realized they were too dry and then:
- Removed interior coolmist - Rinsed off casing layer and dunked for two hours - Placed back into fruiting conditions - Started misting multiple times a day (fine mist letting it settle on the surface) - Turned up ultrasonic to maintain 90%+ humidity on the hygrometer (I have read that these can be misleading) - Noticed some pins and thought the dunk had worked - Pins aborted (I believe these were actually from the first "flush") - Just removed aborts and placed back into fruiting conditions
It still looks too dry. At this point I feel like I need to do a full dunk, but why is it so difficult to get the conditions right? People successfully use this setup all the time...why is it giving me so many issues? Do you guys have suggestions? Should I do a full dunk? If I can't get it to work this way I will just go back to my tried and true.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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A picture's worth a thousand words, and you're about 650 words short. Why not just make it easy for us?
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MrPeanutButta
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Re: Yeast After G2G [Re: Inocuole]
#23489077 - 07/29/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I will upload some pics asap.
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MrPeanutButta
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Alright here are some pics:



Let me know if you need a different angle or closer etc. I appreciate everyone's help with this.
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Inocuole
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Definitely looks off. Why did you switch to this if you were using monos and they worked? A greenhouse is generally considered more difficult to dial in so, if you aren't intimately familiar with reading the substrate it could be a long arduous path to success.
It looks simultaneously too wet and somewhat dry, like it's been through both recently. If you're sure it's not waterlogged just dunk it and leave it alone for a while.
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MrPeanutButta
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Re: Yeast After G2G [Re: Inocuole]
#23489158 - 07/29/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Definitely looks off. Why did you switch to this if you were using monos and they worked? A greenhouse is generally considered more difficult to dial in so, if you aren't intimately familiar with reading the substrate it could be a long arduous path to success.
It looks simultaneously too wet and somewhat dry, like it's been through both recently. If you're sure it's not waterlogged just dunk it and leave it alone for a while.
I switched to experiment...just wanted to give it a go. I just didn't figure I would have so many issues. This myc has been so slow since day one though and is MS...that could have some affect here.
If it fails it isn't the end of the world in my case, although I would love to have a successful go again. I might just switch back to monotubs for my next run. I suppose it could be waterlogged and I'm reading it as dry...it just doesn't seem like that is the case. I am used to seeing a little bit of softness/fuzziness when it is healthy. This looks kind of tough in person.
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MrPeanutButta
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Wanted to add one more pic. I realized that the 3rd pic above looks worse than it really does in person. I turned off the flash so it looks more natural.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said:
Quote:
Inocuole said: Definitely looks off. Why did you switch to this if you were using monos and they worked? A greenhouse is generally considered more difficult to dial in so, if you aren't intimately familiar with reading the substrate it could be a long arduous path to success.
It looks simultaneously too wet and somewhat dry, like it's been through both recently. If you're sure it's not waterlogged just dunk it and leave it alone for a while.
I switched to experiment..
What was your hypothesis?
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said:
Quote:
Inocuole said: Definitely looks off. Why did you switch to this if you were using monos and they worked? A greenhouse is generally considered more difficult to dial in so, if you aren't intimately familiar with reading the substrate it could be a long arduous path to success.
It looks simultaneously too wet and somewhat dry, like it's been through both recently. If you're sure it's not waterlogged just dunk it and leave it alone for a while.
I switched to experiment..
What was your hypothesis?
How did I know someone was going to say something like that? How about instead of experiment I just say "Tried something different".
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Quote:
MrPeanutButta said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
MrPeanutButta said:
Quote:
Inocuole said: Definitely looks off. Why did you switch to this if you were using monos and they worked? A greenhouse is generally considered more difficult to dial in so, if you aren't intimately familiar with reading the substrate it could be a long arduous path to success.
It looks simultaneously too wet and somewhat dry, like it's been through both recently. If you're sure it's not waterlogged just dunk it and leave it alone for a while.
I switched to experiment..
What was your hypothesis?
How did I know someone was going to say something like that? How about instead of experiment I just say "Tried something different".
Sorry man I just tire of seeing that word used. It's like the whipping boy of every ill conceived plan ever attempted. It's at the point where if I do a side by side with controls I call it a side by side with controls, simply cause I cannot bear to use that word.
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MrPeanutButta
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Fair enough lol. I had the feeling when I typed it out. Trust me, I would never call the results a finding haha.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Sorry man I just tire of seeing that word used. It's like the whipping boy of every ill conceived plan ever attempted. It's at the point where if I do a side by side with controls I call it a side by side with controls, simply cause I cannot bear to use that word.

That word aside, do you have any thoughts on the pics I posted up? From my experience they definitely don't look like they are a loss, I'm just having trouble getting it back on track. Maybe I won't be able to recover...if not i'll just move on and learn from my mistakes.
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Pastywhyte
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Looks like conditions need improving. Not much more can be said. They might bounce back. They might just trich out and die. All you can do is dial in better and hope.
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MrPeanutButta
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Yeah I agree. I strayed from what I knew and this is the consequence. At this point I will just keep pushing forward to see if I can dial in the proper environment. If I can't I will just switch back to tubs for now.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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While I agree that the word "experiment" is far too often used after people are told that they are doing something wrong, I wouldn't boycott it . One could simply experiment to see what methods/materials work best for him, given that the method/materials being switched are commonly used.
For example, people usually dial in their tubs either with the tight/loose poly or med poly all around. One could experiment with one after using the other exclusively in the past to see which works best for him. I see that as an acceptable use of the word. I think OP's use of the word is acceptable as well, after all, he is experimenting with GH's after using monotubs successfully (from what I can gather from his posts) just to see if one works better for his needs than the other.
When someone attempts one of those of "experiments" using a mushroom cap positioned instead of the lid on top of an LC jar however, well... I can stop right there probably, you all know what I'm about to say. All I would do in this case is blame the OP for the retardedness of his method, rather than the phrasing he used The word "experimentation" seems to be a good way to escape facepalms for some, making it worse in the end.
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Inocuole
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I guess. Experimental music and sexual experimentation don't require a hypothesis.
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MrPeanutButta
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Re: Yeast After G2G [Re: Inocuole]
#23492680 - 07/30/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think if you guys knew me in person it would calm your thoughts on my individual use of the word. Trust me I know there are a lot of immature kids doing this that throw it around all of the time either as a way of sounding official or as you pointed out to explain away ideas that are just flat out stupid.
I believe that I had a string of threads and posts over the past couple of months that have projected me in this light. The fact is that I am just a busy guy who took a long break and lost my groove. The past month has been like muscle memory...all of your responses have triggered memory recall from my past experience.
I can totally respect you all trying to keep this forum clean and promoting a more serious tone when it comes to cultivating mushrooms. Without some patrolling this site could easily become a bunch of 21 year old Spicoli's who just want to do it because it's cool, or because they want to rake in the cash.
I will try to make sure with each post that I am promoting the best environment for learning and advancement, so that all of the newbs who are serious have a place that they can trust will have accurate information.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/30/16 01:50 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Hey man its all gravey
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MrPeanutButta
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Well....one of the trays triched out. They have both been scrapped. I have 6 quarts incubating from MS right now. Needless to say I will be going with monotubs this go around. Live and learn...maybe i'll try a GH again at some point, but I need some success this next run for morale.
Edit: Btw, I caught it before it turned green, so that's good. Also, the GH was in a different area than the tubs will be...another good thing.
Edited by MrPeanutButta (07/31/16 02:14 PM)
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MrPeanutButta
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Alright I now have my two mono tubs going....one is behind the other by about a week. I didn't mist one of the tubs enough because I had to leave on business and so it is demonstrating some signs of that stress like some bluing in certain areas and some off white areas as well. I have upped my misting by quite a bit...it is ridiculously dry here.
Just curious to see how you guys would deal with this one. It still smells and looks relatively healthy except for the blue spots (doesn't rub off like trich) and the slight off white color.
Strangely I found another thread here where someone was saying Myc can get that off white look when it is maturing? To me it just looks dried out and possibly dead. Does anyone ever "scrape" or remove sections of the Myc's surface? That might be a stupid question but I'm just curious.
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Pastywhyte
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Don't scrape. Need pics to say more.
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MrPeanutButta
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Okay I will take some and post up this afternoon.
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MrPeanutButta
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Alright here are some pics. Don't be too hard on me haha. I guess I just used to have more time to devote or something. I honestly have had many successful mono tub grows...it has to be that I had to leave them when I went out of town. Also, it is possible that the verm wasn't moist enough...I brought it to field capacity. However, it is so dry here that it is possible the whole thing dried out over the course of 3 days.
I can't tell if it is just badly bruised due to drying or if the off white spots are bacterial. It doesn't smell bad, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything at this point. At this point I'm wondering if I should flip it over and just hope that it gives one flush. Any advice is appreciated.
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Pastywhyte
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Yeah that doesn't look healthy at all. Bacteria for sure, and the bruising indicates it dried out. Flipping it might ensure a better first flush but it would probably also be the only flush. Tho I'm not sure how many a tub like that could have anyways. One might be the best you can hope for.
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Pastywhyte
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Also when people tell me they had many successful grows it tells me that they still haven't grown enough to understand that yesterday's success has no bearing on today's vector. In 2014 I ran somewhere around 200 tubs. Does that mean anything to my success levels today? Nope.
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MrPeanutButta
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Also when people tell me they had many successful grows it tells me that they still haven't grown enough to understand that yesterday's success has no bearing on today's vector. In 2014 I ran somewhere around 200 tubs. Does that mean anything to my success levels today? Nope.
I appreciate your feedback. Yeah I know...I don't mean to say I've been doing it forever and have never had a failure...and I know that my past experience doesn't correlate with the present. I am really just saying that it seemed like when I followed the different teks I learned at one point it seemed to give an overall positive result. For whatever reason, whether it is my environment, not enough attention, mistakes, etc. I am running into a string of failures and it's just a bummer is all.
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MrPeanutButta
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I just flipped it and the bottom looks really healthy. Hopefully I get one flush. The other tub is looking good because I didn't let it dry out. One thing I continue to underestimate is how dry it is here. I think when I first started out I misted a lot and maybe even kept it a bit too moist....somewhere along the line I thought if I provide more and MORE FAE that it would help produce larger flushes. Well I went too far with that thinking and this is twice now where I have let the substrate dry out and each time it weakens the myc and leaves it exposed to contams. Live and learn I suppose.
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