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OfflineKlompen
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LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds?
    #23411472 - 07/04/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hello, I am trying to figure out what Ergine breaks down into in the presence of air, light, heat, etc... Especially under oxidation conditions. What happens chemically to LSA when it degrades? I would also like to know about the same thing with LSD. Is there a good write-up on this somewhere?


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen] * 1
    #23411752 - 07/04/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It degrades into Not LSD. Kind of all that matters honestly


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23412232 - 07/04/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
It degrades into Not LSD. Kind of all that matters honestly




That's all that matters if you don't care about chemistry or learning more about these drugs maybe... It could have useful applications too.

Old morning glories lose a lot of their potency but if you knew what exactly was happening you could attempt to reverse it somehow for example.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineKlompen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23413068 - 07/05/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

bloodsheen said:
It degrades into Not LSD. Kind of all that matters honestly




That's all that matters if you don't care about chemistry or learning more about these drugs maybe... It could have useful applications too.

Old morning glories lose a lot of their potency but if you knew what exactly was happening you could attempt to reverse it somehow for example.




Thank you. Well said. I want to understand the chemistry better. It is also quite true that with some compounds you can reverse certain types of degradation. I'm really still just getting a feel for the atomic action of redox reactions and I want to understand what various environmental conditions do to the molecules. One good example is THC degrading. I know of at least two methods of reversing that particular problem, but I'm not sure if either is really worth the time and money. It may not be a conventional approach to learning chemistry, but it is what worked to inspire me to look deeper.....


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen]
    #23413572 - 07/05/16 12:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thats a technical organic chemistry question.

Might wanna ask the Chemistry and Pharamcology forum.


--------------------
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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen]
    #23413675 - 07/05/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Klompen said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

bloodsheen said:
It degrades into Not LSD. Kind of all that matters honestly




That's all that matters if you don't care about chemistry or learning more about these drugs maybe... It could have useful applications too.

Old morning glories lose a lot of their potency but if you knew what exactly was happening you could attempt to reverse it somehow for example.




I know of at least two methods of reversing that particular problem, but I'm not sure if either is really worth the time and money. It may not be a conventional approach to learning chemistry, but it is what worked to inspire me to look deeper.....




Yeah, pretty much this. LSD is not hard to make, its a waste of time to study its exact degradation. All organics basically break down in similar ways, almost always into less useful products. Its why we study how to stop degradation rather than turn it around.

Plus, even if you were to somehow reverse it, the amount of purification you'd need to do alone would make you an organic chemistry wiz. Light/heat decay products are messy and difficult to sort out


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23413784 - 07/05/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
Plus, even if you were to somehow reverse it, the amount of purification you'd need to do alone would make you an organic chemistry wiz. Light/heat decay products are messy and difficult to sort out




Pretty much everything chemistry related was probably messy and difficult at first :lol: until people started mastering it at least :shrug:

Also you are getting really caught up on the LSD part of this, sure that might be somewhat pointless but with LSA it could be quite useful...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen]
    #23414107 - 07/05/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Depends on what is doing the degrading.  Oxygen, chlorine, and irradiation all produce different non-active degradation compounds.  As someone quipped earlier...who really cares???  Keep your legit LSD away from light, heat, oxygen, and chlorinated water and you're good.  :thumbup:

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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InvisibleLSDollar
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Nature Boy]
    #23415231 - 07/05/16 09:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

LSA sucks balls. Vascoconsriction up the ass. Oh, add peppermint and then you cant breath. It was a fun trip!!!!


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: LSDollar]
    #23415253 - 07/05/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mirraco said:
LSA sucks balls. Vascoconsriction up the ass. Oh, add peppermint and then you cant breath. It was a fun trip!!!!




How did you try it and in what dose? I experienced little to no vasoconstriction or negative effects in general the few times I have tried it.

I have only tried HBWR which supposedly has the most unwanted alkaloids too and I just ate them plain or did water soaks :shrug:

Even combined them with Syrian rue on a few occasions with a few friends too and we all had great times, 0 nausea or other negative effects noted...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: LSDollar]
    #23415333 - 07/05/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mirraco said:
LSA sucks balls. Vascoconsriction up the ass. Oh, add peppermint and then you cant breath. It was a fun trip!!!!




Try a methanol extraction. It will change your opinion on LSA forever....


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Offlinehealing
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen]
    #23415460 - 07/05/16 11:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Klompen said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

bloodsheen said:
It degrades into Not LSD. Kind of all that matters honestly




That's all that matters if you don't care about chemistry or learning more about these drugs maybe... It could have useful applications too.

Old morning glories lose a lot of their potency but if you knew what exactly was happening you could attempt to reverse it somehow for example.




Thank you. Well said. I want to understand the chemistry better. It is also quite true that with some compounds you can reverse certain types of degradation. I'm really still just getting a feel for the atomic action of redox reactions and I want to understand what various environmental conditions do to the molecules. One good example is THC degrading. I know of at least two methods of reversing that particular problem, but I'm not sure if either is really worth the time and money. It may not be a conventional approach to learning chemistry, but it is what worked to inspire me to look deeper.....




Theres no way to reverse the degradation of LSD or LSA that would more cost effective than simply purchasing more.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: healing]
    #23415499 - 07/05/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Theres no way to reverse the degradation of LSD or LSA that would more cost effective than simply purchasing more.




What evidence do you have to back that up? Also purchasing more isn't always a viable solution, for example if you have a ton of old degraded morning glory seeds you want to make the most out of. If you knew what you needed to convert back into LSA or the other actives then you could theoretically find a way to reverse it and get a better result.

I am not saying that would be effective or practical for most people but why is everyone so apposed to it?


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinehealing
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: musiclover420]
    #23415587 - 07/06/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The extremely inexpensive cost of both LSD and LSA.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: healing]
    #23415623 - 07/06/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
The extremely inexpensive cost of both LSD and LSA.




Inexpensive is no reason to waste any due to a lack of experimentation, also LSD gets marked up a ton so calling it "inexpensive" isn't entirely true.

Its cheap if you have good connections otherwise people will charge up to and even more then 10$ a hit saying crap like "its triple dipped man" :rofl2:

Also HBWR and other LSA containing seeds are not always cheap either and a lot of the time the cheap ones are old and not as potent...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: musiclover420]
    #23417520 - 07/06/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

healing said:
The extremely inexpensive cost of both LSD and LSA.




Inexpensive is no reason to waste any due to a lack of experimentation, also LSD gets marked up a ton so calling it "inexpensive" isn't entirely true.

Its cheap if you have good connections otherwise people will charge up to and even more then 10$ a hit saying crap like "its triple dipped man" :rofl2:

Also HBWR and other LSA containing seeds are not always cheap either and a lot of the time the cheap ones are old and not as potent...



Listen man, I could sit here and try to explain all day why you're wrong but clearly you've made up your mind that this is a genius idea that you came up with and now it must come to fruition

There is no world where you could save some old bottle of LSD by trying to re-synthesize it but would be impossible to just make more. Its not how organic chemistry works

There are novel chemical practices and then there is pointless academia. I have no patience for such things


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23417578 - 07/06/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You are misinterpreting my intentions :lol: I never said I would want to do this or that it would be efficient or practical...

I said the opposite in fact if I remember correctly. Once again you are getting way to caught up on the LSD part too, that doesn't even interest me.

Learning everything about LSA does though, it seems feasible that if you can cause reactions to make LSA into more potent lysergamides you could do the same with its less potent or non active byproducts. Effectively taking old weak seeds and making them much more active, it might not be efficient or practical but I don't see why people shouldn't attempt it or at least consider it.

If it weren't for Hoffman experimenting with converting LSA into related compounds we wouldn't even have LSD in the first place :lol:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23417600 - 07/06/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would also add as a practical matter that if the degradation is significant (lets say 50%) you still have 50% perfectly good LSD or LSA which will be ruined by your efforts.  That would be the very definition of "zero sum gain."

I can't think of even one compelling up side to the proposal.  :shrug:

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Nature Boy]
    #23417625 - 07/06/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
I would also add as a practical matter that if the degradation is significant (lets say 50%) you still have 50% perfectly good LSD or LSA which will be ruined by your efforts.




Wouldn't it only be ruined by certain things? I personally I have no idea what kind of reactions would be necessary but it seems like not all of them would ruin LSA.

Couldn't one theoretically do an A/B to extract the LSA then try to recover the leftover byproducts or something?

I really am just interested in this as a novel thing, I doubt I will ever attempt anything even close but I feel like the idea shouldn't be shunned.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinehealing
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: musiclover420]
    #23418912 - 07/07/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

Nature Boy said:
I would also add as a practical matter that if the degradation is significant (lets say 50%) you still have 50% perfectly good LSD or LSA which will be ruined by your efforts.




Wouldn't it only be ruined by certain things? I personally I have no idea what kind of reactions would be necessary but it seems like not all of them would ruin LSA.

Couldn't one theoretically do an A/B to extract the LSA then try to recover the leftover byproducts or something?

I really am just interested in this as a novel thing, I doubt I will ever attempt anything even close but I feel like the idea shouldn't be shunned.




We understand, but it's time for you to let that interest die. Even just separating the LSA from all of the inactive compounds is going to cost you more than simply buying more seeds. And any reaction that you attempt to carry out in the presence of your still active LSA is going to produce a slurry of nasty shit that you don't want mixed with your LSA, which again would cost more to separate than it would cost to buy seeds. It's not practical at all. It's a stupid idea.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



Edited by healing (07/07/16 12:11 AM)


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OfflineKlompen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23420618 - 07/07/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Thats a technical organic chemistry question.

Might wanna ask the Chemistry and Pharamcology forum.





Oops! Somehow I missed that there was such a forum. Can someone move this thread please?


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OfflineKlompen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen]
    #23420649 - 07/07/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It is pretty amusing how off the rails this went due to mentioning the example of reversing oxidation of THC. Lets not fixate too much on that. I'm not trying to process junk LSA/LSD into good quality material again. I just want to understand the degradation process better so I can understand the atomic action involved. For example: do lysergamides tend to break down in similar ways? Are there some stages of decomposition where it becomes more stable? There are just so many questions! Clearly there are limits to it's decomposition because otherwise we'd have rogue benzene in the body.... I'm guessing the entire structure up and around the amine is the weakest part of the structure.

Its funny how people are calling LSD a complex organic product... I was just looking at a hemoglobin in Avogadro and LSD is pretty damn simple compared to that!


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: Klompen]
    #23424871 - 07/08/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you're THAT interested you should become a chemist. Kinda why I did it. You're totally missing the point, the WHAT isn't nearly as interesting as the WHY, which takes years of study to understand is is honestly all that makes it worth studying (other than from a practical point of view anyway). For instance, why would you give a fuck if LSD breaks off a carboxyl group 10% more often than a nitrogen group? (Idgaf what the structure is of LSD, too lazy to look it up, but its all the same organic shit).

What makes it fascinating is WHY it breaks in such a way. One of the principles of mass spectroscopy (obviously not the exposure to light/heat over time but same concept).





We are trying to tell you that you're a child asking why bees think flowers are pretty. Great enthusiasm but your level of ignorance is making it too difficult to get to the heart of your 'problem'


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineKlompen
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Re: LSD/LSA degrade into what compounds? [Re: bloodsheen] * 1
    #23425389 - 07/09/16 01:20 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Wow that is a spectacularly condescending comment. Well played sir.

I have very specific reasons for asking these questions, and actually some reasons for being a bit broad in scope on them. Maybe "What" doesn't get you excited as much as "Why", but I would like to know both if possible. I definitely "give a fuck" what breaks off the molecule easily, what bonds with it most readily, and the specifics of why. I guess to you it might just be "organic shit", but the way molecules degrade or aggregate is pretty vital to basically all life as we know it.


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