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Offlinehampiri
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I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid
    #23408504 - 07/03/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Alright, here's some background. I was swabbing spore solution of Albino A+ cubies and ATL#7 at the same time and accidentally set one of my dishes on the "not swabbed" side of the HEPA cabinet. This dish got swabbed with both types of spores. It started out looking normal with a distinct border between the two species on the dish, it was a solid border except for one spot that grew together. That spot quickly grew and the two bordering colonies where completely overtaken by white cloud-like mycellium. I didn't get too excited at first,  just figured it was within normal variation for what I assumed was an AA+ "sport" due to its white coloured mycellium. However, after I isolated it, a wedge was put in a spawn jar of race horse oats, and after about 20 days it has started forming sclerotia. :breakthrough:

I have no idea how to confirm this definitively but it appears to be a dikaryon of two distinct Psilocybe species(mexicana x cubensis). Someone please either slap some sense into my silly brain and help me figure out how to disprove my hypothesis or tell me they have had this happen as well.

pictures forthcoming...

Here's a little sclerotium starting to form:


Here's one of the isolates I took just for observation:


Update: July 13th
The jar now has many stones forming with a blackish-purple pigmentation as opposed to the normal reddish-brown.



You can see the spot from the original picture slightly up and to the left of center.


--------------------
"Trust the fungus..." -Mario

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Edited by hampiri (07/15/16 08:43 PM)


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23408526 - 07/03/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

One will dominate. It's possible to have separate species growing harmoniously, but they have different metabolism and growth rates over certain nutrients. That's going to turn into a gooey mess.

Pics us


Edited by CosmoKramer (07/03/16 09:34 PM)


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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23408641 - 07/03/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

fruit that shit

see what happens :awesomenod:


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
    #23408664 - 07/03/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

touché! Time will win.

:creepylurker:


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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
    #23408666 - 07/03/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmoKramer said:
One will dominate. It's possible to have separate species growing harmoniously, but they have different metabolism and growth rates over certain nutrients. That's going to turn into a gooey mess.

Pics us




Pics up, I'll try to find the nice camera to take a macro, or wait till it grows a bit bigger, because it doesn't look as obvious in the soft-focus of my 4 MP dinosaur. I have done quite a few spawn runs of isolated AA+ and a couple of P. Gali. This acts like neither in it's veracity and displays phenotypes of both (leucism and sclerotia formation).

Quote:

weetsie said:
fruit that shit

see what happens :awesomenod:




I dropped wedges in 3 more jars today and made more plates. If I have time next weekend I'll make some LI and BRF cakes because it feels unnecessarily wasteful to fruit a sclerotia-former before it has some nice stones. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Trust the fungus..." -Mario

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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23408673 - 07/03/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Keep updating! Conclusions are necessary.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23408772 - 07/03/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It's doubtful that it will hybridize. They are different species, like trying to cross a human with a chimp. They will both fight each other for food and possibly fruit together. But they will not be likely to cross.


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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23408822 - 07/03/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
It's doubtful that it will hybridize. They are different species, like trying to cross a human with a chimp. They will both fight each other for food and possibly fruit together. But they will not be likely to cross.




With all due respect, that would be an interfamilial hybrid which is a totally different ballgame. Basidiomycetes, like Psilocybe, have been shown in the literature to form interspecific hybrid dikaryons, Pleurotus is a genus that seems to do readily.
It's not a matter of whether or not it will so much as whether or not it did.


--------------------
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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23408832 - 07/03/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hampiri said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
It's doubtful that it will hybridize. They are different species, like trying to cross a human with a chimp. They will both fight each other for food and possibly fruit together. But they will not be likely to cross.




With all due respect, that would be an interfamilial hybrid which is a totally different ballgame. Basidiomycetes, like Psilocybe, have been shown in the literature to form interspecific hybrid dikaryons, Pleurotus is a genus that seems to do readily.
It's not a matter of whether or not it will so much as whether or not it did.




Sure. I never said it was impossible. Just really unlikely. It was a loose example. Perhaps if it was species in the same section like ps. Cubensis and ps. Subcubensis, or ps Samuiensis and ps Mexicana it would be more likely.


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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23408953 - 07/03/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Sure. I never said it was impossible. Just really unlikely. It was a loose example. Perhaps if it was species in the same section like ps. Cubensis and ps. Subcubensis, or ps Samuiensis and ps Mexicana it would be more likely.




That's fair, although phylogeny has always been a hairy topic in mycology, not many relationships down at the species level are well characterized. I think if the genes encoding mating type are similar enough between species they could theoretically be serocompatible. I can't think of an environment that would select for mating type protein tags to change too much more than what is to be expected from natural variation.

To channel the great Hawaiian detective Harry Hoo, three possibilities; it's either a "sport", to borrow a botany term-of-art, of Ps. mexicana var. Galindoi and it developed leucism by pure coincidence; it's a hybrid dikaryon; or it's two species of dikaryon living in such commensal harmony that they have marked morphological differences from the parent species alone.

When it fruits I will be able to look at the spores and lamella microscopically(by then I'll have a scope) and hopefully find more clues. I wish I was friends with someone who has access qPCR, electrophoresis, and the like.
I appreciate your input PW; it gets my gears turning :smile: Thanks



--------------------
"Trust the fungus..." -Mario

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Edited by hampiri (07/04/16 12:07 AM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23408978 - 07/04/16 12:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I doubt you would need a scope to tell if your hybrid took. Just a hunch.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23409217 - 07/04/16 03:17 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I have no idea how to confirm this




probably should have observed this for a bit longer before making a post... at least fruited it first


Edited by Munchauzen (07/04/16 03:31 AM)


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23409343 - 07/04/16 05:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, once you fruit that, it will be apperant that either one or the other is growing. Might grow side by side if they intertwined but if you're getting stones, chances are it's the ATL.

If it were that easy, it would have already been done.


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Offlinedrolman
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23409352 - 07/04/16 05:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Leave on to grow invitro and see if stones and fruits form in the jar.  Would that possibly tell what is happening.  Keep us posted, this is very interesting.


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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: drolman]
    #23445189 - 07/15/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Updated: Things are getting weird maaaaan...


--------------------
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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23445331 - 07/15/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Weird is good :awesomenod:


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
    #23445374 - 07/15/16 10:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:goodluck:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: lvnthalife]
    #23445526 - 07/15/16 11:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Putting all my money on
did not come close to mixing


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23445537 - 07/15/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Putting all my money on
did not come close to mixing



:whathesaid:


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OfflineMysticMoteToter
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23446366 - 07/16/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Putting all my money on
did not come close to mixing



:whathesaid:




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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: MysticMoteToter]
    #23446385 - 07/16/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

no room for naysayers and their realistic expectations on this hype train

:doublejointed:


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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
    #23446524 - 07/16/16 10:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:canthelpbutlaugh:


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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
    #23446528 - 07/16/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

weetsie said:
no room for naysayers and their realistic expectations on this hype train

:doublejointed:




:smugjerry:

I don't expect anything; I'm just observing and hypothesizing.
My ego got fried out years ago...
Anyone know a good way to get hyphae to show up on my digital microscope?
I think the pigment produced in the fungi is throwing off the white balance and bleaching it out so I can barely see the septa and clamp connections. Also, does anyone know a good stain for fungi that won't obscure internal structures? Something that I can make it more blue or green with?


--------------------
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Edited by hampiri (07/16/16 11:05 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23446857 - 07/16/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Just learn how to make slides. You don't need stains.

Potassium hydroxide can clean up some of the proteinaceous crud that's not mycelium



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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23447290 - 07/16/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Just learn how to make slides. You don't need stains.

Potassium hydroxide can clean up some of the proteinaceous crud that's not mycelium






Oooooo pretty, yeah I figured that out... off to google university to figure out how to make better slides! Potassium phenolate and Brilliant Blue dye made it a bit better... I need glass slides and cover slips though these plastic ones are garbage.

I need some KOH...





--------------------
"Trust the fungus..." -Mario

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Edited by hampiri (07/16/16 05:15 PM)


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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23447297 - 07/16/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

man i keep considering getting this ~$150-$180 microscope that can do i think x1000 and has a 2MP camera that can take stills and video(i think 2MP, might have been 4, but cant remember) but every time i want to, i think that maybe it wouldnt even be good enough to do anything like that, anyways.

plus im so noob about stuff like that, that i just dont know if i would even know what i was looking at or for. i would love to watch tardigrades with it, too =p

but i just cant seem to justify getting it. but i think it would be really cool to have a decent one with a decent camera for stills/video/live streaming to computer screen.  which i think this one can do. ill try to find what i was looking at(was like a month ago) and see what you guys think about it.

or, since im so noob about that kind of stuff, would it even be worth it for me to try?


--------------------
-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


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Offlinehampiri
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: mupetmower]
    #23447396 - 07/16/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mupetmower said:
man i keep considering getting this ~$150-$180 microscope that can do i think x1000 and has a 2MP camera that can take stills and video(i think 2MP, might have been 4, but cant remember) but every time i want to, i think that maybe it wouldnt even be good enough to do anything like that, anyways.

plus im so noob about stuff like that, that i just dont know if i would even know what i was looking at or for. i would love to watch tardigrades with it, too =p

but i just cant seem to justify getting it. but i think it would be really cool to have a decent one with a decent camera for stills/video/live streaming to computer screen.  which i think this one can do. ill try to find what i was looking at(was like a month ago) and see what you guys think about it.

or, since im so noob about that kind of stuff, would it even be worth it for me to try?




It would be worth it just to look at tardigrades for me... They are so damned cool.


--------------------
"Trust the fungus..." -Mario

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
    #23447444 - 07/16/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I held my phone camera to the eyepiece for all my pictures


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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23447487 - 07/16/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

oh wow, really? hmm maybe ill go for it, then. idk.


--------------------
-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.


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