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hampiri
Time Traveller



Registered: 04/12/16
Posts: 52
Loc: Essos
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid
#23408504 - 07/03/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alright, here's some background. I was swabbing spore solution of Albino A+ cubies and ATL#7 at the same time and accidentally set one of my dishes on the "not swabbed" side of the HEPA cabinet. This dish got swabbed with both types of spores. It started out looking normal with a distinct border between the two species on the dish, it was a solid border except for one spot that grew together. That spot quickly grew and the two bordering colonies where completely overtaken by white cloud-like mycellium. I didn't get too excited at first, just figured it was within normal variation for what I assumed was an AA+ "sport" due to its white coloured mycellium. However, after I isolated it, a wedge was put in a spawn jar of race horse oats, and after about 20 days it has started forming sclerotia.
I have no idea how to confirm this definitively but it appears to be a dikaryon of two distinct Psilocybe species(mexicana x cubensis). Someone please either slap some sense into my silly brain and help me figure out how to disprove my hypothesis or tell me they have had this happen as well.
pictures forthcoming...
Here's a little sclerotium starting to form:

Here's one of the isolates I took just for observation:
Update: July 13th The jar now has many stones forming with a blackish-purple pigmentation as opposed to the normal reddish-brown.

You can see the spot from the original picture slightly up and to the left of center.
-------------------- "Trust the fungus..." -Mario Legend:TakenNever againWant to take
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Edited by hampiri (07/15/16 08:43 PM)
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
#23408526 - 07/03/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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One will dominate. It's possible to have separate species growing harmoniously, but they have different metabolism and growth rates over certain nutrients. That's going to turn into a gooey mess.
Pics us
Edited by CosmoKramer (07/03/16 09:34 PM)
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23408641 - 07/03/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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fruit that shit
see what happens
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
#23408664 - 07/03/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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touché! Time will win.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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hampiri
Time Traveller



Registered: 04/12/16
Posts: 52
Loc: Essos
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
#23408666 - 07/03/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
CosmoKramer said: One will dominate. It's possible to have separate species growing harmoniously, but they have different metabolism and growth rates over certain nutrients. That's going to turn into a gooey mess.
Pics us
Pics up, I'll try to find the nice camera to take a macro, or wait till it grows a bit bigger, because it doesn't look as obvious in the soft-focus of my 4 MP dinosaur. I have done quite a few spawn runs of isolated AA+ and a couple of P. Gali. This acts like neither in it's veracity and displays phenotypes of both (leucism and sclerotia formation).
Quote:
weetsie said: fruit that shit
see what happens 
I dropped wedges in 3 more jars today and made more plates. If I have time next weekend I'll make some LI and BRF cakes because it feels unnecessarily wasteful to fruit a sclerotia-former before it has some nice stones.
-------------------- "Trust the fungus..." -Mario Legend:TakenNever againWant to take
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
#23408673 - 07/03/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Keep updating! Conclusions are necessary.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23408772 - 07/03/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's doubtful that it will hybridize. They are different species, like trying to cross a human with a chimp. They will both fight each other for food and possibly fruit together. But they will not be likely to cross.
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hampiri
Time Traveller



Registered: 04/12/16
Posts: 52
Loc: Essos
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23408822 - 07/03/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: It's doubtful that it will hybridize. They are different species, like trying to cross a human with a chimp. They will both fight each other for food and possibly fruit together. But they will not be likely to cross.
With all due respect, that would be an interfamilial hybrid which is a totally different ballgame. Basidiomycetes, like Psilocybe, have been shown in the literature to form interspecific hybrid dikaryons, Pleurotus is a genus that seems to do readily. It's not a matter of whether or not it will so much as whether or not it did.
-------------------- "Trust the fungus..." -Mario Legend:TakenNever againWant to take
LSD DMT 2C-I Mescaline Bufotenin Psilocin Psilocybin 5-Hydroxypsilocin 5-Hydroxypsilocybin 25I-NBOMe LSZ ETH-LAD DET Ethocin Ethocybin
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
#23408832 - 07/03/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hampiri said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: It's doubtful that it will hybridize. They are different species, like trying to cross a human with a chimp. They will both fight each other for food and possibly fruit together. But they will not be likely to cross.
With all due respect, that would be an interfamilial hybrid which is a totally different ballgame. Basidiomycetes, like Psilocybe, have been shown in the literature to form interspecific hybrid dikaryons, Pleurotus is a genus that seems to do readily. It's not a matter of whether or not it will so much as whether or not it did.
Sure. I never said it was impossible. Just really unlikely. It was a loose example. Perhaps if it was species in the same section like ps. Cubensis and ps. Subcubensis, or ps Samuiensis and ps Mexicana it would be more likely.
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hampiri
Time Traveller



Registered: 04/12/16
Posts: 52
Loc: Essos
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23408953 - 07/03/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Sure. I never said it was impossible. Just really unlikely. It was a loose example. Perhaps if it was species in the same section like ps. Cubensis and ps. Subcubensis, or ps Samuiensis and ps Mexicana it would be more likely.
That's fair, although phylogeny has always been a hairy topic in mycology, not many relationships down at the species level are well characterized. I think if the genes encoding mating type are similar enough between species they could theoretically be serocompatible. I can't think of an environment that would select for mating type protein tags to change too much more than what is to be expected from natural variation.
To channel the great Hawaiian detective Harry Hoo, three possibilities; it's either a "sport", to borrow a botany term-of-art, of Ps. mexicana var. Galindoi and it developed leucism by pure coincidence; it's a hybrid dikaryon; or it's two species of dikaryon living in such commensal harmony that they have marked morphological differences from the parent species alone.
When it fruits I will be able to look at the spores and lamella microscopically(by then I'll have a scope) and hopefully find more clues. I wish I was friends with someone who has access qPCR, electrophoresis, and the like. I appreciate your input PW; it gets my gears turning Thanks
-------------------- "Trust the fungus..." -Mario Legend:TakenNever againWant to take
LSD DMT 2C-I Mescaline Bufotenin Psilocin Psilocybin 5-Hydroxypsilocin 5-Hydroxypsilocybin 25I-NBOMe LSZ ETH-LAD DET Ethocin Ethocybin
Edited by hampiri (07/04/16 12:07 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
#23408978 - 07/04/16 12:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I doubt you would need a scope to tell if your hybrid took. Just a hunch.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
#23409217 - 07/04/16 03:17 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I have no idea how to confirm this
probably should have observed this for a bit longer before making a post... at least fruited it first
Edited by Munchauzen (07/04/16 03:31 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Munchauzen]
#23409343 - 07/04/16 05:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, once you fruit that, it will be apperant that either one or the other is growing. Might grow side by side if they intertwined but if you're getting stones, chances are it's the ATL.
If it were that easy, it would have already been done.
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drolman
Dimension Jumper

Registered: 03/01/14
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23409352 - 07/04/16 05:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Leave on to grow invitro and see if stones and fruits form in the jar. Would that possibly tell what is happening. Keep us posted, this is very interesting.
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hampiri
Time Traveller



Registered: 04/12/16
Posts: 52
Loc: Essos
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: drolman]
#23445189 - 07/15/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Updated: Things are getting weird maaaaan...
-------------------- "Trust the fungus..." -Mario Legend:TakenNever againWant to take
LSD DMT 2C-I Mescaline Bufotenin Psilocin Psilocybin 5-Hydroxypsilocin 5-Hydroxypsilocybin 25I-NBOMe LSZ ETH-LAD DET Ethocin Ethocybin
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: hampiri]
#23445331 - 07/15/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Weird is good
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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lvnthalife
Stranger


Registered: 07/20/14
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: weetsie]
#23445374 - 07/15/16 10:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: lvnthalife]
#23445526 - 07/15/16 11:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Putting all my money on did not come close to mixing
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: bodhisatta]
#23445537 - 07/15/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Putting all my money on did not come close to mixing
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MysticMoteToter



Registered: 07/26/15
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Re: I don't believe it... probable interspecific hybrid [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23446366 - 07/16/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Putting all my money on did not come close to mixing

-------------------- Half Homo Hardly Sapient Overview Effect Fuck War, Feed Birds.
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