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OfflineGreat Scott
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Registered: 05/05/03
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Re: California is fucked [Re: rackem] * 2
    #23407231 - 07/03/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
why did this go to a personal level? this is why this debate never gets anywhere productive.  keep the personal attacks out of it.




He had to. He has no real argument. Libz always start wheeling out the Ad Hominems and the Strawmen after a while when you press them on their insane opinions.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: California is fucked [Re: rackem]
    #23407233 - 07/03/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
why did this go to a personal level? this is why this debate never gets anywhere productive.  keep the personal attacks out of it.




Didn't you know? Normal people are never victims of violence, if you get held at gunpoint you probably did something wrong!


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
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Re: California is fucked [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #23407238 - 07/03/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-violence-and-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/

Hard numbers brah, robberies are gonna happen regardless. Letting people own guns sure as fuck aint stopping them from happening.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: California is fucked [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #23407241 - 07/03/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Not going to read it though I did get my stats off the FBI's website.


Edited by luvdemboomers (07/03/16 02:06 PM)


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: California is fucked [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #23407259 - 07/03/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Have fun. The cops are already knocking on doors. Try resisting.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: California is fucked [Re: rackem] * 1
    #23407297 - 07/03/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
why did this go to a personal level? this is why this debate never gets anywhere productive.  keep the personal attacks out of it.




Never happen when debating with progressives, when they run out of facts, which is usually quickly, they attack personally, it's disgusting but it's a tried and true tactic they've use successfully for generations


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InvisibleEminence
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Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
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Re: California is fucked [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23407395 - 07/03/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

Eminence said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Rifle, pistol, whatever. Make them all complicated and difficult to attain. Mass shootings will plummet in response. Retards who wanna cry about "muh pershunal defense weapuns!" Can still get them. Everyones happy.




Why are people who want guns as personal defense considered whiny retards though? I wonder how many anti-gun people have been attacked and felt powerless, especially in their own homes and thought "damn, a gun would be pretty useful right now" before they were killed. Hopefully you're never in that situation, but trust me, if that time comes you'd likely change your opinion real quick.




Because those situations are extremely rare, and statistically youre more likely to get shot owning a gun in that situation then you are not having one. Trust me. You and everyone you know is gonna go through their entire life without having to draw on someone.




Well I avoided saying this because I didn't want to seem like I was lying just to get a point across but I already have had to pull one before. Didn't need to pull the trigger though. And I have another friend who actually has, he lived in Petersburg Virginia which is a pretty shitty place.  Hell there was even someone on this site that had to pull one when his house got broken into while he was home, don't remember his name though. It's only rare if you're living in a good area, there are plenty of situations where people would have been able to save their own lives  or just avoided risking them by having one. I'm not saying it's "common" but it's more often than you seem to think. I don't think a criminal having a firearm is the only reason to pull one either, if someone has a knife and they're threatening you, I see no reason why you should have to defend yourself with your hands.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: California is fucked [Re: Eminence] * 1
    #23407405 - 07/03/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

it was wakeboardrb


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: California is fucked [Re: rackem]
    #23407413 - 07/03/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, I knew "boarder" was in the name.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: California is fucked [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23407506 - 07/03/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
One incident is not a substantial amount of data points. Overall the incident rate of home invasions in the states is fairly low, and the amount of people killed during them averages around a 100 a year. Nationwide. Compare that to the rate of mass shootings and its fairly cut and dry which side should lose if you want to appeal to personal safety. It isnt even an argument at this point.

You likely did something to warrant that home invasion happening anyways. Given the demographic of this sites userbase.

Honestly youre more likely to win a million+ dollar jackpot then getting shot in your home, but I doubt youre out there blowing your life savings on lottery tickets.




Let's face it, gun owners don't really evaluate risk well at all. They think owning a gun will protect them in the extremely rare cases of home invasion, bit ignore the far more likely outcome that their gun will be the cause of their own death or the death of someone else in an accident, or moment of suicidal or homicidal impulse.

There are a couple hundred home invasions a year. There are dozens of accidental shootings A DAY. Do the math. Guns don't make you safer, but trying to use reason to convince an irrational gun fetishist is pointless.


Edited by koods (07/03/16 03:22 PM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: California is fucked [Re: koods]
    #23407567 - 07/03/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
One incident is not a substantial amount of data points. Overall the incident rate of home invasions in the states is fairly low, and the amount of people killed during them averages around a 100 a year. Nationwide. Compare that to the rate of mass shootings and its fairly cut and dry which side should lose if you want to appeal to personal safety. It isnt even an argument at this point.

You likely did something to warrant that home invasion happening anyways. Given the demographic of this sites userbase.

Honestly youre more likely to win a million+ dollar jackpot then getting shot in your home, but I doubt youre out there blowing your life savings on lottery tickets.




Let's face it, gun owners don't really evaluate risk well at all. They think owning a gun will protect them in the extremely rare cases of home invasion, bit ignore the far more likely outcome that their gun will be the cause of their own death or the death of someone else in an accident, or moment of suicidal or homicidal impulse.

There are a couple hundred home invasions a year. There are dozens of accidental shootings A DAY. Do the math. Guns don't make you safer, but trying to use reason to convince an irrational gun fetishist is pointless.




Pointless like explaining the 2A to an irrational gun hating retard,


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Invisiblemillzy
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Registered: 05/12/10
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Re: California is fucked [Re: Eminence]
    #23407575 - 07/03/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:

It's because they are fucking stupid, simple as that I think. It doesn't matter how good of an argument you make against them, they'll shut their ears and then complain about the last gun crime they heard about without even realizing that person got the weapon illegally.




according to the times, most of the guns used in the recent spree of mass shootings were acquired legally, including the orlando shooting. so you'd be wrong on that point of your brilliant argument against freedom hating libtards.

that said, i'm unsure of how much an outright ban on the aforementioned weapons will help. it seems reasonable to just make weapons that can be easily used to commit mass murders harder to legally acquire. the only people who should be allowed to legally own especially dangerous weapons should be the ones we absolutely trust with them.

i also think this policy seems reasonable:

Quote:

Another bill that will now become law tries to limit "straw purchasing," the practice of a person buying a gun legally with the intent of giving or selling the weapon to someone else. In addition to making it a misdemeanor to file a false report about a gun being lost or stolen, the new law will prohibit the purchaser from buying another gun for 10 years.




i don't know understand why it was legal to buy a gun, report it stolen and give it to someone else to begin with. hopefully this will help keep guns out of the wrong hands.

i'm also a little surprised by this one proposed policy that was not enacted:

Quote:

All of the bills Brown signed were sponsored by Democrats — and so were the five bills that he vetoed, although one of those, which makes it a felony to steal a gun, was also sponsored by Republican Assemblywoman Melissa A. Melendez.




i believe theft of anything over $300-$400 is considered a felony. guns are expensive. i wonder if that was vetoed because it is redundant.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: California is fucked [Re: millzy]
    #23407584 - 07/03/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Private sales also arnt tracked in any way in a lot of states. Given that info I cant believe someone actually brought up the amount of armed robberies last year as a reason to keep them easy to acquire. Its insane to suggest restricting their sale wouldnt have an impact. These are mass produced items with an already highly regulated industry. Rules and regulations would have an immediate and tangible impact because of its centralization. Drugs on the other hand are already decenteralized commodities and much harder to fight.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: California is fucked [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23407591 - 07/03/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Private sales also arnt tracked in any way in a lot of states. Given that info I cant believe someone actually brought up the amount of armed robberies last year as a reason to keep them easy to acquire. Thats some insane doublethink




If they follow the law, yes they are, but criminals don't follow laws, so surely the only option is banning and confiscating guns


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: California is fucked [Re: rackem]
    #23407610 - 07/03/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
it was wakeboardrb



PurePleasure kind of recently got shot in a home invasion... He shot back hitting one guy in the ass... Probably the only reason he's alive... Although nobody has heard from him in a while...


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InvisibleEminence
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Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: California is fucked [Re: millzy] * 2
    #23407650 - 07/03/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Think about this...if your boyfriend or a family member was a victim of a lethal mugging or a home invasion, and the aggressor had an illegally acquired gun and shot that person to death while they were scrambling around looking for something that would be even mildly useful as a weapon, would you have second thoughts about having a license to own a gun?

I haven't read about how many deaths are due to legally acquired guns, but I wonder if those stats take into account how many are suicides. About the Orlando shooter, I'm not sure what to make of it now that police chiefs are saying it was the SWAT team that did it..but either way, that suspect's name was apparently scrubbed off the DHS watch list by the same people who want to enforce stricter gun control, so I don't trust their intentions.

Gun control isn't the answer, that's been made clear by seeing how many safe countries allow citizens to buy them. There's clearly other problems in America that contribute to gun violence. That's mental illness and people being useless with background checks I think. I know you've heard it a hundred times already but banning guns isn't going to stop people from making bombs, using knives, fire, vehicles etc. if they want to kill someone. Guns are just tools, and they've already been invented so unless we end up with the toughest customs in the world and make a watch list of people buying 3D printers and explosive powders they're here to stay.

Also the NY Times is garbage.


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: California is fucked [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23407670 - 07/03/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Private sales also arnt tracked in any way in a lot of states. Given that info I cant believe someone actually brought up the amount of armed robberies last year as a reason to keep them easy to acquire. Thats some insane doublethink




If they follow the law, yes they are, but criminals don't follow laws, so surely the only option is banning and confiscating guns





ive already explained how Canada's regulations work.  They seem to work fine for us.  No one is being punished because they have to jump through many hoops and been shown to be of solid character before being allowed to be sold a handgun.  Others have pointed out that if you make it harder for the crazy and unstable people to get destructive weapons, you cut down on these rampant mass shootings and massacres. 

The same arguments, the same circle.  someone claimed that gun crime has dropped.  That was shot down and proven to be false by another member.  Then someone tried to claim California's gun crime isn't that low, that was shot down.  Then someone tried to claim that in the majority of mass shootings, illegal guns were used.  That was proven wrong. 

It's always the same story with these threads

Gun supporters cling to the following ideas in these talks:

-I need it for home defense
-a well armed population is a safer population
-look at Switzerland
-so we should make drugs illegal?
-it's my right.  The constitution says so
-anyone who disagrees with me is a stupid liberal.  Anyone who wants to take my guns is a stupid liberal


It's almost humorous


Making dangerous weapons...weapons that serve no purpose besides being specifically engineered and designed to take human life...difficult to obtain, is NOT taking your guns away.  You aren't entitled to anything.  The self entitlement is what drives most gun enthusiasts whiny stance on this topic. 

Keep your guns...but be required to go through the appropriate background checks, practical and theoretical training and testing that we do here, to keep them and use them.  Legislation that makes it harder to obtain certain weapons and trains its citizens properly in their responsible use should they want to obtain them, certainly would have a direct impact on your mass shootings and gun related crime. 

Of course, if you don't abide by the rules here, it's stiff penalties and jail time.  There is already a huge problem with prison over population so I don't see that going very well.  Which brings me to a statement that I said earlier....I think you guys are past the point of no return.  It's toxic and there is no going back I think :shrug:


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: California is fucked [Re: Masked]
    #23407684 - 07/03/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I've said before, the culture is the problem, not the guns, even if you ban every gun available, people are still gonna go on rampant killing sprees, the Boston bombers used pressure cookers, mcveigh use diesel and fertilizer.

I'm glad Canada has low gun crime, and even that one guy admitted that when they raid meth shacks, they almost always find illegal guns. The guns aren't what make mass murderers, the culture does.

Banning guns is just putting a bandaid on the real problem, which is far deeper and much harder to treat


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
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Re: California is fucked [Re: millzy]
    #23407712 - 07/03/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:


i don't know understand why it was legal to buy a gun, report it stolen and give it to someone else to begin with. hopefully this will help keep guns out of the wrong hands.





It wasn't. Punishable by up to 10 years in prison nationwide by federal law.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: California is fucked [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23407717 - 07/03/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
One incident is not a substantial amount of data points. Overall the incident rate of home invasions in the states is fairly low, and the amount of people killed during them averages around a 100 a year. Nationwide. Compare that to the rate of mass shootings and its fairly cut and dry which side should lose if you want to appeal to personal safety. It isnt even an argument at this point.

You likely did something to warrant that home invasion happening anyways. Given the demographic of this sites userbase.

Honestly youre more likely to win a million+ dollar jackpot then getting shot in your home, but I doubt youre out there blowing your life savings on lottery tickets.




Let's face it, gun owners don't really evaluate risk well at all. They think owning a gun will protect them in the extremely rare cases of home invasion, bit ignore the far more likely outcome that their gun will be the cause of their own death or the death of someone else in an accident, or moment of suicidal or homicidal impulse.

There are a couple hundred home invasions a year. There are dozens of accidental shootings A DAY. Do the math. Guns don't make you safer, but trying to use reason to convince an irrational gun fetishist is pointless.




Pointless like explaining the 2A to an irrational gun hating retard,



I think I have a much better grasp on the 2A then most of the people in this thread. I've actually read the court decisions.


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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