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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Juiceh]
    #23434794 - 07/12/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So tested this theory with my 941. Out of 18 jars 8 had some form of growth after about a week.

They all have the same filters so the only explanation is the imperfect seal made by the metl to glass lid. It was mold btw not bacteria


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23434901 - 07/12/16 01:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Would think the mold has to be getting in somehow after the cycle and the jars have cooled, I have heard of ppl having problems with some molds like penicillin, which has very small spores and can sometimes even get through filters.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23435072 - 07/12/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I wonder if when you break a vaccuum with a batch of jars if the filters get stressed any.

Contams getting through the lid is pretty improbable, especially 8/18. Same with smaller spores like ND mentioned. If it was 1 jar out of a batch or two it would make much more sense IMO.

I can't help but feel that the problem lies elsewhere.

Don't you have a flowhood mad? Can't you put the PC in front of it after a cycle? Or is it too heavy?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23435404 - 07/12/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

it's way too fucking heavy.

I'm going lids down from now one for a while and run the same experiment


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23435457 - 07/12/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

PC aside letting jars cool on their own creates a vacuum and if you have a rust burr or any other non perfect metal to glass seal it's going to suck air in through there instead of the filter


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23435486 - 07/12/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It'll suck air through there VERY slowly, so slowly in fact that contaminants won't be able to do the weird little... loopty they gotta do to actually get inside the jar.  You are seriously overthinking PCing jars.  And bags, and whatever else you're overthinking at this particular moment.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Inocuole]
    #23435563 - 07/12/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Then give me a plausible explanation how unopened jars all with sfd's grew mold when they were run for 3 hours? And also why only some of them did so pointing to it not being a procedural error across the board.


Obviously outside air got in somehow and if the filters were bad wouldn't all the jars have the same issue?


I mentioned earlier in the thread about hearing a jar actually sucking in air (hissing) and I'm sure it wasn't from a compromised cellulose sfd.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23435574 - 07/12/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck it, you're cursed.
:imout:


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Inocuole]
    #23435727 - 07/12/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol I believe it. I need to spring for plastic lids but I don't think they make a perfect seal either


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef] * 1
    #23435782 - 07/12/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

They don't but I did a round of unmodded plastic lids recently and I broke the vacuum with them half-unscrewed and did all kinds of goofy shit and they still worked. :shrug:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Inocuole]
    #23436066 - 07/12/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
if you have the rubber attached I highly recommend taking it off. This will make life much easier.



Just a suggestion? I stopped hearing the hissing when I did this. Also on my unmodified lids, if you leave it in the PC like an extra half hour - hour I don't hear any hissing either. Lid rims are still sticky tho..


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Mad Season]
    #23436195 - 07/12/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I only ever heard the hissing with my lids turned upside down (gasket side up)



So while it might work for most it doesn't seem to work for me with an acceptable degree of success.


Whether it happened in the PC itself or while the jars were finishing cooling outside the pc air got in.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23436672 - 07/13/16 12:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't believe it got inside the PC and inside the jar either. That's too improbable to happen to 8 jars. I never even had 1 do that, let alone 8.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23436686 - 07/13/16 12:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

An AA pulls a vacuum. So when you open the stopcock or take the weight off it proceeds to suck in air and depending on the internal temp of your jars they will likely be sucking in air too (should be through the filter. This is if you let your pc cool naturally overnight and don't pull the weight off right when pressure hits zero.



Well it happened. If it happened while they were still in the pc and it happened when I released the vacuum or if a temp swing cause air exchange while they were out of the pc I couldn't tell you.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23436698 - 07/13/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

A presto would still suck air, even though it doesn't pull a vaccuum. There are others who use an AA and never had this problem either. I think the problem lies elsewhere.

Is this PC new? Haven't you been doing jars for G2Ging bags in the past?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23436742 - 07/13/16 01:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

a presto pulls in air but gradually. This was the first time I ran jars in my AA.



I do my jars previously in my 16qt or 23qt and never had this issue


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23436755 - 07/13/16 01:05 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Actually when I was doing all my jars in my 23qt I have a high failure rate that I could never pinpoint so this my have been the cause. My lids are pretty old and crusty


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23436840 - 07/13/16 02:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:



Obviously outside air got in somehow and if the filters were bad wouldn't all the jars have the same issue?






No, just the ones that had a shitty filter job... Try making a different style of lid... For 50% of uninoculated jars to grow mold after be PC'd it has to be operator error... That is the only logical explanation... Try unmodified lids man...


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: LocN9ne]
    #23436893 - 07/13/16 03:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If the filter was compromised what would account for such a sudden rush of air being pulled in that I could hear it hissing from a few feet back?

Also why haven't I seen any issues with my jars gasket side down where it makes a true seal?


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: I have an issue with my lids [Re: maddchef]
    #23437205 - 07/13/16 07:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I couldn't tell ya, but it wouldn't take but a tiny piece of the hot ass silicone to be compromised for shit to get sucked through it somewhere around the seal that is on the lid, silicone to a mason jar lid isn't really all that great of a bond... Especially if your filters are restricting enough airflow that you can hear the jars actively drawing a vacuum after a PC cycle... The air is going to take the path of least resistance...

I don't use SFD's... Do they restrict airflow to the point of drawing that hard of a vacuum in the jars for anyone else on here? That just sounds wrong... Even with unmodified lids loosened 1/4 turn I don't get that effect.


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