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frankwhite85
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Registered: 04/18/16
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Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization?
#23402374 - 07/01/16 09:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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So i'm starting to experiment putting agar wedges to grain and was wondering what the general consensus for shaking is? I know once the mycelium has grown on to the grain you let it colonize a few dozen kernels and give it its first shake. Do you also shake once its gotten to like 20-30% colonized like grain to grains? I get worried it would stall if I only do that first shake. Maybe if the mycelium is weak it would need two shakes but once you got a solid monoculture down a single shake would suffice?
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: frankwhite85] 1
#23402389 - 07/01/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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one shake, at 30%, thats it. thats the common consensus. i dont think Ive ever even heard of someone suggesting shaking after a few kernels colonize. you reading old threads, frank?
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frankwhite85
Stranger


Registered: 04/18/16
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: Munchauzen]
#23405057 - 07/02/16 07:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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RR said once they mycelium has grown off the agar wedge to shake after a few dozen kernels have been colonized.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: Munchauzen]
#23405589 - 07/02/16 10:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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When to shake depends IMO.
Pink oyster has myc that runs right through the grain like it's ignoring it. If you shake it after 2 days or about an inch of growth it can be 100% colonised within a further 3 days.
The myc on my cordyceps seems to break off and stick to uncolonised grain when you shake it so even though it's pretty slow growing, you can shake it aggressively with the tiniest bit of growth and it recovers from hundreds of sites looking as if it had been shook at 50%.
Some species grow thick and tough mycelium that is just too hard to break up when it's a small clump making early shaking pointless.
For cubes I like to shake them twice, once after the wedge has colonised 2 grains deep around the wedge then again once those grains have colonised the immediate grain. If I didn't shake them early enough initially I will let the jar grow on a bit so there is enough colonised grain that I only have to shake it once.
I find you just get a feel for it if you experiment.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: weetsie]
#23406350 - 07/03/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
weetsie said:
When to shake depends IMO.
Pink oyster has myc that runs right through the grain like it's ignoring it. If you shake it after 2 days or about an inch of growth it can be 100% colonised within a further 3 days.
The myc on my cordyceps seems to break off and stick to uncolonised grain when you shake it so even though it's pretty slow growing, you can shake it aggressively with the tiniest bit of growth and it recovers from hundreds of sites looking as if it had been shook at 50%.
Some species grow thick and tough mycelium that is just too hard to break up when it's a small clump making early shaking pointless.
For cubes I like to shake them twice, once after the wedge has colonised 2 grains deep around the wedge then again once those grains have colonised the immediate grain. If I didn't shake them early enough initially I will let the jar grow on a bit so there is enough colonised grain that I only have to shake it once.
I find you just get a feel for it if you experiment.
this is mush cult, so we are talking about actives, not edibles.
everytime you shake your cubes, you are weakening the culture. this is why you want to reduce the number of shakes to as few as possible. 1 shake, at 30% is all you want.
no need to experiment when this shit has been thousands of times before you and figured out already.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: Munchauzen]
#23406669 - 07/03/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said: this is mush cult, so we are talking about actives, not edibles.
everytime you shake your cubes, you are weakening the culture. this is why you want to reduce the number of shakes to as few as possible. 1 shake, at 30% is all you want.
no need to experiment when this shit has been thousands of times before you and figured out already.
The edibles are two specific examples of why you should observe what happens when you shake, my point is to experiment. I'm not trying to give advice on growing edibles.
Of course you weaken the myc when you smash it up but do you think it has a lasting effect once it's recovered? Think how many times 3rd generation g2g spawn is shaken (minimum 6 times with 1 shake at 30%) yet it works just fine. Shaking cubes twice is significantly faster than waiting for a single inoculation point to colonise to 30% which is why I do it.
As ever I think the attitude of "this is case closed, don't bother thinking about it" sucks.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Loc: Milky way
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: weetsie] 1
#23406714 - 07/03/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't believe in the weakening mycelium from shakes hypothesis. Is there real evidence that it reduced yield or performance ? I've left jars at 100 shook, forgot to spawn. So shook again the next week. Those jars get shook 3-4 times vs 1-2. If there's a difference its basically immeasurable
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: weetsie]
#23406738 - 07/03/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
weetsie said: As ever I think the attitude of "this is case closed, don't bother thinking about it" sucks. 
I'm always open to new ideas when I see them.
Edited by Munchauzen (07/03/16 11:08 AM)
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23406744 - 07/03/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: I don't believe in the weakening mycelium from shakes hypothesis. Is there real evidence that it reduced yield or performance ? I've left jars at 100 shook, forgot to spawn. So shook again the next week. Those jars get shook 3-4 times vs 1-2. If there's a difference its basically immeasurable
but would you do this on purpose? that is, shake your grain during colonization 3-4 times, not after 100%. I'm inclined to think there might be some differences between shaking fully colonized spawn, and partially colonized spawn, but thats just my gut talkin.
Edited by Munchauzen (07/03/16 11:19 AM)
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
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Loc: Oklahoma.
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: frankwhite85]
#23407252 - 07/03/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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A few shakes is ok. A few shakes helps keep the moisture distributed evenly, as well as, speeds colonization.
Shaking it once is better that shaking it twice. Not shaking at all is best for the mycelium.
It's true that with cube myce it degrades slightly after being shook.
That's why I like to use high spawn ratios, and/or multiple colonized wedges to inoculate single jars with.
Shaking cube myce is like you taking a bad ass beating. Sometimes you don't recover.
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frankwhite85
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Registered: 04/18/16
Posts: 305
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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Re: agar wedge to grain-shake twice during colonization? [Re: hamloaf]
#23407360 - 07/03/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm hoping once I get strong monocultures down only shaking one time will suffice.
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