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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Single drum steriliser
#23399229 - 06/30/16 10:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm wondering if something as simple as this could work.
In terms of parts it would be very cheap for me to build
float valve £8 gate valve £5 3KW boiler element £7 tank connectors £10 45gal drum £10 PID (inc relay and thermocouple) £10
I have plenty of scrap to build a stand off and rack as well as insulation.
All in all £50 or $65 
If I have a PID set to around 105c or 220f the pressure should maintain around 3psi or so. The gate valve would be left slightly open to allow a constant flow of steam over the bags.
Any input would be appreciated.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Gr0wer
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23399478 - 06/30/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yup, make sure you use a good SS valve, the $25 ebay one has been working great for me. Use a 25 PSI drip pressure regulator off the spigot Use high temp garden hose I recently added a sight gauge at the water level, comes in handy I went with LUBE LSP151-06-01
I spent about $300 on this rig, works really well. $65 is what i paid for the drum alone, open top plastics are hard to find. Only had it flood once on me when i adjusted the float and didn't check the height to clear the rack. I plan to upgrade to a 85 gal SS drum and 2 or 3KW element at my new home.
Video on my sterilizer
Tek on steamers I wrote, i need to add drakes steam shed, that could be scaled up or down as needed. https://www.shroomery.org/13593/Bulk-Steamer-Designs
Edited by Gr0wer (06/30/16 11:46 PM)
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23399631 - 07/01/16 12:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gr0wer said: Yup, make sure you use a good SS valve, the $25 ebay one has been working great for me. Use a 25 PSI drip pressure regulator off the spigot Use high temp garden hose I recently added a sight gauge at the water level, comes in handy I went with LUBE LSP151-06-01
I spent about $300 on this rig, works really well. $65 is what i paid for the drum alone, open top plastics are hard to find. Only had it flood once on me when i adjusted the float and didn't check the height to clear the rack. I plan to upgrade to a 85 gal SS drum and 2 or 3KW element at my new home.
Tek on steamers I wrote, i need to add drakes steam shed, that could be scaled up or down as needed. https://www.shroomery.org/13593/Bulk-Steamer-Designs
I have a few steel and open top plastic drums, they must be in less demand in the UK as I've seen them as cheap as £5. I'm more worried about leaking than anything else, I might try using a plastic drum.
Could you link me to the drip pressure regulator you mentioned? I'm confused as to what it does in the system so I wouldn't know what to look for.
Is the heater controlled by a PID or run constantly? I saw the thermocouple in the video but figured that might just be for controlling pasteurising temps.
The filtered blower is genius, a couple of hours ago I was thinking along the lines of insulation on a chicken wire frame so it could be lifted off after each run to cool.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Gr0wer
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23400237 - 07/01/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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https://www.google.com/search?q=25+psi+drip+regulator&oq=25+psi+drip&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.4425j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
The purpose of the regulator is to take stress off the float. Its a lot easier for the float to shut off 25 psi vs 60-80. You are less likely to get a hung float valve with less pressure.
I no longer use forced air to cool. It worked for the XL bags but the L bags pack in tighter and seal off. The blower dosent push any air past the bags. I use no spacers and no racks, bags get packed in by the layer.
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SpeakSoftly
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23401009 - 07/01/16 12:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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These low pressure release valves work very well for keeping psi in check. https://www.grainger.com/product/CONTROL-DEVICES-Brass-Pressure-Relief-Valve-36JN35?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/36JN35_AS01?$smthumb$
I've got mine set at 2 psi, and back when I used a gas burner they would release like clockwork. I've found now that I've got mine automated with PID set at 215f my sterilizer stays right at 1 psi.
You may want to include a 5psi blow off valve for safety. Design looks good though
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Thanks guys, just the reassurance I needed to commit to this.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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SpeakSoftly
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@Grower, do you still plan on going vertical with the 85 gallon drum?
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Gr0wer
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Loc: El Paso, TX
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Yes. Much simpler design and takes up less floor space and packs much more weight vs horizontal drums, i can pack about 220-240 lbs in bags in one 55 gal drum.
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saintpedro
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23405842 - 07/03/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm thinking of building a similar design to yours Grower, looks like the business. I was wondering, how often does your element switch on to bring the water back up to temperature? I'm guessing a good amount of insulation helps greatly in this, but I'm still worried about the electricity bill for a 24hr run! Thanks!
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: saintpedro]
#23405907 - 07/03/16 01:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Even if it ran 100% of the time that would only be $3-4 or so right?
seems cheap enough for 200+ lbs of sub.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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saintpedro
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23406125 - 07/03/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I pay 30 cents per kWh where I am (in NZ). So running a 3kW element for 24hrs would run up $22NZD ($16USD). But I've no idea really how much of the time the element would be on, perhaps only half of the run time.
Edited by saintpedro (07/03/16 06:18 AM)
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MorePies
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Quote:
SpeakSoftly said: These low pressure release valves work very well for keeping psi in check. https://www.grainger.com/product/CONTROL-DEVICES-Brass-Pressure-Relief-Valve-36JN35?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/36JN35_AS01?$smthumb$
I've got mine set at 2 psi, and back when I used a gas burner they would release like clockwork. I've found now that I've got mine automated with PID set at 215f my sterilizer stays right at 1 psi.
You may want to include a 5psi blow off valve for safety. Design looks good though
Cool. How did you install and calibrate such a thing? Do you have a pressure gage too?
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PsilocyBen17
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: MorePies]
#23406551 - 07/03/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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where do you guys get the elements that go inside the drum?
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PsilocyBen17
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I'm a bit of a newb with the whole electricity thing....
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Submersible-Water-Heater-Element-12-VOLT-600-Watt-UL-Low-Voltage-battery-/172069304056?hash=item28102136f8:g:aZEAAOSwGotWntoX
Where do you find a cord for one of these? How do you make it work? And appologies if I'm threadjacking.
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Loc: El Paso, TX
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I run a 1500w element for 24 hours at 100%, direct wired to a plug and left in, so it would be $8 for saintpedro to run it. It would cost me about $3 if i was paying for electricity.
1500w https://www.amazon.com/Camco-02143-Screw--Heater-Element/dp/B0006IX89Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467566028&sr=8-1&keywords=1500w+element
The cord is 12-2 SJOOW cord from home depot.
enclosure for wiring if your threading into a plastic drum of a fitting https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotpod-ewl.htm
enclosure for wiring if your using a locknut on the inside of a steel or SS drum https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotpod-ewl3.htm
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PsilocyBen17
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23406908 - 07/03/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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hmmm it takes 24 hours for you guys to get up to proper temps? I'm looking at something for a garage build but it is off site so I'd hate to leave it running while im not there.....maybe an electric turkey fryer is a better idea? I dont have any experience with drum pasturization yet but am moving in that direction.
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Gr0wer
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Registered: 09/16/03
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If your using a steel or SS drum there isn't much to worry about. Even if the drum runs dry the element will just pop. You can also use a larger element and put a pressure relief for a pressurized run to shorten the cycle.
Edited by Gr0wer (07/03/16 09:04 PM)
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23408454 - 07/03/16 09:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I must admit a turkey fryer would not be my first thought if I was worried about safety
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saintpedro
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Registered: 04/06/06
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23411475 - 07/04/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why does it take 24 hours to achieve full sterilization? Reading about Roger Rabbits 55 gallon setup, it seems he runs for 8 hours once steam is being generated in the system. Maybe I'm missing something?
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Gr0wer
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: saintpedro]
#23412139 - 07/04/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I only use 1500w (5k BTU) to heat 240 lbs of sub+ 40 lbs of water and drum. It takes a while for the little element to get everything to temp, about 12 hours to hit boiling core temps, then i run it another 12 to sterilize. RR uses way more BTU and higher pressure and temps, i believe he uses a fire which is probably like 60,000+ BTU. A typical propane turkey burner is like 20-80K BTU. Thing is an electric element is like 99% efficient with transferring heat to the water since its submerged. A flame under a drum is maybe 50-70%. Unless your using natural gas electric is typically the cheaper option VS propane. I'm limited to a 15A circuit so a 1500w element is my limit at about 12A continuous, and the same circuit also runs 1/2 my living room. I'm in a rental property so its far from optimal.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23412166 - 07/04/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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RR only runs 100lbs of substrate at a time too and uses the entire drum with a separate boiler.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23412196 - 07/04/16 11:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yea so he has all the bags spaced out, so they all heat evenly, it takes more time for my stacked bags to heat up. Especially the top row. Over cooking bags is not an issue.
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saintpedro
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23412384 - 07/05/16 12:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ah right, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up guys.
I see your point, Grower, about the efficiency of electric vs gas, especially if the sterilizer is outside with a howling wind (which is pretty much everyday here at the moment being winter!). Cheers for the information, looks like you've learnt alot through trial and error, nice setup you've got going.
Would be keen to see how your build goes weetsie.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: saintpedro]
#23412400 - 07/05/16 01:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will certainly post how it goes.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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poofterFroth
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23412679 - 07/05/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It might be worth experimenting with bringing your temps. up using a high BTU burner, then switching over to hold the temp. using an electric element. Turkey burners are to small but you can find much higher BTU cookers if you look at brewing suppliers online.
Another option would be to mount your barrel or boiler over a modified rocket-stove set up. Just really trying to harness all the available energy from a wood fire. 8-12 hrs is already a really long time so anyway to cut down time on getting the thing to temp. is important.
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Gr0wer
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Well its not like im watching the thing all 24 hours. I load it at night then turn it on around 10-12 then unplug it before i go to bed the next day. I could run two elements or run a larger element but right now im limited by the houses electrical and honestly KISS is working for me. I do this on a weekly routine so its not like im in any sort of a rush. It takes a good 2 days to cool anyways.
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SpeakSoftly
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23414269 - 07/05/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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As someone who has used gas to heat my sterilizer, I can tell you it is not worth it. A FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS. Dangerous. Expensive. 23$ per 40 bag run.
I think the cost to run the same load now that I have it all electric is about 3-4$ per 40 bag run... It is easy, you plug it in and walk away. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23395012
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SpeakSoftly
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: MorePies]
#23414285 - 07/05/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said:
Quote:
SpeakSoftly said: These low pressure release valves work very well for keeping psi in check. https://www.grainger.com/product/CONTROL-DEVICES-Brass-Pressure-Relief-Valve-36JN35?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/36JN35_AS01?$smthumb$
I've got mine set at 2 psi, and back when I used a gas burner they would release like clockwork. I've found now that I've got mine automated with PID set at 215f my sterilizer stays right at 1 psi.
You may want to include a 5psi blow off valve for safety. Design looks good though
Cool. How did you install and calibrate such a thing? Do you have a pressure gage too?
Yes, I have a 5 psi gauge in line with the boiler. I simply adjusted the valves till they started sputtering at 2 psi, and they helped keep it in check.
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MorePies
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So that valve you linked is adjustable? I just spoke to grainger and they didn't seem to think it was adjustable or that it was intended for steam.
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: MorePies]
#23415049 - 07/05/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said: So that valve you linked is adjustable? I just spoke to grainger and they didn't seem to think it was adjustable or that it was intended for steam.
Did you by any chance talk to a woman?
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MorePies
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: Gr0wer]
#23415188 - 07/05/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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No. I did not. They said it's for air compressor tanks.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: MorePies]
#23415362 - 07/05/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Its rated to like 250f. So other than the extra moisture and probably a steel spring that can rust it should be fine. A lot of times you can take it apwrt and replace the spring with a ss spring.
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SpeakSoftly
Stranger



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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: MorePies]
#23416299 - 07/06/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm honestly not sure that was the one I bought, it looks the same but may not be. The one I bought adjust from 0-20psi and can be used for a vacuum or a release. (you just switch the spring as per instructions) Not sure if I got it from Grainger or amazon.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Test run tomorrow
After buying some 200mm loft insulation to wrap this thing I should be done, all in all it's cost me less than $50. I plan to make a second frame that will drop onto the stand you can see for a second shelf.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23491813 - 07/30/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did a small 6 hour test run with 3 spawn bags in it, 22lbs of grain total.
It came out looking really nice, going to do another batch in a couple of days with 100lbs of grain, going to try some jars in there too.
Only hiccup so far was melting the plug into the wall socket.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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drake89
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23491920 - 07/30/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oh man going for steamed grain right off the bat! I'd say you're gonna have a lot of trouble with that setup. Seal your bags before if you can, and run it for 12-24hrs.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: drake89]
#23491949 - 07/30/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I sealed the bags up first.
Going to run it much longer when it's full, I would of done it for longer this time round but i was tired and wanted to go to sleep so I knocked it off.
I'm using it for oysters so I'm pretty confident I'll get away with 6 hours this time, either way I'll post how it turns out.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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drake89
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23491967 - 07/30/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
weetsie said: I sealed the bags up first.
Going to run it much longer when it's full, I would of done it for longer this time round but i was tired and wanted to go to sleep so I knocked it off.
I'm using it for oysters so I'm pretty confident I'll get away with 6 hours this time, either way I'll post how it turns out.
Yes you can probably get away with it for your G2s on, but start with grain that's been cooked at pressure. Might try adding hydrated lime to kill bacteria that survive, like 1% of your dry grain weight.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: drake89]
#23492004 - 07/30/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah these 10lb bags take 3 days to colonize if you dump a quart jar of oyster in them.
Sterilizing grain jars and inoculating with agar would be the ultimate test, especially with slower species. If that doesn't work out it's no big deal, as long as it works for G2G I'm happy to use a pressure cooker to get things started.
At what point would you add hydrated lime to grain?
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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drake89
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23492035 - 07/30/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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In the stuff you're steaming with no pressure.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: drake89]
#23492210 - 07/30/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah I ment like at what point in the grain prep.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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drake89
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: weetsie]
#23493956 - 07/30/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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in the soaking water
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Single drum steriliser [Re: drake89]
#23493980 - 07/30/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Got ya, I'll remember that should I have problems.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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