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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: Snazz]
    #23475012 - 07/25/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Well I agree that water is a huge factor. That's why I am always more worried about wet weights. In my mind the dry weight will follow, but I want maximum water usage. I find that if there is insufficient water to begin with, the fruits simply abort in order to allow the rest to mature. However this seems to often be ineffective as much of the water seems to remain.

I worked it out and each tub had about 1.8 liters of water in them (a little less for the poo tubs and a little more for the coir). With an average wet weight of 915 grams that means that the amount of water that ended up in the fruits was about was about 45% of the total water in the sub. This is about bang on in terms of efficient water use. I figure that probably 25-30% gets either consumed during cellular resperation and providing humidity to the tub which puts me right about 70-75% water consumed. This is my personal aim for what I feel is going to be the benchmark for an efficient grow. If you want it all in the first flush, better start tracking wet weights and BE. Dry weight at the end of the day tells me fairly little other than I have some fruits.


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OfflineBaronVonBud
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Re: Clone test [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23475145 - 07/25/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

There's no logical reason really
Most people who use poo do poo/Verm/ gypsum tho don't they or is that outdated?

Is hpoo or coir more resistant to contamination ?


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Edited by BaronVonBud (07/25/16 10:49 AM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23475154 - 07/25/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BaronVonBud said:
There's no logical reason really
Most people who use poo do poo/Verm/ gypsum tho don't they or is that outdated




I think most people who use poo use something else to buff up the texture. It's too muddy otherwise. Personally I don't really see a reason to not use coir with poo unless you have access to loads of verm for cheap or a bale of straw. I'm almost out of straw myself so that's why I didn't use it for this run.

Coir is far more resistant to contams. By far.


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OfflineBaronVonBud
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Re: Clone test [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23475164 - 07/25/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

based on your side by side comparison I may start trying coir without poo
Poo is free but it cost gas money and brings in a weak link who may start wondering why I'm always making compost and Google horse poo uses

I've yet to make my own bulk substrate tho I just have it all lined up with a farmer who thinks I make compost.  I used to pay big money for it but what ever the sponsors mix in is what I'm used to


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Edited by BaronVonBud (07/25/16 10:55 AM)


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Clone test [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23475169 - 07/25/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Poo is pretty cool, although this growlog showed different, my grows went better with it. I was using straw as well so that might have contributed. I mostly went with poo because coir is ridiculously expensive where I'm from, or at least, it used to be. I just found these large bricks of coir for pretty cheap though, if the quality is good, I will definitely keep some on hand after the summer.


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OfflineBaronVonBud
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Re: Clone test [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23475181 - 07/25/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I can get organic coir for about 4.50 a brick I think it's 650g dry and going to get free poo would be more than that in gas and time.A few hours on a day off are worth more than 4.50


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23475187 - 07/25/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Poo makes for a nice robust substrate. But that is easily achieved by the addition of worm castings to coir. I think of coir as a great filler for just about anything. It has great water retention, can be used as casing, most woodlovers eat it as well, it's like a universal substrate IMO. It's cheap, takes little space, easy as pie to prep.

I have said over and over that the most nutrition in any bulk grow comes from the grain. You can spawn to straight verm and see good results. Only thing is that verm is expensive by comparison and very bulky. As for the nutes making the potency, I spawned some APE to plain verm a few years ago and they were as potent as hell. Verm has almost no nutrition period. Genetics is the main concern there.

Nothing I have done here is new, I'm just the first one to bother running it side by side.


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: Clone test [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23475208 - 07/25/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I believe Nitrogen is not required when using grain spawn.  It's normally the limiting factor for how many animo acids/proteins can be synthesized by the organism.


My recent tests are to supplement zinc, fatty acids and glucosides.


Various published papers write about zinc being very important in synthesis pathways



Edited by Snazz (07/25/16 11:18 AM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: Snazz]
    #23475220 - 07/25/16 11:16 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Snazz said:
I believe Nitrogen is not required when using grain spawn.  It's normally the limiting factor for how many animo acids/proteins can be synthesized by the organism.




I agree completely. It's just people who bash coir tend to use that as the argument because coir is low in it. Nitrogen is used to synthesize many alkaloids in the fungal world but I feel that less is needed than commonly thought. At any rate there have been professionally executed experiments showing that simply increasing the amount is not beneficial anyways, there are limits to how much the organisim can process.

It's like vitamins. You can plug yourself full of em and just end up with neon piss. If you use coffee in your soak water chances are you have more than enough for the mushrooms needs right in the grain spawn.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Clone test [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23475228 - 07/25/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

dilated did the same thing a while back with 2 tubs 1 isolate and got pretty much equal results as well.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20875882

you hear a lot of talk about poo vs coir but the few documented side-by-sides i've seen dont show much difference at all.

I think you can train a culture to like a certain sub over generations, to what degree it really makes a difference IDK but :shrug:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: spacechildo]
    #23475238 - 07/25/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks space, I forgot about that one. Seems that the science is repeatable. I remember now that some people disputing his results because the Hpoo wasn't shredded fine enough. Well I will tell you that the hpoo used in my run was shredded very fine.


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: Clone test [Re: spacechildo]
    #23475245 - 07/25/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Hpoo is kinda supplemented straw, depending on their diet.  I could see some transport benefits plus protection via narrow band bacteria colonization. 


But from what I experienced from these cpir tubs, coir is amazing for water retention and transport plus is quite resistant to contams


Definitely my bulk of choice now.  Will definitely try it out with my P. Sub project


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Invisibleuncle_rico
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Re: Clone test [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23475360 - 07/25/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome awesome thread, Pasty.

Thank you for making the effort to measure and document it all.

I have followed the coir vs. hpoo threads with interest and, until now, haven't known what to think ... which is why I've always used the 'blended diet' approach.

handful of Hpoo, handful of Verm, and a couple of handfuls of Coir.  and it has worked. and I do PE so I am kinda locked on to using some Hpoo.  old habits die hard.

If I can take Hpoo out of the mix,  my life has just become much easier

Those weights from 2 qts of spawn? ... geeeeez dude!
nice


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: uncle_rico]
    #23475370 - 07/25/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks rico, glad people have enjoyed. This might be the only grow log I do this year so I am stoked that it's been worthwhile.


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OfflineHugh Jorgan
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Re: Clone test [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23475381 - 07/25/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

absolutely. Pasty plates cant be beat for simplicity and price. Easiest way to get into agar. You can buy most everything you need other than a Pressure cooker at most high end markets or health food stores including the agar itself. its a no brainer.


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OfflineBaronVonBud
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Re: Clone test [Re: Hugh Jorgan]
    #23475401 - 07/25/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I was looking at the pasty plates and another that's basically the same but with glass jars
Anytime you can get something at the grocery store vs ordering lab supplies it's a no brainier
I just have to grow the balls to open lids in my SAB and I'm set for basically everything I'll ever need to do


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Clone test [Re: BaronVonBud]
    #23475404 - 07/25/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you feel like you need "the balls" to open lids in a SAB then what you really need is a solidified understanding of what's going on.  You shouldn't be afraid of the SAB if you know how it works.


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OfflinePutACapInHisAss
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Re: Clone test [Re: Snazz]
    #23475467 - 07/25/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Finally made it through, thanks Pasty! I'm gonna figure out how to dial my tubs in with micropore--so much more convenient than any type of polyester.

Quote:

Snazz said:
Various published papers write about zinc being very important in synthesis pathways





I have read on Shroomery a mention of an old scientific study stating that the most potent cubies were produced on brown rice.

Brown rice is considered a high zinc food at .5 mg per 3 cooked ounces. Oats and rye are much higher  at 3.4 mg and 2.3 mg, respectively, for the same amount.


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Invisiblemupetmower
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Re: Clone test [Re: PutACapInHisAss]
    #23475471 - 07/25/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PutACapInHisAss said:


I have read on Shroomery a mention of an old scientific study stating that the most potent cubies were produced on brown rice.

Brown rice is considered a high zinc food at .5 mg per 3 cooked ounces. Oats and rye are much higher  at 3.4 mg and 2.3 mg, respectively, for the same amount.




old being the key word. i doubt this is the case. i mean, i have no proof, but if it were true, im sure people wouldnt be using grains as much as they are.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Clone test [Re: mupetmower]
    #23475499 - 07/25/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I may do a writeup on dialing in tubs with micropore. It's actually a pretty easy thing to teach cause its a standardized product. If you do it exactly as shown it will always work.


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