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OfflineAsshat331
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Help with bad trich issue
    #23396958 - 06/30/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ever sense the weather warmed up I Have had 2 tubs with trich on the first flush and about 2-3 that made it to a second flush and only 1 tub made it to 3 flushes.

I wash the tubs and polyfill with soapy water, and re use them.


Are there trich spores in my grow room?

Should i sterilize my polyfill and or wipe my tubs with alcohol or bleach? (I feel like washing doesn't get all the mold out.)

Is the heat effecting the humidity? it can get up to 80-85°F  during the day in that room? (putting a window unit in to help. My gf keeps a leopard gecko and axolotls in teh same room.)

My grains look great and i haven't changed my pasteurization technique so i feel it must be something a long these lines.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell



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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23396974 - 06/30/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asshat331 said:
My grains look great and i haven't changed my pasteurization technique so i feel it must be something a long these lines.



Unfortunately this is most likely the issue. Your grains. There's much more to it than is it white and does it smell shroomy. First off do you inoculate with agar?

Secondly, do you have pics of your grains? Also do you PC your jars for a minimum of 2 hours?

Grains are the hardest part of this hobby, and everyone always seems to think their grains are clean, but still get contams. I'm sorry but we spawn in open air, and fruit in open air. Bulk substrate is fine with it all. With clean spawn you don't even have to wash your chambers, and use the same poly from 2012 (that's what I do). What matters is the vigor of the spawn.


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Offlinejsncrs
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23396981 - 06/30/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What prep method did you use for your substrate?

I originally used the bucket prep method for my gourmet grows and had a lot of problems with trich. Then I started properly pastuerising my sub and haven't had an issue since

Also a deep clean of your grow space will help, wipe everything down with bleach or something similar and vacuum carpets, curtains, etc a number of times.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: jsncrs]
    #23396985 - 06/30/16 10:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If only that would work. Bleach does literally shit for killing contam spores. That's why places don't use bleach to kill spores. Vacuuming just knocks everything into the air.

If you used the bucket tek with manure that makes sense why it was like that, but from coir... that's definitely not the problem. Coir can be sterilized and work just fine. Pasteurization is for things with microbes, which coir does not.


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Mad Season]
    #23396997 - 06/30/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
If only that would work. Bleach does literally shit for killing contam spores. That's why places don't use bleach to kill spores. Vacuuming just knocks everything into the air.

If you used the bucket tek with manure that makes sense why it was like that, but from coir... that's definitely not the problem. Coir can be sterilized and work just fine. Pasteurization is for things with microbes, which coir does not.




:whathesaid:

I'm thinking that OP's spawn is slightly bacterial. Not much of a problem during winter since the temps aren't optimal for bacterial growth but come summer, and they will have a party.

You always expect a higher contam rate during summer but if you are losing every single grow, chances are something is wrong.


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OfflineAsshat331
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Mad Season]
    #23397018 - 06/30/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I do 1 hour 45 minutes following SPJ's PC TEK. and pasteurize in jars following frank horrigans TEK.

Yeah if the grains look bad at all i throw them out before they become too hard to get out the jar. I'm not new to the hobby and im 99% sure my jars are not contaminated, they are always very white rhizomorphic mushroom aromic when i break them up to spawn.

I don't take pictures much anymore but Can of this batch of 14 jars i innoced just recently using spore syringes.

I used some old agar on 4 of those jars and one had white fuzz mold on it already so i tossed it.


I just built a Flowhood so i plan on doing more grain 2 grain and agar from here on out.

That sab was so cramped.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell



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OfflineAsshat331
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23397023 - 06/30/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:
If only that would work. Bleach does literally shit for killing contam spores. That's why places don't use bleach to kill spores. Vacuuming just knocks everything into the air.

If you used the bucket tek with manure that makes sense why it was like that, but from coir... that's definitely not the problem. Coir can be sterilized and work just fine. Pasteurization is for things with microbes, which coir does not.




:whathesaid:

I'm thinking that OP's spawn is slightly bacterial. Not much of a problem during winter since the temps aren't optimal for bacterial growth but come summer, and they will have a party.

You always expect a higher contam rate during summer but if you are losing every single grow, chances are something is wrong.






Should i PC longer?

Where i live it takes no less than 5 hours for grains to fully dry because its so humid. For the longest times my grains would come out to wet, And i fixed that issue.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell



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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23397029 - 06/30/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:
It looks bacterial IMO.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21890806#21890806 bacteria in spawn. You can also get it from prepping the substrate too wet. If you read in the link it explains what happened when I spawned bacterial spawn.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/remlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=149430&F_Board=22&Thread=21936821&Main=21936535

Read both of those thoroughly.



Bacterial spawn, notice all the myc I called bacterial is thick white, almost like cottage cheese, as well as a few wet uncolonized grains. I PCd those jars for 2 hours and still saw bacteria. Definitely up PC times.


This bitch shows that even in agar contams can be hidden. The hidden white contam I had had literally no smell to it, and it looked retardedly close to myc.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22020260

Here's another link that might help.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22255723


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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OfflineAsshat331
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23397048 - 06/30/16 10:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The pictures in that bottom link wont enlarge.

But upping PC time i can do, The grains really do look fine im going to take many pictures this time bc i want to nail this problem.

I miss getting 4-5 flushes the shrooms would get so huge.


This trich is nasty shit too, grows out of the dirt on top of the cakes i bury outside even.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell



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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Mad Season]
    #23397050 - 06/30/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asshat331 said:

Yeah if the grains look bad at all i throw them out before they become too hard to get out the jar. I'm not new to the hobby and im 99% sure my jars are not contaminated, they are always very white rhizomorphic mushroom aromic when i break them up to spawn.







Quote:

Mad Season said:

Unfortunately this is most likely the issue. Your grains. There's much more to it than is it white and does it smell shroomy. First off do you inoculate with agar?






^^^^That

Bacterial spawn can smell perfectly fine, it might grow shrooms perfectly fine too but it also has the possibility of letting molds germinate and grow after spawning.

A small amount of bacteria can be very hard to see. Just very recently, a shroomerite posted pictures of seemingly perfect spawn show signs of bacteria only after it was left a for a week after full colonization. If he just spawned the bags when they colonized, he wouldn't even have known that he was spawning bacterial spawn.

As was stated above, summer temps can increase bulk contam rates but if you are losing one grow after another, there are definitely other factors at play here.

Grains coming out wet from a PC cycle is fine, that usually clears up within 24 hours. You should only worry if the grains don't dry at all.


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OfflineHugh Jorgan
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23397081 - 06/30/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If humidity is causing you to have wet grains you might consider oats. You can prep them just a bit under-hydated and load them up wet. they will soak up the remaining moisture during the PC cycle. Oats are very forgiving.


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OfflinePerception7
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Hugh Jorgan]
    #23397306 - 06/30/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I hope to get better at noticing bacteria as the years go by but right now all of the identification eludes me. If its white and smells good I fruit it and haven't had anything contam on me yet. I had one bacterial issue awhile back but the tray still fruited fine, and never produced trich.

It's mostly due to the rise in temperature for you I suspect OP, just get the temps down if at all possible to 76 or below. I have read once you have a tub go green and sporulate it can fuck up future grows pretty bad. I have read you can get Oust Air Disinfectant spray and nuke your grow room really good (if there is a better brand please inform).

Thank you for the links Mad Season, I will be looking at those closer after work.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23066513



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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Perception7]
    #23397558 - 06/30/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Did nobody catch where he said he was using a syringe? I know you said you used some old agar but you made it sound like you mostly use syringes


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: maddchef]
    #23397573 - 06/30/16 01:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I did see it. Forgot to mention it. Been a really busy morning. It is why I showed the hidden contams thread tho


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
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OfflineAsshat331
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: maddchef]
    #23402739 - 07/01/16 11:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
Did nobody catch where he said he was using a syringe? I know you said you used some old agar but you made it sound like you mostly use syringes





This is true, i use spore syringes 90% of the time with some G2G and Agar when i feel up to it. Now that i have a flowhood i plan on doing much more G2G and Agar.

Sporeworks has those wonderful sales twice a year so i don't feel like im breaking the bank using syringes and i leave a ml worth in each syringe so i can transfer it to agar plates when i feel like it.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell



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OfflineMycoGawd
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23402870 - 07/02/16 01:17 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Make sure the substrate doesnt feel wet to the touch and trying testing for field capacity. Scoop out a handful of subtrate, squeeze hard and only 1 or 2 drops should drip out. Sanitizing/ sterilizing the tub should help. Also, mold spores or trich spores might already be present in your grains....


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: MycoGawd]
    #23402877 - 07/02/16 01:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Depends on what your bulk is. Field capacity for coir is a few drops with a squeeze and a single small stream of water with a hard squeeze. I am not sure if all poo needs to be hydrated less but composted manure and straw definitely has to. When I used field aged poo and verm, I hydrated to normal field capacity (like coir) and I got good results. Maybe I was just lucky, I'm sure mad season can tell us more. He is the poo king around these parts.


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OfflineAsshat331
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23402888 - 07/02/16 01:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I use just coir and verm, my field capacity was good.

I think i might have partially sterilized my substrate, I just can't think of anything i did wrong or seemed off when i spawned these tubs.


--------------------
Things change fast, but this too shall pass
Better carve it on your forehead or tattoo it on your ass
Cause who can tell, when the clock strikes twelve
If today’s become tomorrow or if it’s all just gone to hell



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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Asshat331]
    #23403049 - 07/02/16 04:15 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Again. Coir doesn't need to be pasteurized. Pasteurization is for substrates with microbes. Coir is packaged and sterilized at around 1000F, so it's more than partially sterilized. It's entirely sterilized. There's absolutely no microbes in there. Thats why it doesn't matter what you do with your coir. Poo and straw need pasteurization, definitely not coir. I could pull infinite amounts of quotes supporting this, but I'm buttfuck tired lol.

Your spawn was definitely off man. You can scratch your ass during spawning and sneeze on it every day and it won't contam. People have left sterilized coir out for 6+ months with no contams. Suddenly you add grains and it contams... coincidence? I think not.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/02/16 04:16 AM)


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Offlinetump
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Re: Help with bad trich issue [Re: Mad Season]
    #23403065 - 07/02/16 04:33 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I hear you. My contams are all comeing form local area.  I get trish and molds even without spawning to coir. All you can do is work with cleaner innocate, clean your rooms with bleach. And retry until you start winning again.


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