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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Quote:
beforethedawn said: Yeah mate I mean that's more or less my sentiments.
But I mean I think he's probably a nice guy under it, from what I can sense.

Yeah he seems like a thoughtful guy, just stuck in a rut of repetitive crap. I've been in one and anti-depressants worked for me.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Universaleyeni
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Registered: 04/18/13
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Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Synchronicity/Awakening [Re: Thanatos10]
#23400332 - 07/01/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I also know how fallible the human mind and perception can be, and that to be sure of yourself based on personal experience is a dangerous way to live.
Your so called experiences have been shown to be affected by the brain. I read of a study that showed how tampering with a specific area of the brain was able to induce an altered visual state.
You should also know the human mind seeks patterns even where none exist. It's in its nature to do that. Mystical experiences may feel real, but so do a lot of things. If there's one thing magicians and illusionists know is how to fool human perception and how fallible it is. Also given how there are visual illusions, auditory, touch, even scent illusions, trusting personal experience becomes less and less solid. I believe the plura for anecdote is "not data". In short, you cannot trust yourself. You cannot even prove reality to be real.
If you wait on the scientific data to show it, you will wait an eternity. But people will believe what they want to believe, history has shown that to be true. But I don't think you understand what it means to have an open mind. Science is open, with proof. A personal account doesn't cut it, given how fallible human senses are and memory as well.
Science also acknowledges the possibility of other realities, but that's honestly not on the top of their list of priorities. Our own surivival overrides that. But they didn't need visions to see that.
You place too much value in what you see and experience, even knowing how fallible you are.
Theres alot of stuff science cant explain. Many fields within science theorize on metaphysical occurences, but so many are beyond the scope of science...
If i notice events that are linked and apply the label "synchronicity", then it is. To me. This is my reality. Science would have a hard time proving synchronicity but i m sure its not too far behind.
As for not being able to trust yourself, ouch. Thats rough bro. I can read all day about how the feeling of romantic love is associated with chemical release in the brain, or psychological comfort patterns, or proximity or whatever...but if youve ever fallen so deeply in love with a woman, or had your heart ripped and shitted on, or anything in between, then you know that science is missing quite a bit.
See, i can trust science for shit like the boiling point if water, pressure systems, physics, anatomy, etc...but if you think that science is the end all explanation to life, then man youre missing a big chunk of the picture.
For inner and metaphysical/mystical concepts experience is often times the only tool. If you cant trust yourself, your own perception of things, then your reality is influenced largely from outside sources. Thats rough man.
For instance, you said earlier "mankind is doomed"...waking up with this in mind, your day might go a little differently than your neighbor who wakes up with "cool, lets see what today has in store".
You shape your reality, wether you take responsibility for that or not. Thats real.
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Universaleyeni
Friend



Registered: 04/18/13
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Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Regarding synchronicity, the same rules apply...
If you notice theres 7 cars stopped at the light on 7thstreet, the cd player is on track 7 and its 7:07 pm, and proceed to think "well this is a sign! Imgoing to get a 7$ raise at work!" you may be dissapointed.
If you just watch all this stuff, these little coincidences, and not apply judgement, youll be pleasantly surprised.
For me, when im at my best, these things are more noticeable and obvious. They stack up on eachother all day, and each one makes me happier and brighter like a rising peak! The connection is obvious to me. Synchronicities to me, are like signs on the road that remind me im on track. And they are readily available should i choose to view them.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Universaleyeni said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: I also know how fallible the human mind and perception can be, and that to be sure of yourself based on personal experience is a dangerous way to live.
Your so called experiences have been shown to be affected by the brain. I read of a study that showed how tampering with a specific area of the brain was able to induce an altered visual state.
You should also know the human mind seeks patterns even where none exist. It's in its nature to do that. Mystical experiences may feel real, but so do a lot of things. If there's one thing magicians and illusionists know is how to fool human perception and how fallible it is. Also given how there are visual illusions, auditory, touch, even scent illusions, trusting personal experience becomes less and less solid. I believe the plura for anecdote is "not data". In short, you cannot trust yourself. You cannot even prove reality to be real.
If you wait on the scientific data to show it, you will wait an eternity. But people will believe what they want to believe, history has shown that to be true. But I don't think you understand what it means to have an open mind. Science is open, with proof. A personal account doesn't cut it, given how fallible human senses are and memory as well.
Science also acknowledges the possibility of other realities, but that's honestly not on the top of their list of priorities. Our own surivival overrides that. But they didn't need visions to see that.
You place too much value in what you see and experience, even knowing how fallible you are.
Theres alot of stuff science cant explain. Many fields within science theorize on metaphysical occurences, but so many are beyond the scope of science...
If i notice events that are linked and apply the label "synchronicity", then it is. To me. This is my reality. Science would have a hard time proving synchronicity but i m sure its not too far behind.
As for not being able to trust yourself, ouch. Thats rough bro. I can read all day about how the feeling of romantic love is associated with chemical release in the brain, or psychological comfort patterns, or proximity or whatever...but if youve ever fallen so deeply in love with a woman, or had your heart ripped and shitted on, or anything in between, then you know that science is missing quite a bit.
See, i can trust science for shit like the boiling point if water, pressure systems, physics, anatomy, etc...but if you think that science is the end all explanation to life, then man youre missing a big chunk of the picture.
For inner and metaphysical/mystical concepts experience is often times the only tool. If you cant trust yourself, your own perception of things, then your reality is influenced largely from outside sources. Thats rough man.
For instance, you said earlier "mankind is doomed"...waking up with this in mind, your day might go a little differently than your neighbor who wakes up with "cool, lets see what today has in store".
You shape your reality, wether you take responsibility for that or not. Thats real.
It's a reality everyone has to face; man is likely doomed.
Trusting yourself is in fact quite fallible as you tend to be the worst judge of things. Memory is fallible and so are our senses. They know the sensation of falling in love is chemical and something humans place too much importance on, which is quite damaging. It's what causes people to do stupid things. Trusting yourself is a romantic idea based on many movies, but the reality is that you can't. Your senses can lie, your thoughts, even your experience. People here trust themselves too much knowing all that.
For the record our reality is influenced by outside sources. The sensory data you get from the world as well as the thoughts and words of others. Even where you grew up and the culture your surrounded by. So in a sense you don't shape your reality as much as the outside world and other factors do. The fact that one is human with fallible senses and mind is a factor beyond your control. Also where one grows up.
As for synchronicity, there's nothing to indicate it exists and that it's not just the mind seeking to make patterns out of everything that occurs. You could just be seeing things and feel like there is a connection when there is none. Just like conspiracy theorists. Events are random and within that is the possibility of things lining up for ones benefit; but we take it as a "sign" because it gives a sense of order to a chaotic world.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
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Quote:
Universaleyeni said: Regarding synchronicity, the same rules apply...
If you notice theres 7 cars stopped at the light on 7thstreet, the cd player is on track 7 and its 7:07 pm, and proceed to think "well this is a sign! Imgoing to get a 7$ raise at work!" you may be dissapointed.
If you just watch all this stuff, these little coincidences, and not apply judgement, youll be pleasantly surprised.
For me, when im at my best, these things are more noticeable and obvious. They stack up on eachother all day, and each one makes me happier and brighter like a rising peak! The connection is obvious to me. Synchronicities to me, are like signs on the road that remind me im on track. And they are readily available should i choose to view them.
Or it could just be your mind making patterns where none exist. You can just be taking chances that just work out. Or a string of good decisions. Nothing there would suggest the existence of synchronicity.
The word for it is called confirmation bias. Something humans are very good at.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (07/01/16 09:03 AM)
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Universaleyeni
Friend



Registered: 04/18/13
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Re: Synchronicity/Awakening [Re: Thanatos10]
#23400644 - 07/01/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I hear ya Thanatos, and i agree with some of it. I respect your point of view.
Reality is influenced by the outside world, but to what extent? I think that part is up to the individual. As you know society has standards of beauty, intelligence, status, etc..should my opinions be based on this?
For practical reasons: im not arguing that we shape our reality by saying: "today will not rain, traffic will be light, and everyone i encounter will be super nice to me."
Im arguing that we shape our reality with our emotional judgement by saying: "this rain is beautiful vs pain in the ass, this traffic sucks vs chance to space out, that guy is an asshole vs poor guy is having a bad day."
Should i reference a science book for understanding the mystical experience? Maybe if i want quantifiable data to supplement my understanding of the experience. Not to define it for me though.
Im curious, have you ever been in love? Have you ever tripped? Have you ever had a deep psychedelic experience? Mystical experience? In no way do i ask these questions to be a dick. I d just be amazed to read that you have, and that its all reduced to scientific data.
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Thanatos10
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Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
Universaleyeni said: I hear ya Thanatos, and i agree with some of it. I respect your point of view.
Reality is influenced by the outside world, but to what extent? I think that part is up to the individual. As you know society has standards of beauty, intelligence, status, etc..should my opinions be based on this?
For practical reasons: im not arguing that we shape our reality by saying: "today will not rain, traffic will be light, and everyone i encounter will be super nice to me."
Im arguing that we shape our reality with our emotional judgement by saying: "this rain is beautiful vs pain in the ass, this traffic sucks vs chance to space out, that guy is an asshole vs poor guy is having a bad day."
Should i reference a science book for understanding the mystical experience? Maybe if i want quantifiable data to supplement my understanding of the experience. Not to define it for me though.
Im curious, have you ever been in love? Have you ever tripped? Have you ever had a deep psychedelic experience? Mystical experience? In no way do i ask these questions to be a dick. I d just be amazed to read that you have, and that its all reduced to scientific data.
I have had a few experiences, but now instead of accepting them as mystical and the like I try to consider other options that seem more realistic. Love and such things may feel and seem mystical when you don't open your mind to other reasons. We know love is chemical, that's the powerful overtaking. Current science can also explain some mysticism as misconception.
But I find people here place too much importance on their own experience, without the possibility that they can be wrong or deluded. That experience overrides everything else. To me that's a dangerous notion to have.
And that shaping you talk is just changing your view point or way of thinking. But people make it seem mystical by using terms like "transmuting emotion" or "energy". When in fact it's as simple as considering another take and which is more beneficial.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Synchronicity/Awakening [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23400764 - 07/01/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanatos10 said: But I find people here place too much importance on their own experience...
I understand what you are saying, but in the end, what do we have but our own experience to determine anything? In truth, we're all just going on faith that anything has anything to do with anything. Appeals to science do indeed fall into this category, ultimately.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,221
Loc: PNW
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Great replies, I thought they were all very interesting and I was provided perspective from each one.
In the end, we all believe what we want, it creates our reality, I don't say this shit anywhere besides to people of like minded, open minded individuals, well because let's face it, the normal person wouldn't have a clue what im talking about, because you guys have experienced what it means to be open minded, at some point in your life 
And no, its not something I FULLY committ to as it cant be FULLY proven, thatd be stupid. I keep an open mind, and I keep my personal experiences close to my heart.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: But I find people here place too much importance on their own experience...
I understand what you are saying, but in the end, what do we have but our own experience to determine anything? In truth, we're all just going on faith that anything has anything to do with anything. Appeals to science do indeed fall into this category, ultimately.
Sad but true and one of the bitter pills one must swallow in science. It's imperfect but the best we can do with what we know.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Universaleyeni
Friend



Registered: 04/18/13
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Quote:
Eclipse3130 said: I don't say this shit anywhere besides to people of like minded, open minded individuals, well because let's face it, the normal person wouldn't have a clue what im talking about...
I thought we were the normal ones 
To Thanatos, same way we shouldnt place all the weight on experience, it may be equally enclosing to place all weight on science. I believe the truth lies in the ways these different vantage points complement each other.
As for love being chemical...what came first the chicken or the egg?
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
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Well considering "normal" is just a standard accepted way of living and thinking relating to the majority of a society and population, sounds boring!
And to be considered "crazy" within a society is when ones mind/thoughts begin to ponder what is more than what they perceive within just their basic senses and awareness. Seems more so like a proficient way of thinking rather than going "crazy"
The word crazy is only shunned because you want to still be accepted by the people who love you, and your friends associates, if you have belief in your self, and self love. You don't give a shit what anyone has to say about you.
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Universaleyeni
Friend



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Yes that "normal" is pretty lame and missing out on a lot if not all.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Quote:
Penelope_Tree said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
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Penelope_Tree said: Have you ever experienced synchronicity? Genuinely curious.
Would it honestly change anything?
That is for you to decide.
This all reminds me of one of my absolute favorite episodes of Radiolab, which explores meaning, the space where science and synchronicity collide, and why it may be right to hold two opposing world views at once. You may listen here: http://www.radiolab.org/story/haunted/
Radiolab is great. I haven't listened to that one yet, but I find being able to integrate seemingly contradictory ideas, to hold them in superposition, is a lovely sort of mental yoga. Embrace the paradox.
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Synchronicity/Awakening [Re: DisoRDeR] 1
#23401364 - 07/01/16 02:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanatos we can't actually die. The body is inside imagination, it's also part of the environment, and is not You. You are Unborn.
Besides it's all a story and it will turn around soon.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
beforethedawn said: Thanatos we can't actually die. The body is inside imagination, it's also part of the environment, and is not You. You are Unborn.
Besides it's all a story and it will turn around soon.
Actually we can. It's called the heart stopping, brain ceasing to function, and the body decomposing. That's death as much as I know. After that you got me.
But yes, we do die. Anything else is more to assuage the death anxiety that plagues everyone.
And it's not a story where you can just rewrite it. It's real life. Overpopulation is going to be an issue facing us and will likely be our end without a plan. The prognosis for humans grows grimmer every day.
It would be interesting to see what comes after humans, but that's another discussion.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (07/01/16 05:51 PM)
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
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I believe I read from Jung something which stated that synchronicity in ones life, was a sign you're on the right path, any thoughts on this people?
I know when I first began down the path of awakening after a life changing experience in 2009, I started to experience them everywhere, still do.
-------------------- ©️
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Synchronicity/Awakening [Re: Thanatos10] 3
#23405359 - 07/02/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Actually we can. It's called the heart stopping, brain ceasing to function, and the body decomposing. That's death as much as I know. After that you got me.
But yes, we do die. Anything else is more to assuage the death anxiety that plagues everyone.
And it's not a story where you can just rewrite it. It's real life. Overpopulation is going to be an issue facing us and will likely be our end without a plan. The prognosis for humans grows grimmer every day.
It would be interesting to see what comes after humans, but that's another discussion.
It's like Icelander never left. All we need is for Thanatos to start talking about how great it would be to kill himself and it will be just like the old days.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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