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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Being curtious to others..
    #23396456 - 06/30/16 05:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

WHY do we live in a world where we must be reminded to do so???



--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #23396486 - 06/30/16 06:13 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Because we live in a world so full of insecure people that they see courteousness as a weakness, and rudeness somehow allows them to feel tough or maybe competent.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #23396511 - 06/30/16 06:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Like this?

Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength.
--Eric Hoffer

I know a guy to whom that applies perfectly.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflinePaulMaster
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23397114 - 06/30/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'll say its related to people's feelings of security.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: PaulMaster]
    #23399234 - 06/30/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I say it's because its much easier to be a dick to people then to be nice. Same with laws its easier to do wrong.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23400931 - 07/01/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Reminding people to not be rude isn't very effective, or there'd be signs on the road every few miles.

To be offended by anyone's lack of respect is created by our expectations.

Without the expectation that people be polite, one can not be offended.

Interesting Hoffer quote.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23402194 - 07/01/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
WHY do we live in a world where we must be reminded to do so???





Perhaps First we might need to answer: WHY do we live in a world ?

from that perspective the question seems to be simply a complaint.

We might all prefer the world to cater to us more than it does ...

as we already know meditation ...


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23402504 - 07/01/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

We WERE barbarians in the not to distant past :lol: It does suck that humans are such noobs.
Acceptance is key here I guess. But ya, there could be more respect, I feel ya there.


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Offlineblazejesus
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Hobozen]
    #23403080 - 07/02/16 04:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Being courteous to someone is sort of opening up to them. Lots of people want to stay closed off. Showing someone kindness is letting them in, which probably freaks some people out


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: blazejesus]
    #23405612 - 07/02/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Great point blaze.

Many of us simultaneously desire connection with others and at the same time fear it.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23407837 - 07/03/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Great point blaze.

Many of us simultaneously desire connection with others and at the same time fear it.




One can observe the process in small children at a playground to which their mother takes them. they venture forth for a few minutes, then return to mother for safety - but that feels too smothering/boring after a minute, then being away from mom, and among strange new kids feels too risky / exposed , and they go back to mother. Slowly more time is spent away from mother.

I imagine many of us have a similar conflict, between asserting identity and wanting individual attention, praise etc. and (to switch metaphors) wanting to melt into the the tribal dance, follow the beat of the drums and chants, and feel release from our personality, and enjoy unity.

The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships, where one may at first imagine intimacy to be heaven, until suddenly it changes and feels confining. For two people to understand these conflicting and changing needs and balance them may be tricky.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23407965 - 07/03/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:





One can observe the process in small children at a playground to which their mother takes them. they venture forth for a few minutes, then return to mother for safety

I imagine many of us have a similar conflict and wanting individual attention, praise etc. and (to switch metaphors) wanting to melt into the the tribal dance, follow the beat of the drums and chants, and feel release from our personality, and enjoy unity.

The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships.






--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/03/16 06:26 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23410028 - 07/04/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships, where one may at first imagine intimacy to be heaven, until suddenly it changes and feels confining. For two people to understand these conflicting and changing needs and balance them may be tricky.




The thread "My Existential Crisis" maybe an example of idealizing the initial romantic phase of relationship where intimacy is seen as heaven.

It would seem that conventional language views the self as a static entity, but we & our awareness merge with and separate from experiences constantly. So to get stuck in one polarity, would seem to be just that: being stuck.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23410177 - 07/04/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Great point blaze.

Many of us simultaneously desire connection with others and at the same time fear it.




One can observe the process in small children at a playground to which their mother takes them. they venture forth for a few minutes, then return to mother for safety - but that feels too smothering/boring after a minute, then being away from mom, and among strange new kids feels too risky / exposed , and they go back to mother. Slowly more time is spent away from mother.

I imagine many of us have a similar conflict, between asserting identity and wanting individual attention, praise etc. and (to switch metaphors) wanting to melt into the the tribal dance, follow the beat of the drums and chants, and feel release from our personality, and enjoy unity.

The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships, where one may at first imagine intimacy to be heaven, until suddenly it changes and feels confining. For two people to understand these conflicting and changing needs and balance them may be tricky.




That's definitely one of my issues with relationships, I can only tolerate somebody treating me as if I'm something very special for so long... Sure, there might be those moments of ecstasy during sex and particularly orgasm where you switch metaphors and experience 'la petit morte' as they say in french.  But that's just not good enough for me.  I need actual space to do my thing, pranayama, mantra, I like to play my djembe, my own little releases from my personality.  A lot of gay men don't really understand my need for this or why I am occasionally compelled to drop a few hundred micorgrams of LSD.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23410354 - 07/04/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

My Zen teacher of long ago
used very graphic and succinct language to make the point.

"There are no toilets in heaven."

So to be attached to Samadhi is also an error,

or perhaps to only finding Samadhi in tranquility...

We are perhaps more fluid than, than we usually realize.

I suppose by making stories about ourselves in our minds, we slow down
and corrupt/ossify our perception of reality, hobble ourselves, and objectify ourselves. Like that B. Dylan song ..."fooled into thinking I had something to protect..."

Psychologically speaking some of these patterns are probably habitualized by relationship with mother. It is a wise mother who is neither over (smothering-worried) or under protective (distant-cold).
In order to find balance a child must attempt to compensate for a mother's imbalance when forming an identity. Only much later do we begin to figure this shit out. 'My' personality is certainly scarred.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23410497 - 07/04/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Oh I keep hearing the concept Samasara is Nirvana, and to be in the body but not of it...  I can definitely be a very conditional person and not as malleable, flexible as I'd prefer.  Perhaps it's that reality is a constant state of flux, and that's why I find myself not meshing with it.  I'm sure a lot of the rigidness in my life is a result of the story I continually tell myself, hating where I live, money matters ,and buying owning a home in the neighborhood I want here in the city.  It's stressing me out, when it would be better to just surrender to the predicament and enjoy life as it is here and now, because everything is going to resolve itself eventually in something like T-140 days.

I had a single mother who was exhausted and ready to have a drink after work, I don't really have many great memories of spending quality time with her.  She'd also have a complete meltdown any time I had bad news to share with her, so I quickly learned to keep it all to myself.  On the other side I was a completely autonomous kid, free to run amuck the town.

But yah, I definitely don't want to relive any of my family dynamics in a relationship.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23411182 - 07/04/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Rudeness seems to be the cultural norm in Miami. People don't phone to cancel an appointment, they simply fail to show up. A woman opened her car door into the mirror of my brand new Mazda Miata in 1989, and, while my hands were still on the steering wheel having pulled into a parking spot, she bellowed out her window when I looked at her: "YOU DID THAT!" AS IF her obnoxious command was going to hypnotize me to believe it, or change reality. Miami has LOTS of low-class and n--class people who throw their garbage out car windows, on the sidewalks, and the neighbor across the street has been walking past a plastic milk container for a good week, but the POS won't deign to bend over, pick it up, and throw it in the recycle bin. In fact, they don't bother to recycle. Everything is put in the trash. Even an over-age Hispanic middle school kid (13 in the 6th grade) asked me "Do you LIKE this neighborhood?" Well, I like my house/yard/pool, and there is supposed to be a county park being built beyond my back yard out of a defunct golf course, but this week before dawn, some asshole dumped a mattress and debris there. Now I have the beginnings of a dump site to look at through my tropical plants.

I just came inside from the front where I waved to a woman who was walking by 30' in front of her husband and small child, whom he was carrying. She didn't respond at all. I said, "It's OK to wave," and she smiled slightly. Then I waved at the man. No response. "Happy 4th" I said. Half-smile response. They don't know English, or don't care about the 4th of July, or they're rude, or all the above. The house they entered is known for lots of traffic, the 20-something is partly paralyzed from a gun shot (he is criminally disposed), and there has been domestic violence there. One problem is immigrants who do NOT identify with being American, and whose attitude is to NOT permit themselves any real enculturation (like I am expected to speak Spanish and/or Creole), and worse, the attitude of 'I piss on YOUR country' while living here. So this is the nature of Miamian rude-culture where immigrants FAR outnumber natural born Americans and who are contemptuous toward America and its citizens. :shrug:

There are lesser forms of rudeness, such as being judged according to the type of car one drives, and treated either courteously or rudely. Physical appearance is a similar issue - how one is attired. These biases cut across ethnic differences as shallow, stupid people, sometimes with money like to pretend that the material quality of their cars or clothes have somehow imparted a higher human value to themselves. This is the effect of Ahriman, demon of greed that Rudolph Steiner wrote about. "Ahriman is the inspirer of materialistic science and commercialism, and permeates modern culture with deadening forces. -http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/ahriman.htm So beyond the cultural forces behind rude people are cosmic forces as well.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23411219 - 07/04/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
This is the effect of Ahriman




I am sorry for the attitudes you are exposed to. I doubt 'Ahriman' as an explanation, but am sorry.

Sometimes it seems poor unhappy humans are almost everywhere.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23411246 - 07/04/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

a guy driving an audi threw his empty milkshake at a garbage can while making a left turn in front of me - naturally it missed and went on the sidewalk.

but he really wanted it to land in the garbage can, so


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23411449 - 07/04/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not singling out and picking on the poor who are evidencing unhappiness, but the wealthy! You can't spit but hit luxury cars around here, and sometimes you observe the countenances and body language - I wait to see how the guy or gal comports him/herself stepping out of a Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Maserati, or Lamborghini. Prestige Imports in near my house, right next to Total Wines which I frequent about every 10 days, so I see a good many people in my area driving these cars. I'm not talking about those poseurs who rent these cars for a day or two http://www.dynastyluxuryrentals.com/english/rent/?v=7692 I'm talking about those people who are owners. They often have facial expressions like they just stepped in shit, and evidence condescension, superiority, and other arrogance-tinged characteristics. But on the other hand, despite the concentrated wealth, there is also a huge underclass of "have nots" who suffer from their own envy, or from pathological feelings of entitlement which can result in criminal acts. The wealthy of course, are sometimes guilty of white-collar crimes, and are no less criminals, just less violent types.

My immediate neighborhood of about 120 homes includes two people with PhDs (me included), some people in upper-level banking, teachers, a late accountant, some retired folk (me included), some people finding it difficult to maintain their homes, some just not giving a shit, and there are three houses that I know harbor criminals (talking with my postal carrier and UPS driver of many years who knows all kinds of fraud). Rudeness originates from all manner of cultural, subcultural, and psychological sources. Wealthy, middle class or underclass, there are both decent and indecent folk in all sets.

I named Ahriman, but tongue-in-cheek, or metaphorically as people ought to speak of demons and devils. Those who go on about their own unspiritual demonic oppression or possession are delusional as far as I am concerned, and they need to be coaxed to understand that their archaic medieval language should be shaped into more modern metaphors and models, primarily so that they learn to accept pharmacological and psychotherapeutic intervention instead of taking refuge in their madness. There is a strengthened zeitgeist which is all about crass materialism however. If people will rob, burglarize or even kill for money, there IS some evil afoot which can be symbolized as demonic. But human evil needs no metaphysical an infernal hierarchy, just a psychological one (such as Dr. Michael Stone's "Scale and Criminals" at the bottom of this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Evil


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23411673 - 07/04/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

"Sometimes it seems poor unhappy humans are almost everywhere. "

I meant 'poor' in the sense of sad/pathetic not economic.

anyway sounds like you're in a real hot spot of sociological  chaos/maelstrom...

...suppose it's interesting to observe, especially if one has an eye like R. Crumb the 'underground' comic strip artist, but also potentially quite painful if one feels involved...

must be an art just to navigate...


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OfflineKinko
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23411741 - 07/04/16 08:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

God maybe I am unlucky .. But noone seems to be rude to me . I live a boring , lonely life and working a shitty job .. Sometimes I wish people were rude to me just so I.can rock their world with violence if I can get away with it.    Now I dont go on and about starting trouble because I dont see the.point and.. The person could be armed or have friends nearby .....


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23411826 - 07/04/16 08:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
"Sometimes it seems poor unhappy humans are almost everywhere. "

I meant 'poor' in the sense of sad/pathetic not economic.

anyway sounds like you're in a real hot spot of sociological  chaos/maelstrom...

...suppose it's interesting to observe, especially if one has an eye like R. Crumb the 'underground' comic strip artist, but also potentially quite painful if one feels involved...

must be an art just to navigate...





My bad, weren't sure if you were being literal (or, sarcastic  :blush:). I wish I could take it in more like R. Crumb, but I suppose it's always been particularly difficult to relate to people under the best of circumstances (like in college), so it has been much more difficult to connect with people in this place, with my personality, most of my life, half of which has been in Miami. :shrug: Part of it is my attempts in life to thwart ordinary social conventions, i.e., not becoming a parent, therefore not interacting with other parents, then grandparents, not belonging to a faith community which is a source of social life, and having had a very alienated family (now all the elders are dead, and 7 of my 10 remaining cousins not wanting anything to do with one another. My BFF from toddlerhood is the last of my original friends from childhood (and the first one in this life). The rest have either rejected me, or me them. As Frank Zappa used to sing: "You'll be absolutely free only if you want to be..." but sometimes I experiences the freedom and detachment as rather unpleasant existential alienation. Some times I'm not sure if it's place so much as time that I am alienated from. I'm a 1970s guy living in the teens of the 21st century and in a particularly materialistic culture. It seems like I'm living in a 1970s time-bubble while moving through the 21st century, looking out with a kind of subtle horror at the culture, unable or unwilling to leave the bubble, yet unable to bring anyone else into the bubble. When people do enter into our microcosm, it often feels like we're curiosities for much younger acquaintances and crazies for square contemporaries. :shrug: It is what it is.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 2
    #23412094 - 07/04/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I just came inside from the front where I waved to a woman who was walking by 30' in front of her husband and small child, whom he was carrying. She didn't respond at all. I said, "It's OK to wave," and she smiled slightly. Then I waved at the man. No response. "Happy 4th" I said. Half-smile response. They don't know English, or don't care about the 4th of July, or they're rude, or all the above. The house they entered is known for lots of traffic, the 20-something is partly paralyzed from a gun shot (he is criminally disposed), and there has been domestic violence there. One problem is immigrants who do NOT identify with being American, and whose attitude is to NOT permit themselves any real enculturation (like I am expected to speak Spanish and/or Creole), and worse, the attitude of 'I piss on YOUR country' while living here. So this is the nature of Miamian rude-culture where immigrants FAR outnumber natural born Americans and who are contemptuous toward America and its citizens. :shrug:





I am from a small town where we wave to each other in passing while we are driving - much less not separated by a car. That's what fails when ridiculously high levels of immigration occur - low to zero cultural assimilation. If someone is in a place because they want what that place has, then WHY is their psychological reaction one of disdain for its residents? THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MADE IT THE WAY IT IS. I'm not here to hijack the thread and go off on an immigration tangent, so I'll just let that dog lie.

When I moved out to LA last year, I was shocked how dirty it was and how suspicious/hard people were (I did outside B2B cold calling). The simple fact that there was so much trash on the side of the street showed which neighborhoods gave a damn about themselves and which didn't. I understand the places that some people have come from may make them more biased towards being suspicious, but seriously, if those people outweigh the community-driven people in an area, then how is that desirable?

I have considered relocating again since I've moved back home (turns out - I really do love the desert), but after the pride I felt in my city tonight and the things you mention, MtG, it makes me feel like I should stay put and play a part in creating that community that so many places seem to lack. I wish I could help people everywhere develop stronger communities.


--------------------
full blown human


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23412426 - 07/05/16 01:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Looking around my neighborhood 07/04, I was the only person I saw who put up American flags - a traditional one and one with the 50 stars arranged in a peace sign. I am a Liberal Democrat, and not a military veteran, but I feel like an American on July 4th more than any other day. I thank God for the freedoms I've always enjoyed compared to most of the globe. When I was in Nigeria years ago on July 4th I sought out Americans at the embassy (they were all at the local Sheraton getting drunk), so there's no denying that I am an American on an existential level. My wife was a British subject who now has American citizenship, and she is proud to be an American also.

I don't care where you came from but if you're here and you're disparaging my country while taking advantage of every aspect of the system, yet you trash the very ground, but hang flags of your former country of residence on your rear-view mirror, or Haitian flags outside your car on 'Haitian Flag Day' then fuck you! (BTW, the Haitian flag salute I saw when I worked in middle school is the same as the Nazi salute). I am NOT for acquiescing to all the bullshit cultural acquiescences that further polarizes the people in this penile peninsula of the USA called Florida. It's florid alright, florid with symptoms. :sad: Our government might be bad by some standards of corruption, but it still allows me freedoms that most other countries do not. Nobody is breaking down our doors for talking about mushroom-growing, and Grateful Deed concerts in the past drove the point of American freedom all the way from my soul to my spirit. I'm about ready to spend money for a commercial flag pole in order to fly Old Glory (the peace sign version) and maybe a Steal Your Face red, white, and blue "freak flag" high. :yesnod:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23412923 - 07/05/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
I wish I could help people everywhere develop stronger communities.



Stunning words P_T. Straight after my own heart. Community has been of the utmost importance in my life for as long as I can remember; and yet for some reason, I've been dragged into a world which seems the very antithesis of it.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23413952 - 07/05/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
WHY do we live in a world where we must be reminded to do so???






That's your local cultural reality tunnel though, I find people in Portland to be.... as in the avatar of memories "polite as fuck" :wink:  You'd just have to see it to believe it.  My only wish was that rich Californians weren't buying up our properties to rent as their nest egg.  Would be a better city if the people who actually lived here owned.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #23418243 - 07/06/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

This perspective has helped me be less reactive...

  Rude people are suffering.

  Mean people are suffering.

  Selfish people are suffering.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23418279 - 07/06/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
This perspective has helped me be less reactive...

  Rude people are suffering.

  Mean people are suffering.

  Selfish people are suffering.




There's a lot of wisdom in this. The problem is that when we meet rude people, or mean people, or selfish people - or people who are none of those things but who we misinterpret as them - we become angry. The first thing that happens when we get angry is that we stop caring about other people's suffering.

So it takes a lot of calmness to live the perspective you described.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: viktor]
    #23418281 - 07/06/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
So it takes a lot of calmness to live the perspective you described.



I see it in the reverse; the perspective he described creates a lot of calmness in life.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: viktor]
    #23418296 - 07/06/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, anger is usually our knee jerk irrational reaction.

Anger is irrational because it's based on the belief reality "should" be different.

When I'm angry or hate certain people (and I do), I don't see them as human.

Anger is always an opportunity to learn something about ourselves and grow.

I've really struggled with my anger. Best book on anger I've ever read (I've read a few) =

Love Your Enemies: How to Break the Anger Habit & Be a Whole Lot Happier

By Sharon Salzberg


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23418320 - 07/06/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've really struggled with my anger.



Oh man, you and me both. It really used to be such a drug for me. I used to get off on the sheer power I felt from being fully immersed in it. Therapy has helped me to understand why this was the case, and thankfully, I've since been able to learn to experience my power in more productive ways.

Being aware of how damaged we really all are (probably the most salient point I learned in my early contact with Buddhist teachings) really helped my to change my direction as described above.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23418321 - 07/06/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Yes, anger is usually our knee jerk irrational reaction.

Anger is irrational because it's based on the belief reality "should" be different.





Yeah, the very first thing that anger does when it enters the mind is to convince us that it is a legitimate and correct emotion. Or perhaps even THE legitimate and correct emotion, because doubt seems to get pushed aside.

Whenever I see an adult get angry I see a toddler throwing a tantrum. It's pathetic really.

I learned to do this in Thailand, where they are all Buddhist. In Thailand anger does not work. People don't do what you want if you get angry - they treat you like you are a savage, a pathetic animal.

It's a very different perspective to the West. In the West if you get angry and punish someone then you are the big man and people look up to you.

You're right that it's based on the belief that reality should be different. Perhaps that's all it is.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23418763 - 07/06/16 10:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
WHY do we live in a world where we must be reminded to do so???






Is that sign in London? PM me where it is and I'll deface it, then you can delete this post.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23423101 - 07/08/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It was somewhere along the Lee Valley Canal. I did a 12 hour walking meditation along it, from Broxbourne -> Tottenham.

I also saw this cheesy as fuck advert on the side of a bus, which, like the sign above, reduced me to albsolute hysterics (the camera shake was cause I was still trying to quell my laughter):



You're just one man BD. If we can gather an army, then I'll join you in defacing every stupid fucking sign in a 20 mile radius of the square mile. There's fucking millions of them.

At least the one in the OP wasn't trying to sell me something.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23428032 - 07/09/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's true though, women love English accents in the US. 

People in Portland are normally super polite out of courtesy.  But there's a huge undercurrent of passive aggressiveness and contempt that can get ugly.  IDK how many people I've talked to in Portland that act polite but are actually super negative and constantly just put everything you do or say through their negativity filter.  But it only comes out as even more passive aggressiveness disguised as courtesy.  Portland is certainly not anywhere near the nicest city.  And courtesy is overrated when it smacks of patronization, resentment, and contempt.  Face it, it's just a bunch of snooty white people.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23428055 - 07/09/16 11:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It's not the nicest city, smaller cities like Asheville, NC have had nicer people imho, but you're waxing judgmental, because let's face it, PDX has 2.2 million people and you haven't even began to have met but the smallest fraction of them and are drawing big conclusions.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23428066 - 07/09/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

So national polls don't mean anything since they didn't talk to every single American?


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23428133 - 07/10/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

How is that logical?  A national poll removes you as the sole observer, at best you get to cast a vote and see what the majority of people think.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23428203 - 07/10/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

'tis true, I am but one man.  One white man.  Which happens to be OTTOMH 25% of all people living in Portland.  According to the internet lists Portland is of middling nicety compared to the rest of the country. :shrug: 

But having recently moved back here, the most glaring thing I've noticed is that Portland is the whitest city in the US.  Everywhere I go it's wall to wall white people just like me.  72% or thereabouts.  I was at Bastille day festival in downtown SW today and I couldn't find a single hispanic in a crowd of 50-80.  All of this incubating in one race creates what seems like a lot of racism for a city with a reputation for being so open minded and liberal.

After moving away from Portland area, I lived for a long time in various other locations that were far, far more diverse.  Where whites are the minority.  Even less than 1% in one place I lived for over a year.  It's truly a shocker coming back and seeing only white people everywhere and seeing other cultures virtually wiped from public display. 

Then I noticed the extremely racist things people just casually say all the time here.  I occasionally find myself looking around to make sure no one was around that would take offense to something racist someone says.  And invariably there isn't!  Or if there is, they wouldn't dare object.  They are probably used to it.  White people don't even get it here.  They would probably all rate themselves as very low on the racism scale.  But I can't really blame them too much.  It all just stems from inexperience, resistance to change, fear of the unknown, and just not knowing any better. 

Come to think of it, it's about as white here as in good ole London.  Weird.  I've never been there.  I've only watched Top Gear, and Dr. Who.  And from those shows I can say that multicultural and LGBTQXYZ opinions come off about how they did on older American television programs from the 90's.  They would joke about gays in ways that I would expect to hear from a 50-70 year old in Portland.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23429246 - 07/10/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I said this in the mod forum about 4 days ago, it's not confidential information so I see no harm in sharing it "As far as homogenous goes, it's odd, because virtually everyone I know in Portland is a transplant from somewhere else.  I know very few natives to this city, but in terms of just even ethnic diversity, where the fuck are all the black people in Portland? I can't lie, it's mighty whitey around here."
"
We're in total agreement there, but I obviously run with a different crowd. because everyone I associate with would take great offense to racist or homophobic comments.  Whenever a black man is shot by a police officer or there is a gay bashing in this city, it sends it into a total fucking uproar.  We've literally chased out fundamentalist, christians from having their hate mongering protests by making a total mockery party of it.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23429343 - 07/10/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It is a trick. the more we are told that all lives matter, destroy racism/sexism, be nice to people, the less we care to do so, and when we do it because we are told to, we mindlessly do it in such a fashiom that instigates pride in other people and ourself, as if we are good people because we are nice, but it ultimately is food for our ego. It is not important to be nice to.people, as our misery is self inflicted, and if we are to be inconsiderate of others it is because we want others to feel the same pain that we feel. We are eluded into a reality in which we believe there is a right or a wrong choice, when every choice is the right choice, and everyone truly gets exactly whay they deserve based on their own choices, and not by fate, as fate is a way of victimizing ourselves in order to place the blame anywherr besides ourself. we can not help others, as hurting and helping people is often the same thing. even when offering our advice it is to fuel our ego into believing that one may develop our opinions and join our side and ultimately increase our potential to rule over those who are in opposition of us, not unlike street gangs. All in all, deep down we hate, or fear, those who we choose to see as different than ourselves, and we, by nature, kill or run from the things we fear and envy the people that we see as most similar to us.


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23429686 - 07/10/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
I said this in the mod forum about 4 days ago, it's not confidential information so I see no harm in sharing it "As far as homogenous goes, it's odd, because virtually everyone I know in Portland is a transplant from somewhere else.  I know very few natives to this city, but in terms of just even ethnic diversity, where the fuck are all the black people in Portland? I can't lie, it's mighty whitey around here."
"
We're in total agreement there, but I obviously run with a different crowd. because everyone I associate with would take great offense to racist or homophobic comments.  Whenever a black man is shot by a police officer or there is a gay bashing in this city, it sends it into a total fucking uproar.  We've literally chased out fundamentalist, christians from having their hate mongering protests by making a total mockery party of it.




Come to think of it, excluding anyone not from the suburbs and not Portland proper, I know only a few people I am certain are born and raised Portlanders.  I was born at OHSU, but spent most of my PNW life in the SW area.  More racist than SE NE and NW Portland.  idk why I always end up in the redneck sides of Portland.  I'm so not like that.  I guess I'm overblowing how often people say racist things around me.  It's just seems more coming from living elsewhere.  But the racism I most often notice is subliminal.  It's white people acting like the person of another race in the room is not there.  Not because they are purposely trying to snub them, but because they just aren't very good socially, and can't relate directly with how they look.  Like how their faces are different.  They just subliminally don't want to look at a different face because it's uncomfortable.  That sort of thing.  It's the exact same thing that happens with ugly and fat people.  It's like Portlanders treat people of other races like fat or ugly people.  Not so bad that you can put your finger on it.  But enough that it's a noticeable difference from an outside observer.  That's why I say I can't really blame them.  I used to be like that too until I lived in other places besides Portland.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23429759 - 07/10/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What I find interesting is that youngsters in the more hipster areas of Portland feel like they have to have tattoos to get laid, which I think is totally ridiculous.  Some day I may just tattoo the soles of my feet with some intricate patterns so that I never overtly signal to others I'm one of them.  I love tattoos too, I just don't like what motivates people to get them here.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23429819 - 07/10/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
What I find interesting is that youngsters in the more hipster areas of Portland feel like they have to have tattoos to get laid, which I think is totally ridiculous.  Some day I may just tattoo the soles of my feet with some intricate patterns so that I never overtly signal to others I'm one of them.  I love tattoos too, I just don't like what motivates people to get them here.




It's worse than I thought.  What motivates people to conform to the herd mentality, is in fact the herd mentality.

Portland is no exception.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23429864 - 07/10/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Heh, I remember traveling from Asheville, NC to Bonnaroo in TN and as a bored car game we played Church Vs. School, tallying however many we spotted....  Church won 10 fold.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #23429872 - 07/10/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Heh, I remember traveling from Asheville, NC to Bonnaroo in TN and as a bored car game we played Church Vs. School, tallying however many we spotted....  Church won 10 fold.




We used to count Ford Mustangs vs. VW bugs man there were a lot of both!


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: viktor]
    #23431009 - 07/11/16 01:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:

Whenever I see an adult get angry I see a toddler throwing a tantrum.





That's a great practice. It really is no different!


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