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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Being curtious to others..
#23396456 - 06/30/16 05:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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WHY do we live in a world where we must be reminded to do so???
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Because we live in a world so full of insecure people that they see courteousness as a weakness, and rudeness somehow allows them to feel tough or maybe competent.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#23396511 - 06/30/16 06:27 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like this?
Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength. --Eric Hoffer
I know a guy to whom that applies perfectly.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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PaulMaster
Stranger
Registered: 05/25/16
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I'll say its related to people's feelings of security.
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: PaulMaster]
#23399234 - 06/30/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I say it's because its much easier to be a dick to people then to be nice. Same with laws its easier to do wrong.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
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Loc: USA
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Reminding people to not be rude isn't very effective, or there'd be signs on the road every few miles.
To be offended by anyone's lack of respect is created by our expectations.
Without the expectation that people be polite, one can not be offended.
Interesting Hoffer quote.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: WHY do we live in a world where we must be reminded to do so???
Perhaps First we might need to answer: WHY do we live in a world ?
from that perspective the question seems to be simply a complaint.
We might all prefer the world to cater to us more than it does ...
as we already know meditation ...
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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We WERE barbarians in the not to distant past It does suck that humans are such noobs. Acceptance is key here I guess. But ya, there could be more respect, I feel ya there.
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blazejesus
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: Hobozen]
#23403080 - 07/02/16 04:48 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Being courteous to someone is sort of opening up to them. Lots of people want to stay closed off. Showing someone kindness is letting them in, which probably freaks some people out
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: blazejesus]
#23405612 - 07/02/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Great point blaze.
Many of us simultaneously desire connection with others and at the same time fear it.
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#23407837 - 07/03/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Great point blaze.
Many of us simultaneously desire connection with others and at the same time fear it.
One can observe the process in small children at a playground to which their mother takes them. they venture forth for a few minutes, then return to mother for safety - but that feels too smothering/boring after a minute, then being away from mom, and among strange new kids feels too risky / exposed , and they go back to mother. Slowly more time is spent away from mother.
I imagine many of us have a similar conflict, between asserting identity and wanting individual attention, praise etc. and (to switch metaphors) wanting to melt into the the tribal dance, follow the beat of the drums and chants, and feel release from our personality, and enjoy unity.
The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships, where one may at first imagine intimacy to be heaven, until suddenly it changes and feels confining. For two people to understand these conflicting and changing needs and balance them may be tricky.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
#23407965 - 07/03/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
One can observe the process in small children at a playground to which their mother takes them. they venture forth for a few minutes, then return to mother for safety
I imagine many of us have a similar conflict and wanting individual attention, praise etc. and (to switch metaphors) wanting to melt into the the tribal dance, follow the beat of the drums and chants, and feel release from our personality, and enjoy unity.
The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (07/03/16 06:26 PM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
#23410028 - 07/04/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships, where one may at first imagine intimacy to be heaven, until suddenly it changes and feels confining. For two people to understand these conflicting and changing needs and balance them may be tricky.
The thread "My Existential Crisis" maybe an example of idealizing the initial romantic phase of relationship where intimacy is seen as heaven.
It would seem that conventional language views the self as a static entity, but we & our awareness merge with and separate from experiences constantly. So to get stuck in one polarity, would seem to be just that: being stuck.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
#23410177 - 07/04/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Great point blaze.
Many of us simultaneously desire connection with others and at the same time fear it.
One can observe the process in small children at a playground to which their mother takes them. they venture forth for a few minutes, then return to mother for safety - but that feels too smothering/boring after a minute, then being away from mom, and among strange new kids feels too risky / exposed , and they go back to mother. Slowly more time is spent away from mother.
I imagine many of us have a similar conflict, between asserting identity and wanting individual attention, praise etc. and (to switch metaphors) wanting to melt into the the tribal dance, follow the beat of the drums and chants, and feel release from our personality, and enjoy unity.
The same thing seems to happen sometimes in romantic relationships, where one may at first imagine intimacy to be heaven, until suddenly it changes and feels confining. For two people to understand these conflicting and changing needs and balance them may be tricky.
That's definitely one of my issues with relationships, I can only tolerate somebody treating me as if I'm something very special for so long... Sure, there might be those moments of ecstasy during sex and particularly orgasm where you switch metaphors and experience 'la petit morte' as they say in french. But that's just not good enough for me. I need actual space to do my thing, pranayama, mantra, I like to play my djembe, my own little releases from my personality. A lot of gay men don't really understand my need for this or why I am occasionally compelled to drop a few hundred micorgrams of LSD.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: CosmicJoke]
#23410354 - 07/04/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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My Zen teacher of long ago used very graphic and succinct language to make the point.
"There are no toilets in heaven."
So to be attached to Samadhi is also an error,
or perhaps to only finding Samadhi in tranquility...
We are perhaps more fluid than, than we usually realize.
I suppose by making stories about ourselves in our minds, we slow down and corrupt/ossify our perception of reality, hobble ourselves, and objectify ourselves. Like that B. Dylan song ..."fooled into thinking I had something to protect..."
Psychologically speaking some of these patterns are probably habitualized by relationship with mother. It is a wise mother who is neither over (smothering-worried) or under protective (distant-cold). In order to find balance a child must attempt to compensate for a mother's imbalance when forming an identity. Only much later do we begin to figure this shit out. 'My' personality is certainly scarred.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
#23410497 - 07/04/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh I keep hearing the concept Samasara is Nirvana, and to be in the body but not of it... I can definitely be a very conditional person and not as malleable, flexible as I'd prefer. Perhaps it's that reality is a constant state of flux, and that's why I find myself not meshing with it. I'm sure a lot of the rigidness in my life is a result of the story I continually tell myself, hating where I live, money matters ,and buying owning a home in the neighborhood I want here in the city. It's stressing me out, when it would be better to just surrender to the predicament and enjoy life as it is here and now, because everything is going to resolve itself eventually in something like T-140 days.
I had a single mother who was exhausted and ready to have a drink after work, I don't really have many great memories of spending quality time with her. She'd also have a complete meltdown any time I had bad news to share with her, so I quickly learned to keep it all to myself. On the other side I was a completely autonomous kid, free to run amuck the town.
But yah, I definitely don't want to relive any of my family dynamics in a relationship.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Rudeness seems to be the cultural norm in Miami. People don't phone to cancel an appointment, they simply fail to show up. A woman opened her car door into the mirror of my brand new Mazda Miata in 1989, and, while my hands were still on the steering wheel having pulled into a parking spot, she bellowed out her window when I looked at her: "YOU DID THAT!" AS IF her obnoxious command was going to hypnotize me to believe it, or change reality. Miami has LOTS of low-class and n--class people who throw their garbage out car windows, on the sidewalks, and the neighbor across the street has been walking past a plastic milk container for a good week, but the POS won't deign to bend over, pick it up, and throw it in the recycle bin. In fact, they don't bother to recycle. Everything is put in the trash. Even an over-age Hispanic middle school kid (13 in the 6th grade) asked me "Do you LIKE this neighborhood?" Well, I like my house/yard/pool, and there is supposed to be a county park being built beyond my back yard out of a defunct golf course, but this week before dawn, some asshole dumped a mattress and debris there. Now I have the beginnings of a dump site to look at through my tropical plants.
I just came inside from the front where I waved to a woman who was walking by 30' in front of her husband and small child, whom he was carrying. She didn't respond at all. I said, "It's OK to wave," and she smiled slightly. Then I waved at the man. No response. "Happy 4th" I said. Half-smile response. They don't know English, or don't care about the 4th of July, or they're rude, or all the above. The house they entered is known for lots of traffic, the 20-something is partly paralyzed from a gun shot (he is criminally disposed), and there has been domestic violence there. One problem is immigrants who do NOT identify with being American, and whose attitude is to NOT permit themselves any real enculturation (like I am expected to speak Spanish and/or Creole), and worse, the attitude of 'I piss on YOUR country' while living here. So this is the nature of Miamian rude-culture where immigrants FAR outnumber natural born Americans and who are contemptuous toward America and its citizens. 
There are lesser forms of rudeness, such as being judged according to the type of car one drives, and treated either courteously or rudely. Physical appearance is a similar issue - how one is attired. These biases cut across ethnic differences as shallow, stupid people, sometimes with money like to pretend that the material quality of their cars or clothes have somehow imparted a higher human value to themselves. This is the effect of Ahriman, demon of greed that Rudolph Steiner wrote about. "Ahriman is the inspirer of materialistic science and commercialism, and permeates modern culture with deadening forces. -http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/ahriman.htm So beyond the cultural forces behind rude people are cosmic forces as well.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: This is the effect of Ahriman
I am sorry for the attitudes you are exposed to. I doubt 'Ahriman' as an explanation, but am sorry.
Sometimes it seems poor unhappy humans are almost everywhere.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
#23411246 - 07/04/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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a guy driving an audi threw his empty milkshake at a garbage can while making a left turn in front of me - naturally it missed and went on the sidewalk.
but he really wanted it to land in the garbage can, so
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Being curtious to others.. [Re: laughingdog]
#23411449 - 07/04/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not singling out and picking on the poor who are evidencing unhappiness, but the wealthy! You can't spit but hit luxury cars around here, and sometimes you observe the countenances and body language - I wait to see how the guy or gal comports him/herself stepping out of a Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Maserati, or Lamborghini. Prestige Imports in near my house, right next to Total Wines which I frequent about every 10 days, so I see a good many people in my area driving these cars. I'm not talking about those poseurs who rent these cars for a day or two http://www.dynastyluxuryrentals.com/english/rent/?v=7692 I'm talking about those people who are owners. They often have facial expressions like they just stepped in shit, and evidence condescension, superiority, and other arrogance-tinged characteristics. But on the other hand, despite the concentrated wealth, there is also a huge underclass of "have nots" who suffer from their own envy, or from pathological feelings of entitlement which can result in criminal acts. The wealthy of course, are sometimes guilty of white-collar crimes, and are no less criminals, just less violent types.
My immediate neighborhood of about 120 homes includes two people with PhDs (me included), some people in upper-level banking, teachers, a late accountant, some retired folk (me included), some people finding it difficult to maintain their homes, some just not giving a shit, and there are three houses that I know harbor criminals (talking with my postal carrier and UPS driver of many years who knows all kinds of fraud). Rudeness originates from all manner of cultural, subcultural, and psychological sources. Wealthy, middle class or underclass, there are both decent and indecent folk in all sets.
I named Ahriman, but tongue-in-cheek, or metaphorically as people ought to speak of demons and devils. Those who go on about their own unspiritual demonic oppression or possession are delusional as far as I am concerned, and they need to be coaxed to understand that their archaic medieval language should be shaped into more modern metaphors and models, primarily so that they learn to accept pharmacological and psychotherapeutic intervention instead of taking refuge in their madness. There is a strengthened zeitgeist which is all about crass materialism however. If people will rob, burglarize or even kill for money, there IS some evil afoot which can be symbolized as demonic. But human evil needs no metaphysical an infernal hierarchy, just a psychological one (such as Dr. Michael Stone's "Scale and Criminals" at the bottom of this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Evil
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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