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InvisibleZippoZM
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Polarities of different ethno-chemicals
    #2339517 - 02/16/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would like to start a list of polar and non polar substances that can be extracted from plant matter, also any other chemically relevant information.

just post what you know, and ill edit this post to include all the info, maybe we can get somthing FAQ worthy.

Pisloc(yb)in
Polarity: polar


THC (and other canabinoids)
Polarity: non-polar

Salvianorin
Polarity: Non-polar?

Muscarone
Polarity: ?

LSA
Polarity: polar

Mescaline
Polarity: Polar


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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


Edited by zippoz (02/16/04 02:03 AM)


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2339560 - 02/16/04 02:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

mescaline is polar.


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Invisiblezeta
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: Infrared]
    #2340004 - 02/16/04 05:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is meaningless...
if an alkaloid is in its salt form then it is polar, if it is in its freebase form then it's non-polar


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: zeta]
    #2340351 - 02/16/04 09:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

>>if an alkaloid is in its salt form then it is polar, if it is in its freebase form then it's non-polar

This is not necessarily so. If a molecule is in a freebase form that doesn't make it non-polar.

Polarity is determined by the electron withdrawing (e.g. elecetro negative) sibstituents and their placement on the molecule. In that their placements become vectors quantities, and the vector quantities are added up to a dipole-moment.

Turning non-polar molecules into salts is a way to make them "polar" for the time that they're salts, in that they will sometimes dissolve in water or polar molecules.

But on the other hand, i'm not entirely sure how much this helps some people because many people don't get down far enough to know or care wha tmolecules are polar or none polar, because when you're using solvents to extract plant matter you get a lot of things that wouldn't normally go into solution from the plant because they're bound by certain forces to molecules that readily go into solution and thus they're pulled in.


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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2340357 - 02/16/04 09:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Salvinorin i'd venture to say is slightly polar. If you've ever seen those molecular models in which they represent them as huge bound balls with color variations on them to give the viewer and idea of polarity i'd say it has some areas of slight and stron gpolarity due to the extensive and odd placement of carbonyl groups on it.


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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: neuro]
    #2340361 - 02/16/04 09:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

THC and cannibanoids are also very slightly polar (again due to some electron withdrawing groups iwthing the molecule) but their solubilities are very poor in things like water or slightly polar solvents, you can get THC into an alcohol solvent because it comes out into it with other polar molecules like i mentioned before.

Perhaps we should look up some extensive information about solubilities, i'd find that tons more helpful than just a listing of polarities when/if i were doing extractions for such compounds.


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: neuro]
    #2340378 - 02/16/04 10:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

sounds like something that would make a nice reference thread...


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2340953 - 02/16/04 02:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"This is meaningless...
if an alkaloid is in its salt form then it is polar, if it is in its freebase form then it's non-polar "

true enough, but where can such a list of comprehensive information be found?


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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2341075 - 02/16/04 02:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

merck index


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2342699 - 02/16/04 08:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


"This is meaningless...
if an alkaloid is in its salt form then it is polar, if it is in its freebase form then it's non-polar "

true enough, but where can such a list of comprehensive information be found?





no that is not true, see my above post.

if you know enough about chemistry you can look at molecules and get a rough idea of polarity by the substituents and their placements on the molecules.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: neuro]
    #2344123 - 02/17/04 01:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

whoops i pasted the wrong quote above, i ment to ask where can such a list of extensive soluability information be found


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2345467 - 02/17/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

zippoz: if you look up some chemicals on www.chemfinder.com they'll tell you about their solubilities, but usually only in water if that's even listed. Otherwise splurge some money and get a Merck Index.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2345886 - 02/17/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

merk index here i come, what chemicals are listed?
would any of the newer RC chemicals, or common psychoactive subtances be listed?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Polarities of different ethno-chemicals [Re: ZippoZ]
    #2347059 - 02/17/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

it is completely comprehensive. They list everything known to man pretty much.


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