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Chemical Addiction



Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 2,020
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Last year I had my one seed fall off, it was pretty shitty, i'm hoping these two turn red soon
 BTW the two cutting I took with clonex finally died, they never put out roots, I checked before tossing.
-------------------- Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything. —Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea
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mrmazdarx9
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Registered: 05/15/16
Posts: 9,796
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Ah man good luck and that sucks about the clone i litterally bought some clonex after reading your post lol ill still have a go and will be usefull for my other plants.
-------------------- COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge COCA GROWERS UNITE
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Chemical Addiction



Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 2,020
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clonex is great for cannabis, that's why I tried it, already had some on hand
-------------------- Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything. —Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,590
Loc: Mexico
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Quote:
Chemical Addiction said: Last year I had my one seed fall off, it was pretty shitty, i'm hoping these two turn red soon
 BTW the two cutting I took with clonex finally died, they never put out roots, I checked before tossing.
Those look,great bro. Good karma for you.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode

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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 9 months, 5 days
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Can't wait for my seedlings to sort of outgrow this fragile phase... conditions are seemingly well under control (although I hope my caretaker can follow the instructions to care for some of my more sensitive plants species), but still.. the growth is not very fast although glad to hear mine are keeping up with woof's which are about the same age i think..
pretty exciting though, you might say I'm really rooting for these boys a bit extra compared to some other plants just like I really need my baobab to do well 
those pics make my mouth water and not even cause i wanna eat em! ^ Nice colors and i love that sensual rounded shape of novo leaves..

The middle one has crumpled leaves from some trauma in the seed-stage I believe, the next set had no such problem...
Hopefully H2O2 also keeps those soil pests away, seems like a good bet that it does..
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guacamolerabbit
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Registered: 01/05/17
Posts: 38
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24489696 - 07/17/17 03:35 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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So, these are my newest friends...:-D no seed cover :/

They already have sprouted and the sprouts are hiding inside the dirt, the dirt camme together with them and it was kinda of dry for the duration, so I put a little bit of tap water, which has some chlorine on it, so they wouldn't dry, hopefully they won't die, now I have distiled water, so I'm good, do you guys think they will die because they got like half percentage of the dirt of tap water to make the dirt wet? the plastic box already had humidity marks on the lid and sides, so hopefully they survived by breeding. lol sorry for being a fool again, acting weird, but I just want to make sure they don't die. They are probably the best thing I ever had in my life.
I got some soil on ready to plant them of ph 4.5-5.5, any tips are welcome.
Edited by guacamolerabbit (07/17/17 08:14 PM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 9 months, 5 days
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I love how people act like they are expecting or having actual children (myself included), can't really explain that properly cause I don't like coke even if it were doable to make your own from a few plants.. but they are exotic and it's a loaded topic i guess..
Don't know how big the difference is, but often sphagnum moss is used to sprout them instead of soil. Anyway if yours have sprouted you should plant them properly in that soil once the sprout's root has reached like half an inch. The watering may be one of the more delicate things about this plant (coca may be more sensitive than novo in various respects, reportedly, though not sure if it is already that different in the germination / seedling stage).
By no seed covers how many layers do you mean are missing?.. I see no berry flesh of course but is the outer shell of the seed itself also missing? Might mean it's more permeable and thus even more prone to rot!
I think your soil would be too wet if it looks like that picture after you have actually planted a germinated seed. Once the plant itself is exposed it can rot much more easily. Especially if you have contaminated soil.
How much chlorine is in there really depends on where you live, there is none at all in 80% of tap water in my country. The soil should take the heat from quite a bit of that though, and if hydrogen peroxide is also no problem and it was just a little bit it may very well work out but don't know.
Distilled water is way better, but in time maybe re-check if the soil very slowly loses some acidity - best is to water with water that is equally acidic.
Even better is apparently water that is alive, like pond water or rainwater in a barrel that is not kept clean. Healthy microorganisms. I underestimated that for quite a while, but a healthy balance of microorganisms in the soil is pretty important.
If you grow yours outside that shouldn't be a problem as it all becomes natural anyway..
Personally I don't have very good soil (well I do have some compost from someone I know now), but I pasteurized the soil mix I used to kill bad microorganisms but perhaps leave some good ones alive, and add more microorganisms through the rainwater I use.
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guacamolerabbit
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Registered: 01/05/17
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24491210 - 07/18/17 08:43 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I asked for sphagnum moss, but they came in dirt.
No layers at all, just the seed husk unfortunately again, the outer shell, I can't know, as I've never seen examples to compare.
I already planted the seedlings, they are probably 1/2 an inch by now, I'm adding only a few drops of water (little quantities) directly on the seed husk where I planted the seed, should I add more? like, water thoroughly? I read about keeping them wet and avoid damping because seedlings are sensitive and the soil layer is only like 1 inch thick, right now I only have a little plastic fast food box to put them in, still didn't receive my seedling tray and my pots...I guess this will have to do for a little bit.
The soil is an orchid mix, it has coco fiber, pine bark, peat moss, some little orange balls (I guess they are slow release fertilizers), some branch shells, some decomposed manure, but I can't know which type of manure...It had a controled fertilization up until 9 months. PH 4.5-5.5, like I said before. It's got like 100/1 of soil compared to seedlings...I think I should water it more thoroughly, because it seems to drain well (which will help prevent the previous soil rot problems) and that the water might not be enough, I give them some air from a fan from time to time, for like 2 or 3 minutes. Although, this is just the first day.
I only watered with the tap water once, the first watering, now, I watered 2 times with the distilled water so no more chlorine or cal. the chlorine salts seem visible as byproducts of the water on the dirt. Or maybe I'm just speculating. *edited*
I got some distilled water so that I could mix it with 100 grams sodium thiosulfate (and 1 liter distilled water) and I would have a solution that would dechlorinate tap water for 20000 liters. I understand rain water would be better, but I just didn't got to collect it because its summer.
There are no insects on the place and they are under a 40w fluorescent lamp. hopefully they won't need more light because that's all the light I have.
I will take a picture later, when I can.
Edited by guacamolerabbit (07/18/17 06:37 PM)
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JizzMasterZero
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Registered: 11/30/16
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24491212 - 07/18/17 08:44 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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[url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/17-29/038852647-IMG_2848.jpg] [/url] My first berry! This plant also has 2 white berries. I haven't seen any on the other 2.
 My best looking plant. My plants have very few flowers this summer, maybe it's a spring and fall thing.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 9 months, 5 days
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Guacamole: I don't get how it's draining so well without any perlite in there, I got a lot of that in there because drainage is so important. I guess your fibrous materials achieve that.. Better to keep it airy and well-drained so that it falls dry in between waterings, you can always water then when it's all drying out a lot but you can't prevent rot well with a soil that stays moist.
I am amazed how well my plants hold up even though the soil appears dry most of the time and I give limited water using a spoon... but my seedlings have two sets of true leaves now, when they are as young as yours I don't think you keep things *that* dry. In that stage I kept it moist, but again: not wet.
Applying water exactly where the plant is? Meh that's hardly ever the way to go. The more you spread it evenly, and particularly on the edges of the root system, the more you encourage the roots to look for the water. Of course it's pointless to water where there are no roots at all yet, and the seedlings seem to make something like a main taproot spiralling down. The water gets spreaded automatically though when you give it, diffuses through the soil to some extent. IMO don't concentrate the water on the seedling, keep it reasonable, otherwise that also makes it that harder to monitor the wetness when it's really uneven.
Why would the sodium hypochlorite precipitate? If anything it might react with other (inorganic) compounds to form certain insoluble salts, or you might see some other oxidation products.
No way it would ever be close to 1%, that would be incredibly unsafe.
If you use hyposulfate to neutralize hypochlorite you get sulfate and tablesalt, because of the sulfate you may not need to add anything else to the water to maintain your acidity level later on.
It might not be so great though if you have a hard time determining how much you should add to exactly neutralize the chlorine... possibly you don't want to [chronically] overcompensate either.
Would have been more ideal if you could have tested this on some less valuable plants first to see how well they tolerate it.
maybe I'm nitpicky
always novo cola
Edited by Solipsis (07/18/17 02:31 PM)
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guacamolerabbit
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Registered: 01/05/17
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24492350 - 07/18/17 06:02 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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pine bark is similar to perlite in that drainage perspective but I think it drains better, it's a acidic material and, it is airy as well like perlite, but even more airy because it is a more porous and bigger material. I think the only downside is they might just be too airy, but at least one of them has already grown 1 or 2 milimeters.
total residual chlorines = CL2 0,98 miligrams per 33.81 ounces. you are right, not even close to 1%, probably around 0,1% (I will delete that sentence from the previous post).
sorry, that seems like its a hard put chemistry way of thinking, I just followed a guide on how to dechlorinate water...and neutralize all types of chlorines, that's it.
Edited by guacamolerabbit (07/19/17 01:13 PM)
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JizzMasterZero
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My plants have had mostly rain water this summer, and I mean a LOT of rain water. I'm surprised that my Khat don't seem to mind the excess water. When I do use tap water, I fill jugs and let them sit out several hours, preferably overnight before using. My plants seem to be pretty hardy at this point, they don't get special treatment. I harvested a bunch of leaves from one of my plants over a month ago, and it has bounced back well. In fact, it's the one producing berries. I need to strip some leaves from my other two plants soon.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,590
Loc: Mexico
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Quote:
JizzMasterZero said: My plants have had mostly rain water this summer, and I mean a LOT of rain water. I'm surprised that my Khat don't seem to mind the excess water. When I do use tap water, I fill jugs and let them sit out several hours, preferably overnight before using. My plants seem to be pretty hardy at this point, they don't get special treatment. I harvested a bunch of leaves from one of my plants over a month ago, and it has bounced back well. In fact, it's the one producing berries. I need to strip some leaves from my other two plants soon.
I dont let then get too bushy. But i have before. Once they are growing good they really need little care.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode

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guacamolerabbit
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Registered: 01/05/17
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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my seeds are turning on the opposite direction of the light they've been at all day, but they're growing a little, I hope I'm not giving them too much sunlight/lamp light and might end up killing them
Edited by guacamolerabbit (07/19/17 01:30 PM)
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guacamolerabbit
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Also, seems like I overwatered them, the pine bark just keeps a lot of moisture, probably not a good option for these plants. The stem is yellow with brown bits and they are bent where the brown bits are...the seed coat is dry but the stem looks very water saturated...I just opened the case to see if the sun will dry all that water...Should I air them out? I'm going to try that.
Edited by guacamolerabbit (07/21/17 11:50 AM)
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mrmazdarx9
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Registered: 05/15/16
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Yes i would. When i planted mine i just filled a pot with perlite and coir pushed the seeds under the soil about a half inch watered and left them alone no cover, checked on them daily to make sure they werent drying out.
-------------------- COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge COCA GROWERS UNITE
Click here for UK trades
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guacamolerabbit
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The soil was all compact and kinda damp and since they were in a plastic box with no drainage holes, it would be very hard for the type of soil that it is (orchid soil) to dry out...They didn't grow much at all, only like 1/2 inch at maximum after 3 days...
I've watered them like 6-8 times yesterday and before yesterday I watered them quite a bit too...And compacted the soil too much with the water, preventing them to get air.
Now I transplanted them to a soil of the same type but dry...and killed one of them by having broken the head out (with the leaves inside the shell, I will post the pictures, for new growers, the shell might look dry when they are seedlings, but inside, the leaves are perfectly healthy, very green, full of inside moisture and vigorous waiting to comme out, I think that the shell drying is a easier way for them to decompose the hard shell, so they can set free the leaves, without you having to overwater the soil because of moisturing the shell for it to comme out, just let the shell dry, it's better)...lol rip, it sucks. If any new growers are trying them, I recommend you to plant them directly on a big pot, don't try the small pot or trays plating...because you will destroy your seedlings with excesses of water, be carefull.
Edited by guacamolerabbit (07/21/17 01:03 PM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 9 months, 5 days
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As I was worrying then... well, IMO add a massive amount of perlite to that soil and mix it in and replant very soon. It's only getting more and more bothersome to take out the plants if you wait and of course you risk rotting the lot while you wait.
If you worry about the shock to the seedlings, you can scoop out a part of the soil the root/seedling is in with a spoon. Probably not necessary if there is hardly a root yet to speak of, then it should be just like you are only just planting.
Enough perlite will make sure that the soil can dry out for a good part and also not easily get too wet in the first place, though anything spongy retaining water might offset this.
Only question is not whether to add perlite but whether your perlite makes up a quarter or less, or like half of your soil mixture. Half sounds excessive but it would be a match for how surprising the drought tolerance of my novo's is. Seriously: when the typical seedling would be wilting in a dried out soil that doesn't absorb much in the first place these novo's are apparently utterly unfazed. I probably have 1/3 perlite and also sand present making the soil wonderfully loose and grainy. Maybe when these plants start maturing (hopefully I will get that far) and need repotting I will expand with a less perlitey soil mix in an attempt to give better nutrition.
Watering 6-8 times in a day? What on earth? I really doubt there is any way to water minute amounts spread over so many waterings to achieve anything. Of course don't dump a big gush of water in one go (hardly ever seems like a good idea), but once a day should be more than enough. I do use a spoon to have good control over where the water goes.
It's a good sign that you care though.. As you can read earlier in this thread: caring too much can harm them though, especially if it's not the kind of care they want.
Not sure if something like a seed shell is easier to crack when dry, that certainly wasn't true for me. Such a thing only works for things that get brittle when dry like a cracker, but not something that doesn't like beef jerky. But yes they can have a tough time with the seed husks, most of mine found it difficult to shed and I had to help with a scalpel (a very delicate procedure lol) but only as a last resort when they reach about 2 inches in height.. I'd forget about the dryness of the seedhusks, only focus on keeping the soil moist yet not wet, with moments of dryness in between occasionally. Your seedling needs that to develop.
What kind of lamp light do you use / what kind of climate are you in? do you have E. novo or E. coca? Your temperature and humidity do play a role in evaporation of the water. Nice warmth does help dry out soil properly between waterings to prevent rot while cold dampness can be difficult, noticed that growing indoors in a unit.
I'm not an expert on these species by a long shot, just passing on what my experiences taught me (several dropped out for varying reasons, all part of it I guess especially learning for your first time)... but sounds like you have some risky differences to the suggested methods.
Edited by Solipsis (07/21/17 03:16 PM)
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mrmazdarx9
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Registered: 05/15/16
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24498984 - 07/21/17 03:09 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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more drainage=better coca plants. Coca hate getting their feet wet and my E.Coca grow at their best when i water them let them dry out completely then water again keeping them wet can quickly fuck them up.
-------------------- COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge COCA GROWERS UNITE
Click here for UK trades
need some supplies in the UK check Here or PM me UK OTD uk members chat UK supplies and trade OTD place to chat shit Right Here If you use "SWIM" you should DROWN
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,590
Loc: Mexico
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Quote:
mrmazdarx9 said:
more drainage=better coca plants. Coca hate getting their feet wet and my E.Coca grow at their best when i water them let them dry out completely then water again keeping them wet can quickly fuck them up.
Complete opposite with my novos. I can water them quite frequently. But they can go extended periods of time withoit water too. Very odd they are.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode

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