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OfflineMateo
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Solipsis]
    #25044877 - 03/07/18 09:46 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I germinate the seeds/berries in moist sphagnum moss and when they have a root of about 1 cm i plant them in a small seedling pot.
I let them grow in the small pot until i see roots coming out in the bottom and then replant to something little bigger.
Im sure there are other ways too.

And regarding the seed angle when putting them in the first seedling pot I usually try aim for a 45 degree angle.
They probably shoot up regardless but why not make it little easier for them.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Mateo]
    #25047943 - 03/08/18 06:20 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Lucky you mateo. Finally your hard work has paid off. :fonz:


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: ferrel_human]
    #25048160 - 03/08/18 09:33 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks ferrel.

Im happy the berries seem to germinate but my Novo plants really look awful.
It´s because i have spidermites on them.
But there are 2 berries left who are about to get developed so i don´t want to go full chemical warefare until these have dropped or get finnished.
They are getting quite orange now so im quite sure they can germinate but the more developed they get the better.
I might get another growtent and move all cocas except the ones with berries so i can get the treatment going.
Need another growtent anyway for the coming Mitragyna horde.  :smile:


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Mateo] * 1
    #25049558 - 03/08/18 02:43 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Yes...
I do see something green emerging from one of the E.Coca berries.
Yeah, feels good.
:wintheinternet:


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Mateo]
    #25049714 - 03/08/18 03:07 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mateo said:
Yes...
I do see something green emerging from one of the E.Coca berries.
Yeah, feels good.
:wintheinternet:




Hell yeah. :youthemandawg:


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: ferrel_human]
    #25050054 - 03/08/18 05:25 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Tnx :smile:


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Edited by Mateo (03/08/18 05:48 PM)


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Mateo] * 1
    #25054128 - 03/10/18 10:28 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Some info regarding Erythroxylum, a extract from a scientific paper.
If someone is intrested.

Abstract from
Effect of soil pH on mineral element concentrations of two erythroxylum species

Erythroxylum coca var. coca Lam. (E. coca) and Erythroxylum novogranatense var. novogranatense (Morris) Hieron (E. n. novogranatense) are two of four Erythroxylum species grown in the tropics of South America for cultural medicines and the alkaloid benzoylmethylecgonine. In a published study of biomass production over a soil pH range of 3.5 to 7.0, E. coca grew best at a pH equal to and below 5.5, and E. n. novogranatense grew best within the pH range of 4.7 to 6.0. Erythroxylum coca was tentatively classified as more tolerant to metal toxicities [aluminum (Al) and manganese (Mn)] than E. n. novogranatense, however, concentration patterns of mineral elements for E. coca and E. n. novogranatense tissue have not been reported, nor have the mechanisms of differential acid‐soil‐tolerance been elucidated. In the current study, the effects of soil pH on concentrations of Al, calcium (Ca), copper (Cu), iron (Fe), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), Mn, and zinc (Zn) in leaves, stems, and roots were investigated. At pH 3.5, roots of both species accumulated high concentrations of Al that decreased as soil pH increased, however, there was no pH × species interaction. The highest concentration of Ca was found in the leaves of both species, however, E. coca accumulated more Ca as soil pH increased than did E. n. novogranatense. Manganese and Zn levels were highest in roots of both species (E. coca and E. n. novogranatense); levels in all tissues decreased with increasing pH. Manganese concentration was highest in roots of E. coca and Zn concentration was highest in tissues of E. n. novogranatense. Copper, Fe, K, and Mg levels were erratic with increasing pH, indicating that sufficient amounts of these nutrients are acquired at low pH levels. Root concentrations of Fe and K in E. coca increased markedly between pH 3.5 and 4.7. At pH 3.5, E. coca demonstrated no symptoms of mineral deficiency and/or toxicity, however, chlorosis, leaf distortion and root atrophy were prevalent at pH 6.5 and 7.0. By contrast, E. n. novogranatense demonstrated diminished growth and root atrophy at soil pH 3.5, whereas at pH 6.5 and 7.0, although biomass production was reduced, no symptoms of mineral deficiency and/or toxicity were present. The species obviously behave differentially at pH extremes and E. coca appears to be most tolerant of extremely acid soils; the two species may also differ in mineral sensitivities between the species at higher pH levels. Erythroxylum coca may compete more effectively with Al for Ca binding sites within the root, and may have greater internal tolerance of Mn, compared with E. n. novogranatense.


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Mateo]
    #25054651 - 03/10/18 02:16 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I always aim for ph5 - 5.5 always have, my leaves are a lovely lime green.


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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #25054715 - 03/10/18 03:01 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mrmazdarx9 said:
I always aim for ph5 - 5.5 always have, my leaves are a lovely lime green.




I thought they liked an alkalized soil and then to use water that is acidic. Was i wrong in thinking that?


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: ferrel_human]
    #25054803 - 03/10/18 03:51 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

But purely in terms of acidity: they would just neutralize each other? The point of that is possibly related to minerals... if it's something like calcium supplementation that is really the object of what you are saying you might as well just add some calcium chloride.

Yet I see someone writing that lime is best avoided? So..

Best I can tell there is some consensus for a slightly acidic soil type, I did not know E. Coca likes it more acidic than Novo's.

If you know where you got that alkaline soil thing from maybe we could get additional insights.

Mateo, you da man! :dancer:


Edited by Solipsis (03/10/18 03:59 PM)


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Re: Erythroxylum  growers unite [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #25054807 - 03/10/18 03:53 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Can you grow Erythroxylum indoors in the U.S. ? I live in Pennsylvania.


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Erythroxylum  growers unite [Re: HerbalPotion]
    #25054832 - 03/10/18 04:06 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Erythroxylum var. coca and Erythroxylum var. Novogratinese grow very good as houseplants.
If you have dry conditions, low humidity they can be little sad but they can handle it.
If you can grow them outside they would be happier as most plants.
I grow them indoors.

I have read they like acidic soils as they have that where they usually grow in south america.
I can be wrong though.
Many scientific papers say, as the one above, that they do like acidic soils.
E.Coca up to 5.5 and E.Novo between 5 to 6.
I have watered with what i think is about 7 and they grew but have little yellowing leaves.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Erythroxylum  growers unite [Re: HerbalPotion]
    #25054861 - 03/10/18 04:25 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see why not but IMO it depends on how well you and your home can maintain a decent climate, in Pennsylvania I am guessing mostly the issue of cold winters rather than any opposite.

If you don't have a room that can stay above - what was it - about 10C or 50F at the coldest without having to take crazy measures you might have to buy or build something to control your climate.

E. Coca is more sensitive than E. Novo to various factors like humidity, Novo's can adapt better. I also prefer the shape of Novo leaves by comparison, the biggest plus of Coca that I know of is that it is the actual 'notorious' plant with the history (, present) and recognized name. I guess successfully growing E. Coca is also a bigger victory?

Several of my plants have died due to various reasons (actually most from my first batch of berries), each is a lesson learned (even with reading up about it and babying them a bit), but I would rate them (moderately) difficult personally and you should prepare for some tricky stuff like germinating the berries and being conscientious about what you give them (like acidified rain water).. before they 'grow on their own' more.
I am just warning that it's probably a waste of money to start with these species of plants expecting that they sort it out themselves with some soil, water and light. I killed my first two coca plants - which weren't really growing anyway - by looking after them poorly due to extremely turbulent time in my life..
But really, on the other hand: you don't need to be a botanist or anything, you just gotta be committed, be willing to do some reading up, installing some CFL tubes..

You have a high survival rate Mateo? With me, one rotted before breaking free from the seed husk, another few I had to help because they couldn't break free on their own. My most recent problem as far as I can tell was PC fans blowing too closeby combined with too dry winter air (it's not that dry but with the fanning..). Maybe my setups make my grows extra challenging so take all this with a grain of salt.


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Re: Erythroxylum  growers unite [Re: Solipsis]
    #25054876 - 03/10/18 04:37 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Like Solipsis said water quality may play a factor.
If you got plenty of rain or unchlorinated water it should make things easier already.
A window on the sunny side or otherwise adequate lighting would be another great help


Edited by DualWieldRake (03/10/18 04:38 PM)


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Erythroxylum  growers unite [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #25055182 - 03/10/18 08:18 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Definitely, I wish I had any real sun but without any I resort to CFL :smile:

Chlorine is easily lost if you just let water sit, but I guess it's chloramine that is the real problem as it needs more work. Vitamin C fixes that right? We've been over this in one of the recent pages..

I give rain water only because of minerals in tap water, but the indications I have for resorting to this are pretty random. AFAIK some plants are known to be sensitive to even otherwise high quality tap water but it's not like anyone proves what reason might be behind it. Giving tap water sometimes should not be a problem, we're talking about what is given chronically. :smile:

I'd be interested in seeing some mature plants again shown by others here (pretty great successes!)... maybe some insight into how things are going and maybe some minor issues etc, to get a feel..

I can show pics of my seedlings too.. Leaves are kind of pointing up entirely?? But it is too early to comment on it because they've all been under some improv domes until I started releasing some recently.. it could easily due to that I suppose.

Am still seriously considering trying to make a humid growhouse next to my mushroom growhouse/martha and pump in the CO2 rich and humid air (maybe partially lower the humidity a bit though, or its too extreme), that would be so cool for plants like Novo, Kratom, Khat etc... but I'll need some (waterproof) lighting, maybe I can score some at my would-be-job.


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Erythroxylum  growers unite [Re: Solipsis]
    #25055264 - 03/10/18 09:21 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

You think cocas are that hard to grow?

Raising seeds, seedlings and very young plants can be a bit challenging but then they reach say a year old they are pretty easy.
One can always take extra measures to grow them good but i had mine E.Novo plant inside of a window for years with no extra light almost not caring for them at all except watering with ordinary tapwater.
Now that i put them in a growtent they started to really thrive but recently i got spidermites and they look really bad because of that.
My E.Coca plant was shipped to me as a rooted cutting or rooted small plant.
It´s even easier to take care this one witch i find strange as litterature say E.Coca is so sensitive, but i find E.Coca a much more robust plant and more forgiving.
When all my plants look bad because my own grow misstakes my E.Coca allways look better than my E.Novos.
E.Novos easily drop leaves, E.Coca almost never does that.
Just my experienses.


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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: Solipsis]
    #25055649 - 03/11/18 06:25 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Solipsis said:
But purely in terms of acidity: they would just neutralize each other? The point of that is possibly related to minerals... if it's something like calcium supplementation that is really the object of what you are saying you might as well just add some calcium chloride.

Yet I see someone writing that lime is best avoided? So..

Best I can tell there is some consensus for a slightly acidic soil type, I did not know E. Coca likes it more acidic than Novo's.

If you know where you got that alkaline soil thing from maybe we could get additional insights.

Mateo, you da man! :dancer:




I used a wee bit of hydrated lime. Jist a small amount. I added dolomite lime as top dressing. Added milorganite which is a nitrogen iron rich supplement. I suppose that makes it somehwta acidic. And bonemeal. I also ad coffee grpunds to it.

I purchased seeds from a vendor in cusco peru. He said they live in alkalized soil. I was able to buy 65 berries for 95 usd which is very reasonable.


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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: ferrel_human]
    #25056162 - 03/11/18 12:32 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

It does seem like it's getting easier as they get older, yes. I would have to check on what age mine actually are right now.

If we agree that the first year is or can be delicate, that seems highly important to me for anyone asking about growing them.. because if you can't overcome that first year there won't be any years after that.. :smile:

Ferrel: I guess we'd need a little more context? Could be the soil around there is naturally so acidic relatively that they alkalize it but that doesn't mean they grow in soil that is actually quite alkaline in absolute terms?

Seems like the best way to know if your soil is acidic after you have added acids and bases to it is by testing. Buffering aspects of the soil or additives can prevent you from steering away from a certain acidity even though you have technically added something that should change the pH in other cases.

My bigger seedlings have like 4-5 sets of true leaves now and the leaves are kinda bundled pointing up like they forgot to really unfold, lol. Doesn't look unhealthy though. I like my short internodes.
I see some mild damping off now, I guess they can handle it and it shouldn't be a problem if I keep an eye on letting them dry out properly in between waterings. Coffee grounds seem good but like some other slower release nutrients it seems like a risk of damping off as well..

Maybe mushroom compost could be excellent for them, if that stage of decay has already happened. Isn't compost very good to use anyway for a lot of reasons compared to ferts which do not involve a microbial balance and can mold over etc?


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: ferrel_human]
    #25056187 - 03/11/18 12:41 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
Quote:

mrmazdarx9 said:
I always aim for ph5 - 5.5 always have, my leaves are a lovely lime green.




I thought they liked an alkalized soil and then to use water that is acidic. Was i wrong in thinking that?



I always have used straight coir and water with nutes ph'd down to 5-5.5
The only times ive had issues was once growing under 600w hps bulb fried them, in the UK summer time i wanted to save electricity so put them in the window ledge and turned off the tent and that killed a few, and ive twice forgotten to water them and almost killed one plant twice. I used to have about 10 plants all grown from seed never lost a seed, killed one plant thinking the seed needed pulling off once the plant was a few inches tall and it ripped the leaves off. The 2 i have left are about 4 years old now they seem to take alot of my neglect im super forgetful :frown:


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Novo baby cold weather growth [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #25056507 - 03/11/18 02:56 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Jeez man, what kind of lighting do mature Novo's actually need then?... at what age / height is a couple of CFL tubes not good enough anymore?


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