|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
JayWise

Registered: 11/05/17
Posts: 199
|
Re: Coca growers *DELETED* [Re: Solipsis] 1
#24790952 - 11/18/17 06:11 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by JayWise
Reason for deletion: inaccurate
|
DualWieldRake
Stranger


Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Zone 8b
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise]
#24790966 - 11/18/17 06:23 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Nice setup. I would think 125W would be fine for the next stage.
I had 2 sprouts from 5 seeds, probably you'd need amazing germination skills (or really fresh seed) to get 100% sprouting
|
ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise]
#24791923 - 11/18/17 03:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Good stuff jay. Very nice.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
|
JizzMasterZero
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/16
Posts: 772
Last seen: 11 months, 4 days
|
|
My plants just aren't very potent. They are finally big enough to provide a sustainable harvest, but it's just underwhelming to say the least. I chew with baking soda, make tea, and get next to nothing from it, but the plants seem to be doing very well. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding growing or harvesting conditions that can affect potency?
--------------------
|
ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
|
|
Potency compared to what? Cause if you thinking cocaine high you are just gonna be dissappointed. Its nowheres near that potency. More like a strong cup of coffee and a half. Hope that makes sense.
And i dont think there is a way too,up the potency. If im not mistaken its all genetics, but who knows.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
|
Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise]
#24792961 - 11/19/17 03:29 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
JayWise said: I've always been a bit of an Andean culture obsessive so seemed like a great new addition to my hobby!
Me too 
Quote:
JayWise said: Purchased 5 E. novo var truxillense seeds, I received 5 days later in a 'baggie' wrapped in sphagnum moss. Two were already sprouting. I planted four in organic-based grow cubes and one straight into an acidic free-draining soil mix in a bio-degradable pot. They were split between a heated seedling propagator and a small clear plastic storage box with a reptile heating mat below it, both also containing various other seeds and cuttings, all lit by one of those 15W LED arrays (Im aware these arent considered to be very good but figured they might just work for very small seedlings).
The lack of strength of the lights doesn't really affect the plants. they just don't like too much (too strong) light or too long light periods.
Quote:
JayWise said: BUT: The other one has put out a lovely long stem (is this a bit of etoliation due to my crap lights or are they supposed to really stretch out like this?) - YAY!:
Stretch is normal. the stretch is comparable to most small trees. You will have to cut it back and shape it anyway in order to adjust it to your growing space and growing conditions.
Quote:
JayWise said: The others have shown no signs of life as of yet. Now I am two weeks in does this mean I am unlikely to get any joy from these or is there hope yet? Would like to get at least two out of 5 as these are pricey little berries! forward to reading through this whole thread and soaking up the combined wisdom of this wonderful resource.
since you are growing from seed your plants should also produce seeds so if a couple survive you should have a good supply in the future. they can take up to 8 weeks to germinate as far as I know.
Quote:
JayWise said: Thinking of getting one of those cheap 60x60 mini growth tents with a 125W CFL for the next stage, would this work?
Thanks! Jay
Looking
Keep us posted
|
Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero] 1
#24793232 - 11/19/17 08:55 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
|
Teonanacatl2
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/17
Posts: 56
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24793617 - 11/19/17 12:26 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
What is the best way to germinate these seeds? I am 2 meters above sea level. The seeds that i have are erythroxylum coca and have more than two months of harvest. All your plants are beautiful.
|
Teonanacatl2
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/17
Posts: 56
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24793665 - 11/19/17 12:54 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Really really good book about coca history. There is only one criticism from my part in which he says that coca is not cocaine(Chapter I and chapter IX). Coca is cocaine. Anyway, i recommend u this archive from the same page https://archive.org/details/peruhistoryofcoc00mortuoft where it contains the illustrations of mortimer's book.
|
Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
|
|
Quote:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/dbotany/chapter2.htm
Chapter 2: Selecting the Best Plant for Alkaloid Yield
Although coca bushes can grow to the height of twelve feet, they are generally kept pruned down to the height of a man for easier harvest. They have straight branches that are sparsely covered with emerald green leaves, the underside tending toward gray. The leaves are shiny, thin, opaque, oval and more or less tapered at either end. A distinct characteristic of the leaf is an areolated portion, bounded by two longitudinal curved lines, one on each side of the midrib. The lines are much more conspicuous on the underside of the leaf. The flowers are about 1/2 inches - 3/8 inches long and are found in little clusters on short stalks. They are composed of five yellowish white petals, heart-shaped anthers and exhale a faint odor.
Although the leaves of some species span to over a foot in length, those we are interested in are about 3/4 inches - 4 inches long and 3/4 inches - 1 3/4 inches at their widest point. The fruit, which encases the seed, is about 1/2 inches long and will be pale green when first formed, turning to red when ripe. It will look very much like a cranberry at this stage of its development. When it dries it will turn black, conforming to the shape of the enclosed seed, which has six longitudinal lobes, smooth and of a pale flesh color.
The trunk of the bush is covered with rough bark. The branches are sparse and are fern-green when new and will turn various tints of brown to gray as they mature. It is very common to see bud, leaf and flower on the same bush. The flower is also "perfect", in that it contains both male and female sexes and can thus pollinate itself.
Choosing Your Plant
The reason a physical or botanical description of coca was saved for this chapter is that there are many variations of physique as well as different compositions of alkaloids. There are more than a hundred species of coca. They are used as a snakebite remedy (E. anquifuqum), as purgatives (E. campestre), and two species (E.suberosum and E.tortuosum ) yield a red dye. One species (E.areolatum) grows to a height of eighteen feet, and is known as ironwood, or redwood. Some very fine timber is derived from it.
The big "E" in the above botanical name stands for Erythroxylon, which is one of the two genera of coca, the one we're interested in. The majority of Erythroxylon species are found in South America, although several are found in Asia, Africa and Australia. Of all these, only two broad varieties are grown commercially for their alkaloids: E. bolivianum and E.novogranatense. The former is also called Huanuco or Bolivian coca and the latter is generally referred to as Truxillo, or Peruvian coca.
Bolivian or Huanuco coca is the variety of coca that is grown exclusively for the alkaloid cocaine, and is the richest in that alkaloid. Truxillo or Peruvian coca is the bush preferred by the natives -- the coca chewers. The chewers, or those who make coca wine, prefer Truxillo primarily for its aromatic flavor. Besides being less bitter, it also contains several alkaloids that are non-crystalizable, each having its own effect and which are not prominent in the Huanuco variety. Native chewers call Huanuco hajas amargas, or "bitter leaf", whereas Truxillo is referred to as hajas dulces, or "sweet leaf".
|
Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
|
|
Quote:
Teonanacatl2 said: Really really good book about coca history. There is only one criticism from my part in which he says that coca is not cocaine(Chapter I and chapter IX). Coca is cocaine. Anyway, i recommend u this archive from the same page https://archive.org/details/peruhistoryofcoc00mortuoft where it contains the illustrations of mortimer's book.
Thanks for the book, I saved it.
Cocaine is the main alkaloid in the plant but there are others
Quote:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/dbotany/chapter2.htm Ecognine is a second base that will crystalize with some difficulty. It has very little effect on the central nervous system unless a very large dose is taken. It also has no anesthetic properties and the motor nerves are not specifically influenced. Ingestion is followed by slight depression that is in turn very quickly followed by reflex irritability of the spinal cord.
Benzoyl-ecognine is in turn an intermediate compound which has its effect directly on the muscle similar to caffeine. It has, in fact, so great an affinity for muscle that it is imbibed by adjacent muscles so thoroughly that more distant structures receive very little of the drug.
Cocamine is a local anesthetic nearer in resemblance to cocaine than the other alkaloids. It has the effect of being a general stimulant, although it acts specifically on muscle. Upon ingestion the pupils become dilated at first, then become excessively small. Although it is of the same empirical composition as cocaine, it is somewhat weaker in anesthetic action.
Hygrine is another of the bases and comes out in the form of a volatile liquid of a peculiar odor – very much the same as that of nicotine. When ingested, this base causes a burning or tingling sensation of the tongue.
Ever since the isolation of cocaine in the 1850's not nearly enough attention has been paid in researching these various alkaloids. They were at first described as "decomposition products" and not alkaloids at all. They were thought to be developed by changes taking place in the extraction of cocaine or in the deterioration of the leaves. The non-crystallizable substance has been called variously cocaicine, cocainoidine and cocamine. There has been considerable playing around with this substance and a great number of different chemical compositions have been arrived at, but unfortunately little attention has been paid to their combined physiological effect. There are, though, important principles in coca that are offering a distinctly different physiological effect than any one of its alkaloids. It is hard to believe that 8,000,000 Andeans can be wrong.
The choice, though a difficult one without having chewed, is up to the cultivator: Truxillo or Peruvian coca bushes for the chewer; Huanuco, or Bolivian coca for the snorter, who wishes to go to the trouble of extracting the cocaine.
Quote:
Pharmacology and Abuse of Cocaine, Amphetamines, Ecstasy and Related Designer Drugs Coca contains at least 14 separate alkaloids. An alkaloid is a naturally occurring nitrogen-containing compound, which shows a basic, i.e. an alkaline reaction, resulting in water-soluble salts when added to an acid. It is assumed that alkaloids are produced by the plant as a type of defense against insects and herbivores. They are usually bitter tasting, and often have psychoactive properties.
|
DBCOOPERCE
Stranger

Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 58
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24793785 - 11/19/17 02:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Please tell me Cocalero, why wouldn't a cutting produce seeds? It makes no sense to me.
|
Teonanacatl2
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/17
Posts: 56
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24793806 - 11/19/17 02:47 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Damn u are right buddy, damn u are right! And since the isolation of cocaine in the 1850's not nearly enough attention has been paid in researching these various alkaloids! And this is because the pharmaceutical industries know what generates money, and it's our fault, brothers, because we as a society create those pharmaceutical industries, the state, the laws, etc. But it doesnt matter people, we will be reborn again. I fucking love u all people!
|
Feroxx
Master of the Green Fist



Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 688
Loc: Cruel sun
|
|
Quote:
DBCOOPERCE said: Please tell me Cocalero, why wouldn't a cutting produce seeds? It makes no sense to me.
i have read something like that, that cuttings do not produce fertile seeds or seeds at all, also, once the seed falls off the plant, it has 1 month remaining of life, wont sprout after that, iboga lasts 4 months.
|
ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24793863 - 11/19/17 03:24 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cocalero said: found a decent book on the history of coca you guys might be interested in
https://ia801400.us.archive.org/10/items/peruhistorycoca00mortgoog/peruhistorycoca00mortgoog.pdf
Ive just read a couple of paragraphs from the preface and let me just say i already find it immensely interesting.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
|
Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
|
|
To answer you question: Some species are self incompatible and therefore if you have 1 plant from which you take clones all your subsequent clone plants will share the same genes and can't reproduce
Quote:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/dbotany/chapter2.htm
The trunk of the bush is covered with rough bark. The branches are sparse and are fern-green when new and will turn various tints of brown to gray as they mature. It is very common to see bud, leaf and flower on the same bush. The flower is also "perfect", in that it contains both male and female sexes and can thus pollinate itself.
Quote:
Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society Volume 78, Issue 1, January 1979, Pages 11–20
Erythroxylum coca is a distylous species with a strong self-incompatibility system linked with the floral dimorphism. The two sets of stamens in the flowers are usually unequal in length, but between individuals of both morphs there is considerable variation in the relative lengths of the two sets of stamens, which is unrelated to the incompatibility system. Pin flowers produce more pollen grains than thrum flowers, but thrum pollen is larger than pin pollen. Within each morph the two sets of stamens produce pollen grains of slightly different diameter. Erythroxylum novogranatese is also distylous. Pin flowers of E. novogranatense var. novogranatense are partially self-compatible, while thrum flowers of E. novogranatense var. truxillense are self-incompatible. Reports of tristyly and of four different morphs in species of Erythroxylum are probably misinterpretations, resulting from limited sampling, of the continuous variation in the relative lengths of the two sets of stamens.
Greetings
|
JayWise

Registered: 11/05/17
Posts: 199
|
Re: Coca growers *DELETED* [Re: Cocalero]
#24794944 - 11/20/17 05:31 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by JayWise
Reason for deletion: .
|
Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise]
#24795465 - 11/20/17 11:22 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
For next time: sow/plant in a soil mix that is *much* better draining. I use about 1/3 perlite perhaps give or take and a small quantity to make the rest which is coco coir based soil, pretty loose. But it's only a small quantity of sand, these aren't cacti.
I also pasteurize the soil portion to prevent any damping off. Also the amount of water you initially add seems critical, it should be a bit moist only... any extra will easily lead to rot and greater seedling death rate especially if you soil does not allow water to drain easily.
I water once every 4-5 days, and again: carefully moisten the soil rather than wet.
Nobody should expect 100% unless they live in the native region, have fresh berries and luck... freshness does matter a lot.
|
DualWieldRake
Stranger


Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Zone 8b
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis] 1
#24795608 - 11/20/17 12:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I realized my what i thought was var. coca might actually be var. novo

Looks like it?
|
Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
|
Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise] 2
#24795634 - 11/20/17 12:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Decided to tackle the sulfur bleach today



I flushed the dirt a few times and cut back some growth in order to shape the bush to collect light more evenly...


Finally I watered it with Camellia Fertiliser which is exceptionally high in Sulfur
Some Coca leaves


Some Novo leaves and flowers


Greets
|
|