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naum



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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55-60 F is the danger zone in my experience. Even short cold snaps of a few hours can kill established plants.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: Coca growers [Re: naum]
#24740613 - 10/27/17 06:34 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thnx! Yea i built it there are fans yeah like the two big black ones in the right wall, those are exhausts, opposite are two small inlet fans. The COB and metal halide both have a dedicated fan because they get hot yes. It wouldn't be a pleasant climate without fans no, besides without this much ventilation it's pretty easy (especially for some bushy herbs) to mold away hard! Found that out the hard way.. so now there is a constant breeze flowing which seems ideal.
The bottom exhaust isn't always on..
Temp in the bottom tier is now 22C / 71C, that's in the shade though so yeah I will definitely be careful with burning plants - hot pepper plants don't seem to mind taking a little heat now - their growth really jumpstarted with the COB! I am monitoring for sunscald etc for a while before I dare put my baobab under there or other precious ones.
I get cold during winter compared to other seasons even though it's supposed to be pretty warm in my living room / home... Perhaps relatively cold floors, or something to do with the humidity as well? Either way I am not liking that idea for my novo's but I guess it was irrational to put the older seedlings in the cabinet while a new batch of seedlings is growing under the CFL (and doing well! picked one seedshell off one successfully, two other ones were able to shake it on their own which is a first for me believe it or not).
In general the idea is that I like to put plants that can take it in the cabinet if just to make room for new seedlings. It also is more humid in the cabinet it seems.
I need to stay on top of my game to avoid fungus and other issues becoming problems in the cabinet, but I will also try to do my best not to let the seedlings under the CFL be affected by the colder season.
It's a bit of an experiment as well, to see how different plants (now novo's) behave under the blue-boosted LEDs. Many plants get a different morphology and even sometimes changes in pigmentation.

On the right under CFL (left pic tho) are cactus seedlings and a salvia cutting with a leaf sticking out, idk what is making my scop hybrids so red.. maybe i'll put a heating stone.
Edited by Solipsis (10/27/17 06:43 AM)
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24770939 - 11/09/17 07:28 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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55 degrees fahrenheit. Still,looking good.

Anybody care to guess how much of a temperature drop will affect them? Im kinda amazed at how well they look.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Yeah man they look fine! 
I read (might have been very anecdotal) that 18C / 65F might be something of an optimum for novos. You have coca though? Leaves are bit pointy, bad memory smoked too much weed lately
Point is, those temperatures are not that far off from yours so I would be surprised if novos couldn't handle it. Coca i read it can be very unforgiving yes. If they forgave you you must have done something right (/are doing something very right) but I wouldn't really tempt fate anymore.
Novos are supposed to be able to adapt, but 50% RH isn't enough? Still not sure what is stalling mine, and I put one back in a propagator. The light is the only real thing I can think of that they don't like when I switched them, but I figured that since I can gradually shift them from under the LED towards my COB I can find a sweet spot (though might get hotter and dryer)... we'll see about all that.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24776053 - 11/11/17 02:21 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mine are novos. But yeah these forgive like a mofo.
Are,yours growing? Or,not all? Do they look bad? Got any pics? I think mrmazdar is the one that grows coca inside under lights.so hooefully he will chime in.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Not growing, not really looking bad but I have lost a leaf here (maybe 3 in total, i have 3 older plants and up to 8 or so babies) and there and have seen some sad drooping (perks right up with added humidity dome, thanks DWR)
I can show a pic in a new day with new light tomorrow but it's not much different from what I've shown before: just about ~4 sets of leaves, a fine looking top which occasionally has a premature rolled up leafhair wilt and dry off and other than that just stalling.
Best guess I have right now is humidity since it fixed the hanging leaves once or twice when it happened, or lighting since that is what changed for them.
My CFL rig is getting overcrowded as fog
Edited by Solipsis (11/11/17 04:20 PM)
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24776288 - 11/11/17 04:44 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know, humidity has never played a factor with me. Only thing is when they sprout. You gotta keep the seed hull moist so it splits.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Ah, that's priceless info! I did try with domes my first run, a little, but I had much less difficulty with my second run and a lot more domes I think it significantly affected my success rate. You can help one seedling with the shedding and coming of age but probably not all of em.
Well, it'll only take a novice 19 pages to find out how much this can actually matter.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24776848 - 11/11/17 09:49 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Solipsis said: Ah, that's priceless info! I did try with domes my first run, a little, but I had much less difficulty with my second run and a lot more domes I think it significantly affected my success rate. You can help one seedling with the shedding and coming of age but probably not all of em.
Well, it'll only take a novice 19 pages to find out how much this can actually matter.

Givw me,more seed. This time i swear i will document every step of the way.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Definitely man, that would be nice - we could use more 'composite teks' and repositories with tips someone else already gathered from all over for you... so that not everyone has to go through the same mistakes too much. Someone with experience and too much time, I did that kind of stuff for psychedelics. And I saw a great one here for Mitragyna for example, which could be great merged into the main thread's OP or something.
Maybe some sources can sponsor a brother like you to write it up in order to encourage new growers.
I know everyone has their own style and recipe but the same challenges have to be overcome.
So what are your priceless tips guys? I echo the humidity thing, to keep it up with a sawn off plastic soda bottle or something when your seedling (still doing the seedhusk rodeo) is poking the saran wrap you initially put over the pot.
I water about once every 4 days with rainwater with an added small crystal of citric acid, don't sprinkle multiple ones I checked the pH today when I did that and it was 4, which is like 30 times too much acid compared to 5.5 which is what it should be, more or less. The plants don't even flinch when you let the soil dry for days, even when it is well-draining. Key is the perlite which does retain water without any bogging, you can put in quite a lot of that stuff.
Of course the sphagnum moss is great for germinating but keep it sanitized. I also recommend pasteurizing the soil component of your mix. Keep an eye on your oven when pasteurizing though, many ovens lie about the actual temperature and you shouldn't heat the soil too much or it will create toxins apart from defeating the purpose of pasteurizing.
Lost one seedling immediately apparently: it didn't surface and I just checked - it was gone right away. I think it's very likely that pot was too wet and it rotted despite everything. So a warning to only gently moisten the soil you plant in. Don't worry too much about too little water when you cover the thing anyway with plastic and a rubber band.
Which leaves me with 7 and an apparent 8th one surfacing with a little delay.
I guess it is a bit of tightrope walking since you need humidity for things like keeping the seed husk soft, but any excess water will lead to rotting. Therefore focus a lot of attention on how moderately moist you make your sowing soil mix initially, don't be hasty. I use a spoon to water carefully at the start but I stop with that when the plants are on their way.
Edited by Solipsis (11/13/17 06:07 AM)
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DualWieldRake
Stranger


Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Zone 8b
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis] 1
#24779390 - 11/13/17 07:56 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Solipsis said: Not growing, not really looking bad but I have lost a leaf here (maybe 3 in total, i have 3 older plants and up to 8 or so babies) and there and have seen some sad drooping (perks right up with added humidity dome, thanks DWR)
I can show a pic in a new day with new light tomorrow but it's not much different from what I've shown before: just about ~4 sets of leaves, a fine looking top which occasionally has a premature rolled up leafhair wilt and dry off and other than that just stalling.
Best guess I have right now is humidity since it fixed the hanging leaves once or twice when it happened, or lighting since that is what changed for them.
My CFL rig is getting overcrowded as fog
Me? Someone else must have given you this tip i don't do humidity myself. Have 2 coca's and one is parked next to the radiator, besides the salvia 
I try not to let the pots dry out completely though, usually it works
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24779516 - 11/13/17 08:50 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I feel that not all seeds are created equal, obviously. Some will definitly be more stronger than the other. So if money is no option, buy as many as you can. The strongest will survive.
Here they are as babies.

They shared many homes and had some good neighbors along the way.

Here they are when i was at my,parents house.

Thats when they were really looking good. Winter of 2015. Its best to choose a location and leave them there because after that stint away from,home i was left with only the 2 i have left.
As you can see some,never recover cause there is only 4 left.

One of the ones that made it.

Looking real good. Notice it staked up. Ive never been able to,keep a baby without staking it up. Those little stems are flimsy.
Further along. The 2 in thw back never made it.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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I absolutely love that color and shape of the leaves, so soft and smooth somehow, delicate  i'm the envious one buddy, are you nuts xD i hear panflutes in my mind when i see your pics
Sorry dwr maybe it was big bad wooof with that particular tip or someone in this thread. Right next to the radiator huh? ballsy I think above the radiator is the real deadzone although I just block that air with some newspapers like right now (the only place to accomodate purple basil etc now that it is getting too cold outside... better than nothing)
I think I should see soon enough what my novos prefer and act accordingly...
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
#24780619 - 11/13/17 03:54 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Solipsis said: Right next to the radiator huh? ballsy I think above the radiator is the real deadzone
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Haha ok depends on how close "right next to it" is, IME though the rising hot air can be really killing since thats how the air flows Ill shut up now
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Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis] 2
#24789676 - 11/17/17 02:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi everyone here are my 2 plants and some cuttings i took

This is the Erythroxylum var e Coca. It is suffering from a sulfur deficiency, but I can't water it until the soil is a bit dryer

The novo is doing well, has had a few harvests and a few prunes and trims

I'm not a big fan of the fresh leaves. After the harvest I steam them in a bamboo steamer for a few seconds and them press them in between kitchen towels and a stack of news paper to dry. after that i pound and grind them in a granite mortar as fine as i can get with a pinch of Xylitol and baking soda. The final product is a kind of Matcha tea fine powder. i took the method from traditional green tea matcha.
most interesting at the moment is the development of the clones. I would like to see them survive.
How do I grow?
I gathered most of my knowledge from http://www.angelfire.com/planet/dbotany/javacocahistory.htm
I am using 900Watt LED lighting with upgraded 120mm silent fans. I used a lot of playground sand and clay in my soil mix as this keeps the acidity relatively high which many people will know who have aquariums. I googled daylight times in bolivia because I had the light on too long in the beginning coming from cannabis (more is more), with coca less is more im at 13/11 currently with good results.
The growth rate of the var e coca accelerated dramatically when i repotted them, flushed the dirt and fed it with nutes. but I recently found out that none of my ferts contain sulfur which is contained mainly in special hydrangea or hortensia ferts. The lack of sulfur in the dirt caused the discolouration of new leaves. apart from this they have no deformation.
Greets from Dallas
Edited by Cocalero (11/17/17 02:56 PM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24789757 - 11/17/17 03:12 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't believe Erythroxylum Coca nor E. Novo are varieties per se, they are species. You use var. xxx if it is a variety of a certain species, confusingly there different are varieties of novo (I abbreviate) and coca leading people to refer to the regular varieties as E. Novo var Novo and E. Coca var coca...
You aren't really in the wrong and I really don't want to be a dick, but I'd recommend reserving the clarification of your variety for making clear that you are specifically not talking about E. Coca var. Ipadu or E. Novo var. Truxillense. Just a suggestion..
That said, I'm jealous as F at those lush plants and even successful cuttings
Kudos!
900W lighting seems like a lot... I am constantly being suggested that my Novo's don't really want that much light, but they seem to be doing badly where I got em now in limited light.. 
Even got another leaf dropping and another young plant with browning leaves
So unfair though, am really not neglecting them or anything, this information is confusing and it is kinda angering
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Cocalero


Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Here
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24789818 - 11/17/17 03:46 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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what kind of light are you using? 900 Watt LED isn't as strong as other lights.
I am using the description of the types as described here http://www.angelfire.com/planet/dbotany/differences.htm
The only time i ever had problems with the plants is when i changed tents and location and the temps fluctuated too much. i followed the advice from dbotany and added a lot of sand for acidity and drainage which they have loved from day 1. I also use red clay pellets and shrapnel and perlite. I tried using a fan to have some air flow in the tent. but they really hated that so now i just use a fan for extraction.
I forgot to mention earlier that i used a little root magic called Mycorrhiza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza), there were no adverse reactions to the "root fungus".
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
#24790928 - 11/18/17 05:44 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I started with CFL and then low power LED but I also have HID and COB which I don't put these plants under because I was under the impression that it would be too much and they hate it... the COB is 72W full spectrum and very bright, but I probably have much less space between the plants and the light (i have little choice)
Sand itself has a neutral pH... but yeah well draining soil is important for sure. I am not sure what else is in your soil besides what you mentioned to bring down the pH but I add citric acid to acidify the rainwater I give em.
I wish I had mycorrhizal fungi added to my soil! That seems great.
Correct naming of species would be Genus, Species, (Variety)... by saying E. var Coca you skipped the species name which also happens to be Coca. I was saying if you just have the default variety you don't have to mention it anyway so E. Coca is good. If what you said is a shorthand and is proper practice then sorry, ignore me. Of course it was clear what you're saying but just wanted to point out that I wouldn't make a habit of that, because the variety and species name are not always the same and it would be very unclear if you forget to mention the species name just like if you give your first and middle name to the authorities but not your last name or something.
E. Coca loves a lot more light than E. Novo apparently so that will explain it.
Not sure if I have seen that link before so thanks, dbotany is nice anyway
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