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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Anyone know about working with wood?
#23394234 - 06/29/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I need to strip back, sand, and re-varnish my beautiful solid oak dining table to sell before I move out of my house next week, and I have to admit, while I'm a dab hand at mechanics and IT, wood is a bit of a foreign medium to me.
I borrowed an orbital sander from a friend, and picked up some 240 grip sandpaper strips (as advised by the dude in the hardware store), only it seems to be having fuck all effect at stripping back the existing varnish so that I can blend the worn spots you can see in the pic below before I re-varnish:

Now I've heard people talk about using broken glass or liquid strippers to take it back, but I thought a sander would do the job more thoroughly. Do I need a coarser grit of a different method IYO?
Any help would be MASSIVELY appreciated.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Jokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23394240 - 06/29/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Probably OTT, but just to highlight the bits I need to fix:
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Brown Buffalo
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23394259 - 06/29/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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If the sander is a pretty good one, you should be able to do the job.
Try a bigger grit paper, according to this, if you're using P240 it may be too small, while 240 µm one should be good but you still could try 336 one.
I did many reconditionings on old wood and it's always a pain in the ass, I have a pretty good sander but it's still a boring job, especially for old furniture, maybe because I dont choose my paper right
I'd try another paper or try making more pressure with the sander, without stressing it too much, since you don't need to do legs and such, right?
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shLong



Registered: 03/04/10
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Loc: 'sconsin
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Brown Buffalo] 2
#23394284 - 06/29/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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240 grit? That's like paper 
I would personally go with 120, then 150, then 220 (or the 240 you apparently have)
80 grit would get the job done fastest, but you'd have to sand more to smooth it later.
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Brown Buffalo]
#23394292 - 06/29/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks man, nah, no need to do the legs, masked them off. I guess I was expecting to see some amount of progress after going at it for 30 minutes but perhaps I need to devote a few hours?
That, or go coarser grit from sounds of things? Bloody shop are all shut now...
Sander seems decent, is there a technique to using an orbital that perhaps I'm not getting?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Jokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: shLong]
#23394296 - 06/29/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shLong said: 240 grit? That's like paper 
I would personally go with 120, then 150, then 220 (or the 240 you apparently have)
Ah thanks SHlong. So when I can hit the shops again I'll get multiple grades and work up from coarse to fine?
Wish the dude in the shop suggested that, we were literally staring at the mixed packs with probably those 3 in the same pack...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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shLong



Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 2
#23394305 - 06/29/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I would.
I've never redone a table, but am a woodworker, so I do use sandpaper everyday (36, 80, 120, 150, and 220)
80 is my favorite...
If possible, I'd start there, get the bulk done, and then use the rest to sand it all smooth.
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: shLong]
#23394321 - 06/29/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Could you recommend the gradients to go please SHlong?
Would it need to go 80 -> 120 -> 180 -> 240 say (I don't veven know what that the standard grades are...)
Thanks man.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? *DELETED* [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23394334 - 06/29/16 01:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Shroomslip
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 2
#23394338 - 06/29/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just got done stripping and restoring a china cabinet recently. Stuff really sucks to use but this stuff works:

You "paint" it on with a cheap brush and let it sit for 15-20 minutes then use a soft (plastic) putty knife and the old finish comes off in sheets effortlessly. Then you can sand starting at 80 and moving up as you go to about 150-180 (220 if you really wanna) then you can stain (if you want) and apply new sealant.
Whole process as I did it: Get heavy duty chemical resistant gloves (nitrile won't cut it. I think the ones I have were 4 bucks at home depot and they're PVC coated. This stuff burns like dry ice when it gets on your skin). Put down a plastic drop cloth under the table with a good 2-3 foot extra on each side so none of the stuff can get on the floor or anything. The stuff works best on horizontal surfaces. Pour it right out of the can onto the surface and use the paintbrush to put on a really thick coat (the thicker the better, worry less about using too much and more about using not enough). Work in areas you can coat and scrape within a 20 minute window. The stuff will start to dry again and become difficult to scrape off and then you have to reapply a new layer and let it work again. While you're painting on the initial layer/spread of it, do your best to keep the surfaces you've already went over "wet". Use steel wool (will be by the sand paper) to get to hard to reach spaces and tight corners. Once done, wipe the entire thing down with a heavy amount of mineral spirit to get rid of any left over stripper. Then you can start sanding as normal.
You can just sand it all down, but it's gonna take a long time and your sand paper is going to keep getting clogged quickly due to the finish on the table. Regardless of what grit you use.
That process was used on this:


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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Jokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: stevo]
#23394340 - 06/29/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I thought about it, but would one not end up with a lesser quality finish in the end?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23394354 - 06/29/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Woah, thanks for the beautifully detailed writeup Shroomslip!!
So you really reckon starting from paper up is gonna gunk up the coarser grades bad huh? I noticed this 240 grip getting pretty damn gunked, which I tried to mitigate by cleaning it a bit, but IYO without the chemical treatment first I am, basically, in for a gunkfest?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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shLong



Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
Loc: 'sconsin
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23394360 - 06/29/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like I said I've never done what you're doing, so chemicals may be the better option, but if you choose to do sandpaper only, then yes, you have the right idea.. 80-120-150-and then 240,but 150 gets it pretty smooth... Anything over 150 will just get it super smooth, for the perfectionists
If you can't find those specific numbers, whatever you can find that's close will work, and then work your way up.
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: shLong]
#23394371 - 06/29/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ah yeah, I don't need perfection, as it's going right up for sale when it's done. Prob varnish after 150 in that case?
It's a bloody expensive table, prob £1,500+ new, I got it for £500 due to the marks I never got round to fixing, but I reckon I can pull £7-800 well finished.
So it's basically a case of make it look the best I can to get the most money for it. Know those times when every penny helps? Yeah, this is one of those times...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Shroomslip
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23394389 - 06/29/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah it's gonna gunk up pretty fast. I mean if you use 60 or 80 you can probably get it all off it's just gonna take awhile and you're going to go through a lot of sand paper doing it. Sand paper (dry at least) is designed for wood dust, sealant and finishes don't behave like wood dust, they fill in all the gaps of the sand paper and smooth themselves out and it happens pretty fast. You can turn 80 grit sand paper into basically 400+ grit pretty fast. Wet sanding will do a little better on finishes (I also have experience with this) but eventually the same thing will happen to that too, plus wet sanding is messy and it's used to smooth out the finish, not strip it off.
It's basically up to you which route you wanna go with. Unless the sealant is laid on super thick, sand paper will get you a smooth clean surface eventually. Just make sure you're sanding everything evenly. That's another plus to the chemical approach. The risk of sanding your surfaces to uneven is less since you have to spend less time sanding.
I can't be sure and wouldn't want to try to be over the computer and steer you wrong, but it's also possible you could just scuff up the entire surface of the table with a rougher grit and progress to finer grits until it's completely uniform, then lay a new coat of varnish down without having to get to bare wood first. Over the computer the safest thing I can tell you is to get to bare wood, but in person I might make a different decision.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Jokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23394407 - 06/29/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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LOL. I love wet sanding. But my only experience is with metals and car bodywork.
I think I may as well pick up a chemical stripper when I get to the shops tomorrow from the sounds of things. Then just work up through the grits. Sounds like the job is gonna take about 10x as long as I had anticipated!!!
How long do you need between the stripper coming off and starting sanding Shroomslip?
Thanks again man!!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Shroomslip
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23394421 - 06/29/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Once you get the stuff off and wipe it all down with mineral oilspirits, pretty much just as soon as the wood is dry which doesn't take long. Maybe 30 minutes? I wore a respirator during the first sanding just out of caution. Theoretically you shouldn't need to since you're supposed to have it all off before sanding though. Just if you got one, I'd throw it on just in case. Once you feel that shit on your skin (and it will happen ) you might wonder what it would do to your lungs. At the very least I'd probably take it outside and put a fan on me or something.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
Edited by Shroomslip (06/29/16 02:18 PM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23394428 - 06/29/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I still got face masks from inoculating jars!
Mineral oil? Ok, that's something else i'll need. I thought something like Isopropanol would do the trick?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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PassiveMenis
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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23394430 - 06/29/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I heard yur mum knows a thingertwo about working with wood
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Shroomslip
Architekt



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Re: Anyone know about working with wood? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23394441 - 06/29/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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mineral spirits, not oil I corrected it. I have no idea if iso would work or not. I have mineral spirits on hand for cleaning out my stain brushes and stuff and buy it by the gallon. That's what it said to use on the can so I do. Go to the automotive section in walmart and buy blue shop towels if you don't have them already. They're about as cheap as regular paper towels but work much better for that type of thing. If you do a lot of wet sanding and body work I'm sure you already know about those though.
Also (in my store) they have empty paint cans for a few bucks by the wood stains and stuff, get a gallon one of those to put all the crap you scrape off and put your spirit stained rags in. Mineral spirit rags can spontaneously combust as they dry. I dunno how high the risk is (hasn't happened to me yet) but I throw them in an old cooking pot until they're completely dry just in case. Though the usual recommendation is put them in a sealed metal container (like a paint can).
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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