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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Oysters Commercial
#23393401 - 06/29/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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[gradient:#15E826,#][/gradient] Starting a commercial gourmet operation.Any experts around? No offense novices, but I don't have time to experiment. I need some help dividing my space so I can produce lots of beautiful golden oysters. Total space 10 ft. x 20 ft. I need to divide this space into 4 areas: Climate control equipment, spore production(clean room), dark grow room, and fruiting chamber. My thoughts are 12 x 20 fruiting chamber, climate control and clean room both 5 x 4, and dark room 5 x 8. Is this a good division of space? I already have a space for substrate prep ready to go. I have grown as a hobby for a short time, but I have done lots of research. I am by no means an expert, but I think I have a good grip on the basics. I would prefer to talk to people who are already growing commercially for restaurants and farmers markets. If you are a hobbyist who happens to be an expert great, but please have experience with specifically golden oysters. Thanks in advance for any help and God bless.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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---->expert ------->spore production room ----------->....

Lambert sells golden oyster spawn. I recommend growing around 65f for best color. Good luck.
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: drake89]
#23393868 - 06/29/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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So you are saying half my fruiting room? So I could grow some kings as well in the other half?
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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>spore production room Yes! Flow hood to inoculate jars with liquid spore. Dark storage for mycel growth. Then jar mycel transfer to substrate for bagging and hanging in dark room. I also want to make some spore prints once I have some harvest and then make my own liquid spore syringes. hmm... but it's ok laugh if you want.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
Edited by Shroom4Profit (06/29/16 11:23 AM)
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HericiumHeadGuy
Stranger

Registered: 01/18/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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I suggest you read some good book first. Nobody in commercial growing i know of use spore for inoculation. You just give yourself as a total noob, no offense. You were given a great advice to buy spawn from professional lab if you wanna be a fruiter. Just sayin
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Yerow
Stranger



Registered: 09/22/14
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Think he is talking about using Liquid cultures which is fine. I wouldnt do it from spores though, you should make your LC's from agar
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: Yerow]
#23394356 - 06/29/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't like agar... I know a lot of people do, but it's not for me... gonna go jars and oats with syringes. Not a noob. I just don't like agar and never have.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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SpinScratch
Distrusted Cultivator



Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 826
Last seen: 30 days, 4 hours
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I have something to tell you that would make growing oysters a lot easier for you... but im not an expert so I will stay out of this.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: Yerow]
#23394393 - 06/29/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yerow said: Think he is talking about using Liquid cultures which is fine. I wouldnt do it from spores though, you should make your LC's from agar 
Really you should get a book on cultivating gourmet mushrooms, or do a lot more research before doing anything else. Like Drake said, you are way better off purchasing spawn, when you go to making your own spawn for your commercial production you want to know EXACTLY what you are doing, and that wont involve spores, or LC, or at least it shouldn't.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Shroom4Profit said: I don't like agar... I know a lot of people do, but it's not for me... gonna go jars and oats with syringes. Not a noob. I just don't like agar and never have.
I'm sorry to hear that, well unless you purchase spawn, or at least learn agar work you are inevitably going to fail as a commercial operation.
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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Quote:
Shroom4Profit said: >spore production room Yes! Flow hood to inoculate jars with liquid spore. Dark storage for mycel growth. Then jar mycel transfer to substrate for bagging and hanging in dark room. I also want to make some spore prints once I have some harvest and then make my own liquid spore syringes. hmm... but it's ok laugh if you want.
okay 
Read GGMM and maybe TMC, it will give you a solid foundation and you can reference it for answers to 99% of the questions you might have when setting up a small scale commercial op.
There are certainly some experts here and they provide heaps of information but you have to have enough knowledge in the first place to ask the right questions or it's going to be hard for people to help you. You will also get some poor information along the way and you will struggle to differentiate between what is useful and what will waste your time without a basic understanding of mycology.
Quote:
Shroom4Profit said: I don't like agar... I know a lot of people do, but it's not for me... gonna go jars and oats with syringes. Not a noob. I just don't like agar and never have.
Oysters do not do well from spore, both hobby growers and commercial growers alike use isolate strains, normally produced by companies dedicated to developing them. If you don't want to start your grainspawn from agar that's fine, there are plenty of growers that buy in their spawn and expand it or even use it for bulk substrate directly, all these methods are viable. What isnt though is using spores, could it work? sure, but it's not a viable method of commercially cultivating oysters.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
Edited by weetsie (06/29/16 02:23 PM)
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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You do realize the amount of spawn and jars you would have to deal with to grow into commercial right. I cant Imagine inoculating 50 lb.s of spawn in jars with a needle!
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Already read GGMM, have the pdf on my pc. It has good info, but limited. It doeesn't talk about my set of circumstances. And I'm not innoculating bales of hay with a needle. I am inoculating jars with grain substrate with a syringe of LC. Then using the jars to mix with the straw. I already have that part figured out it's the division of space and the duct I need the most help with.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Shroom4Profit said: Already read GGMM, have the pdf on my pc. It has good info, but limited. It doeesn't talk about my set of circumstances. And I'm not innoculating bales of hay with a needle. I am inoculating jars with grain substrate with a syringe of LC. Then using the jars to mix with the straw. I already have that part figured out it's the division of space and the duct I need the most help with.
It sounds like a hobby grow then, just have fun and experiment with it. Like someone already stated, when you learn more and know what kind of questions to ask, we are here.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Shroom4Profit said: Already read GGMM, have the pdf on my pc. It has good info, but limited. It doeesn't talk about my set of circumstances. And I'm not innoculating bales of hay with a needle. I am inoculating jars with grain substrate with a syringe of LC. Then using the jars to mix with the straw. I already have that part figured out it's the division of space and the duct I need the most help with.
A jar is roughly a pound of spawn, so lets say you want to make 50 jars of spawn, thats a lot of needle work. Go back to the GGMM pdf and read the chapter on first generation grain spawn. If you are going to make your own spawn for commercial production, that is how it is done. I dont know why you came here to ask us questions but refuse any sensible answer, no ones giving you opinions just facts.
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Yerow
Stranger



Registered: 09/22/14
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Marty Mycfly said:
Quote:
Yerow said: Think he is talking about using Liquid cultures which is fine. I wouldnt do it from spores though, you should make your LC's from agar 
Really you should get a book on cultivating gourmet mushrooms, or do a lot more research before doing anything else. Like Drake said, you are way better off purchasing spawn, when you go to making your own spawn for your commercial production you want to know EXACTLY what you are doing, and that wont involve spores, or LC, or at least it shouldn't.
Why would you say that? Been growing gourmets the past year or so and i feel like i got a pretty good grip on it. LC's LI's and such are very common, also for gourmet growers.. I do grain master jars with agar to larger bags with grains, which i would think is the most prefered method. Unless sure you want to buy your spawn That being said, still, LC's are fine if started from agar imo.
He could easily make a LC or LI, use it for a few master jars and go that route. 
Also, wont involve spores or LC? If there is no spores/agar work involved how in the hell should he make his own spawn then
Edited by Yerow (06/29/16 03:52 PM)
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PsilocyBen17
Pin Pornographer


Registered: 10/20/13
Posts: 3,751
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: Yerow]
#23394851 - 06/29/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why do so many hate on agar. Spores are no way to grow anything. Spores should always be put on agar before inoculating...
People who say "agar is not for me" as if its some sort of fashion trend really don't understand sterile technique.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: Yerow]
#23394857 - 06/29/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yerow said:
Quote:
Marty Mycfly said:
Quote:
Yerow said: Think he is talking about using Liquid cultures which is fine. I wouldnt do it from spores though, you should make your LC's from agar 
Really you should get a book on cultivating gourmet mushrooms, or do a lot more research before doing anything else. Like Drake said, you are way better off purchasing spawn, when you go to making your own spawn for your commercial production you want to know EXACTLY what you are doing, and that wont involve spores, or LC, or at least it shouldn't.
Why would you say that? Been growing gourmets the past year or so and i feel like i got a pretty good grip on it. LC's LI's and such are very common, also for gourmet growers.. I do grain master jars with agar to larger bags with grains, which i would think is the most prefered method. Unless sure you want to buy your spawn That being said, still, LC's are fine if started from agar imo.
He could easily make a LC or LI, use it for a few master jars and go that route. 
Also, wont involve spores or LC? If there is no spores/agar work involved how in the hell should he make his own spawn then 
I know LI and LC work fine, but for someone wanting to start a commercial operation I think the safe route is best to start, go from there if you are unhappy. But honestly I think agar to grain jars to bags is a lot easier and less work than making LC's and LI's. And like you are saying, making LC's or LI's for a few masters and going from there is fine too, but I don't think that's what he was talking about. He seems to be talking about inoculating grain with spores and taking them straight into straw, which is also fine and fun, but a not a commercial endeavor.
Edited by Marty Mycfly (06/29/16 04:43 PM)
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Quote:
PsilocyBen17 said: Why do so many hate on agar. Spores are no way to grow anything. Spores should always be put on agar before inoculating...
People who say "agar is not for me" as if its some sort of fashion trend really don't understand sterile technique.
I think it's because they don't have a flow hood and it's a pain in the ass in an SAB, but I did for years, and anyone with a passion for mycology, mushrooms and learning would as well. LC and spore syringes I feel started as a trend for pumping out cubes as fast as possible. Although I am sure the Eberbach blenders and all of that stuff has it's place somewhere, Stamets makes LI in his books, but never really talks about if uses that much.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Shroom4Profit..
Starting a commercial gourmet operation.Any experts around? No offense novices, but I don't have time to experiment.
Did you try Google..?
Sometimes you might get lucky and find some expert with lots of knowledge...
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moonlightmushrooms
farmur

Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 214
Loc: canada
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: micelio]
#23400327 - 07/01/16 08:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is one weird thread, is someone trolling with an Alt?
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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I imagine it's an alt not wishing to associate a legitimate business startup with their entheogenic antics.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: weetsie]
#23449649 - 07/17/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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ok so I took the advice given and did lots of reading.... I apologize for anyone I may have been rude to. My terminology was really off and I am sure that made my questions seem pretty incoherent. Sorry for that. So let me try to start this over. Yes I want to start a commercial mush farm. I am a novice with very little experience. I have spent over 200 hrs. now reading and taking in information as was suggested. I read GGMM from stamets and TMC childers and stamets. I have read many threads as well. I have a better understanding on terminology I may still get it mixed up from time to time. I was talking about LS syringes. Enough people have shared marty's opinion so sadly I am going to build a flow hood and get into agar work. I am nervous and excited about this process. I have only studied clean technique and not practiced it. That is why I wanted to avoid agar. 1. It's very time consuming. 2. for someone with A.D.D. it's easy to get distracted and screw up when your mind is racing. 3. I have gotten many different opinions on space and how I should use it divide it. I want a small lab area for my flow hood and inoculations of mycobags or jars. I need a fruiting room and inncubation room. My big question is how should I divide this space? I am correct in saying though there is a man who lives less than 100 miles from me who is using LS syringes to inoculate his grain jars and is growing oysters commercially. He is on you tube and he's making pretty decent money out of a pretty small operation, about half the size of the one I am trying to build. That being said I am going to try agar. Clean technique scares the crap out of me though, but I guess I am going to have to get comfortable with it and practice. Any suggestions on how to practice my technique for clean work? Also, for pouring or no pour technique for agar can anyone share an opinion?
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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My advice is view RR videos (Roger Rabbit)
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/
One part agar with two part patience ....
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: micelio]
#23449861 - 07/17/16 01:10 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Practice practice practice. Only difference between the master and novice is the master has failed more times than the novice has tried. Still not sure what you mean by LS but if you want to make your own spawn then a flowhood and agar are essential. You know you're gonna have to invest a lot of time and money before you get any back right? Like thousands and months or years of mostly unpaid labor.
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: micelio]
#23449871 - 07/17/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you for the suggestion, however I was planning on using straw logs not cakes.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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SpinScratch
Distrusted Cultivator



Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 826
Last seen: 30 days, 4 hours
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just dive right in bro... whats so scary about agar? Just pour some plates and put some cultures on it. If you fail, you fail. Big deal, learn from it and try again.
I know youre trying "start a mushroom farm" but start out small first. Buy an Oyster LC, put a few drops on agar, put the rest of it on grain, and make a couple oyster logs and see how it goes. Take what youve learned from that experience and do a bigger grow next time with the agar you had inoculated... repeat.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Shroom4Profit said: Thank you for the suggestion, however I was planning on using straw logs not cakes.
i know when starting out you'll meet a lot of people that think you're not a "real" mushroom farmer if you don't make your own spawn. it's kind of true that if you're growing exotic stuff like pinks you'll need to do that since spawn from aloha is quite expensive.
but the cost of blue oyster spawn from amycel is like a $1 per pound. and it's always good so you won't have to spend on a lab to do straw logs. i would find the closest distributor near you and buy a box to do some test batches with. you do have to call to order and mail a check.
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: drake89]
#23450316 - 07/17/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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LS Liquid Sporess. Or so I have been told... and yes drake I have heard that so that's why I changed my mind. I wasn't necessarily wanting to get into agar. And yes I know it takes a while to turn a profit and get ahead I am prepared for that. I have more to learn I guess I have to agree with spin. Only way I am going to learn is hands on. I was going to start out running just one bale of hay see what it produces and go from there...
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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SpinScratch
Distrusted Cultivator



Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 826
Last seen: 30 days, 4 hours
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no... LC = liquid culture. Forget about spores.
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Should I do agar and LC just so I have a master or isolate for lack of a better word backup in case of contamination?
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: weetsie]
#23450960 - 07/17/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonlightmushrooms said: This is one weird thread, is someone trolling with an Alt?
I imagine it's an alt not wishing to associate a legitimate business startup with their entheogenic antics. 
I assure you I am no alt or troll and I don't have a business to be associated with yet. I have already told everyone this is a start up not a running business. I haven't thought of a name for it yet, I am kicking around a few and trying to pick one. I love how people say "We will share info, we will help if we can, we are here to advise people then when someone earnestly comes looking for this help/advice they get accused of wrong doing. Let me assure you I am as ethical as they come. I read the info that was suggested to me. and I started asking the questions as well I am able to with the best of intentions. I even apologized and tried to start fresh... and I started asking the questions as well I am able to with the best of intentions. I'm not mad and hopefully none of you are either. Please don't make accusations against my character such as troll or alt...
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weetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom
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It was a tongue is cheek comment, sorry if that didn't come across like that and I certainly wasn't accusing you of doing anything unethical.
-------------------- Active grow logs: Oysters on Straw Pellets Trade list
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: weetsie]
#23451961 - 07/18/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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NP Weetsie. I just wanted to let everyone know I am 100% for real. After reading the materials I did and rereading this thread I would probably make fun of me too lol. So thanks to anyone still willing to offer advice and for giving me a second chance it is much appreciated. I know I'm rolling the dice here and believe me there are reasons for it, I won't go into details but I am willing to work as hard and as many hours as necessary to get this venture started and working as well I can make it work. Thanks to all for the advice.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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anthiawe
friendly stranger


Registered: 05/18/16
Posts: 652
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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-------------------- TEK compendium
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Shroom4Profit
Stranger

Registered: 06/27/16
Posts: 13
Loc: mid west usa
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Oysters Commercial [Re: anthiawe]
#23481749 - 07/27/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah drake99 I was trying to avoid agar work, but through reading and asking questions I have learned it's pretty much unavoidable. I have also been advised to try some lc storage. I am thinking of trying cornstalks, cobs, and shucks instead of straw as my substrate. I might try a little of both at first see which one my myc and mush prefer and time to cultivate. Lots of studying/practicing to do.
-------------------- Looking for commercial gourmet mushroom growers to talk with. Thanks.
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Start off with pasteruized straw. Heat or lime pasteruized.
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