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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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B+ Projects: Cake, Tray, Bulk block in SGFC
#23393070 - 06/29/16 05:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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First time user of the forums, been reading up on things for a couple months now.
This thread is intended as a feedback forum and kind of a log for a project that swim is trying out.
Swim has a B+ and a Pan Sandose syringe and has inoculated 3 half pint jars of rye with the Pan (trying it out mostly), 2 half pint jars rye, 1 quart jar rye, 3 half pint jars of WBS/Vermiculite with B+, plus swim has started an LC with the B+ to which there is already a small growth of mycelium (very small, but within 24 hours) which at least tells them it's A-OK.
Sterile tek was done pretty well. All precautions were taken. Most work was done in a glove box, and anything transferred from outside to inside the box were given a healthy H202 bath first, including the jars themselves. No spawn was subjected to any of things, only surfaces, tools, gloves, and the inside of the glovebox itself prior to innoc. Needles on both strains were flame sterilized prior to transferring inside the glove box without any h202 bath to avoid killing spores. Each jar, after being properly filled and sealed inside the glove box were injected in a quick and fluid manner, and bandaids were used to seal the inoc holes due to their sterility. Each jar was then taken out of the glovebox and placed into the incubator that maintains a near constant 80-82 degrees F ambient air temp, which to my guess puts the internal temps at or near 86 F.
It has been 3 days for all jars except the LC (24 hours), swim says none of the jars show any signs of growth (which he is not too worried as he used a spore solution on these jars and knows it takes a bit longer for them) except for a tiny few mm sized spot of germination inside the LC jar which he is happy about, as he plans to use the LC if there are any issues with colonizing, or if there are issues with any dryness of any B+ rye jars.
So far everything looks good, it's just waiting! I shall give periodic updates of swims project, and be around for tek guidance should there be any my way. Thx!
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
Edited by Mushierage (07/15/16 10:12 AM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23393081 - 06/29/16 05:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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First best thing to do is drop the swim, we kinda prefer to float around these parts of the interwebs.
"swim" really shouldn't be happy about his LC, if I was in "swim's" shoes I would be shitting bricks after inoculating an LC with spores.
Trash the incubator, 80F is a ridiculously high temperature, which is only inviting thermiphilic bacteria to crash the party. The best incubating temperature would be 70F, giving you a core of ~75F with quart jars. Any more and you would be doing more harm than good. If temps do drop below 70F at room temp, it is just as good. I have grown shrooms at 60F, slows down a bit at that point but it will still fruit well.
H202 is only used on cobweb contaminations, stick to alcohol for everything else.
Goodluck, swim.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Perhaps i should clarify a few things. The LC was a solution made to be inoculated. so that it can be used to then inoculate other jars with it. Perhaps I am not understanding something. Why shitting bricks after 24 hours of inoculation? The growth is not even 1-2 mms wide, and looks to be coming from some of the spores that had already germinated while in the syringe itself. Anyway...
70f to me seems a bit cold. Never had anything want to take hold in that temp, but I suppose trying it out wont hurt anything. "Trashing" my incubator seems like a silly thing to do, considering if I need to change temperature, I can adjust the heat source down. At the very least, it keeps all my jars consolidated, in the dark, and our of the way. Perhaps I will set it a bit lower, or even take out a few jars to just sit on a shelf to test out, as my home most often is around 70-73 F ambient air. Seen many times teks stating cooler temps for colonizing, and light not really having any effect on colonization, so I might give it a try with a couple jars.
I have the means to test jars in different environments and with different strains as well, in the long run it's not going to kill me to lose a jar or three due to contams, though if possible I'd like to avoid that scenario.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23393125 - 06/29/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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As you wish. I kinda prefer not to follow the outdated shit myself.
LC should only ever be made with agar, that is solely the reason why I would be shitting bricks. Spores are never clean, you just gave those potential contams a media to grow on.
I urge you to read stuff that wasn't made in the stone age. Incubators,colonizing at 80F, no light during colonization, LCs with spores etc. are all pre-historic pieces of information that have been shown to be obselete and complete bullshit. Any grower worth his salt will colonize jars at room temperature on a shelf that gets ambient light, even when temps drop below 70F.
The only time I would use an incubator is if I had temps below 60F.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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I have actually never tried agar, and never even heard it being used in an LC. What do you just drop a piece of agar in LC, and if that's the case, wouldn't it just make sense to just drop pieces of agar into a jar and let it go.
I understand the concepts behind the 70-75 colonization. There seems to be a lot of benefits. There are also some cons. Just like there is colonizing at 80 F. I've seen where RR even stated somewhere that for mycelium, the risks start to outweigh the benefits at around 83 F internal temp. I just never wanted to try it that low consistently, and my jars never seemed to take that low. However, I fruit at room temp, and after colonization, the relative drop in temp seems to give a huge boost to pinning, which is another reason it incubates around 80.
I could, and would be willing to lower the temp of my incubator by a few degrees, but at below 70 I just start feeling like my jars will never take because they take so long to colonize.
Cheers, thanks for the tips.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23393165 - 06/29/16 06:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Please do explain the supposed "benefits" of colonizing jars at 80F.
Mycelium growth is linear between 75F and 81F, that means a jar with a 75F core will grow with the same speed a jar with a core of 81F will. Furthermore, there will be a steep drop in colonization speed once you go above 81F. You have your incubator set at 82F right? meaning that the core is somewhere in the 87F temp range. That means that you will actually have faster colonization if you colonize your jars at your current room temp of 72F.
Also, bacteria will have the easiest time growing at 80F+, while not so much at 75F. There are basically ZERO advantages to incubating jars at 80F.
Goodluck on your grows, seems like you're gonna need it.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Update:
After testing conditions of 70-75 degrees, I can say with utmost certainly that jars colonized quicker in these conditions, with healthier looking rhizomorphic Myc. None of the Pan germinated, so I think maybe they were bad spores, but the B+ is doing amazingly well, well enough to move all the jars into the aforementioned conditions. They are all still in the incubator, but it's essentially been turned off and maintains a constant near 70-75.
The liquid culture did great, well enough to inoculate a "test jar" with it. The jar colonized amazingly fast, so I went ahead and put it into the SGFC. It's been in there for two days and already I am seeing signs of some minor primordial formings.
I started four more jars with the rest of the B+ spore solution and immediately put them into the colonization tub, all the new jars are at about 40-60% colonization. One jar finished colonizing and I crumbled into a 50/40/10 bulk bag about 3 days ago which is already about 40% colonized. I plan on fruiting that one right in the bag when it's finished. One jar contaminated (wbs) with bacillus. I just tossed the entire jar without opening, and it was one that was in 80 degree conditions. No others have contaminated.
I'm dispelling the myth about 80+ degree colonization conditions right now. It doesn't work as well in pretty much all cases I've tested out. Thanks for the tips.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23437519 - 07/13/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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My Sandose didn't do shit either. Welcome to the club :p
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Snazz]
#23437565 - 07/13/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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My sandoze took about a week to colonize but the mycelium is wierd AF. Not that thin pan growth I'm getting with my jamiacan, it's thick and white, kind of like a mat.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Getting there. Not sure if I wanna fruit in the bag after its done completely colonizing and consolidating. I could cut away the bag, dunk it for 16 hrs or so, and pop it in the SGFC and fruit as a bulk block. I figure the more surface area exposed to FAE the better. Any opinions on this?

Got another bag ready and waiting to spawn to once this one is done.

Also, the plant in the back is strawberry cough. Can't wait
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23443486 - 07/15/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23476998 - 07/25/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, another update.
I ended up fully colonizing 3 half pint cakes, 2 - 2lb bulk blocks, and a 3 inch deep tray. Fruiting temp is a little lower than colonization, about 68-72 degrees depending on the time of day.
Been running a 12/12 lighting schedule with a 5000k, and misting and fanning 2-3x a day, making specially careful not to overmist by pooling or reduce the humidity too much by opening the chamber too often.
Results seem to be paying off, because the 3 cakes and the 1 bulk block are now pinning. I am anticipating within a day or two for them to take off and explode with pins (I hope).
The other block is a late bloomer and only just came out of a 24hr soak in the fridge 2 days ago, so I am not surprised it is not yet pinning, however there are knots forming on the top which I am anticipating. The tray was just cased, so I doubt it'll do anything for another week probably.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23477050 - 07/25/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's a pic of a fat pin on one of the bulk blocks

And some Pete moss I recovered today whilst my walk in the woods that I am growing in a terrarium for use in future grows.

Supalemonhaze, your tips were of great value to me. I appreciate the info you gave.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: B+ & P.Sandose Rye/wbs project [Re: Mushierage]
#23477503 - 07/26/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker


Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Woke up this morning and counted 27 pins on the one block, and the 3 cakes, and theres a shitton more knots so it's definitely not the last of them. The other block and the tray haven't started yet, but when they do, I'm guessing they will be magnificent since they were done in basically the same manner and conditions.
I've got to say, doing myco bags and then fruiting as a bulk block in a built to spec SGFC seems to be the way to go. I've had awesome results with it.
Here are some pics of the better looking pins to brighten up the day.


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