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Raven44
Entry not permitted to muggles



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 1,970
Loc: My sovereign reality bubble
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spawn ratio/ biological efficiency
#23392298 - 06/28/16 09:11 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Been plugging away awhile now..
I've been on this site since (EDIT: 07' lol not 97') but forgot my account info from back then lol..
Anyways, I've been rocking this ksss lately. Cloned a nice fruit and got a mediocre clone going which I'm not happy with lol.. that's beside the point
I was digging through old posts, can't remember why atm..
I saw cronicrs old post saying how he was going w a 1:8 ratio w ksss and not seeing any mutants or blobs.. can't remember if he said mutants or blobs but he said one or the other..
Soooo, it dawned on me.. I've heard people saying they were "pushing the spawn ratio" before also in posts. I wasn't sure what this meant
I think it clicked tho, looking for confirmation or enlightenment
With ksss, one needs to go lower with the spawn ratio according to cronicrs input. Correct?
Well, what about the varieties that u can go with a 1:1 ratio?? Are these ur b pluses ect? Ur varietys that are known to produce nice canopies?
If ur variety doesn't preform well with high spawn ratios, that would make its biological efficiency lower right?
I suppose not really, it would all depend on end dry weight..
Just trying to fully comprehend this so I can expand my knowledge
I'm little confused still, not sure if needing to use 1:8 ratio means yeilds r lower or not...
Edited by Raven44 (06/29/16 08:09 PM)
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Raven44]
#23392358 - 06/28/16 09:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't go past 1:3 anymore. But increased or higher spawn:sub ratios will obviously take longer to colonize, risks of stalling, higher contam rates bc it takes longer for the sub to colonize, ect. Aside from that higher sub ratios can give you bigger yields at times bc there's a lot more nutrients and moisture to absorb.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23392373 - 06/28/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is only "beneficial" when working with varieties that grow mutants, like the PE varieties and KSSS. I wouldn't do a 1:8 ratio though, if you spawn isn't impeccable, you are going to have trouble.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Raven44]
#23392380 - 06/28/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Doing my own tests with 3 tubs. Although it's MS to petri so genetics will skew the results.
Using the same supplemented coir in all 3
6 pints APE to 99L mono (1:3 I think)
5 pints PE to 66L mono x2
All 3.5" sub. Likely too many variables. Funny thing is, that APE tub might hit 100% by tmrw night (7d)
All my PESA bags were at least 1:8 spawn and did very well considering. QP from 4 lasagna trays that were a pint each
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Snazz]
#23392410 - 06/28/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whew. I'd probably have better luck with the lottery than a 1:8. That's one hell of a dice roll, but some pull it off with ease!
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23392443 - 06/28/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mycobags make it easy. Clean pint of spawn to 3-4L of pasteurized poo/verm and perlite to fluff. Messed around with Stevia and oil additives
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Snazz]
#23392472 - 06/28/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Snazz said: and perlite to fluff.
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: LocN9ne]
#23392503 - 06/28/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Makes poo prep easy. No clumping or shit 
Every wonder why they always add it to potting soil?
My method is usually: Mix aged steer with 5% perlite fold in soaked vermiculite. 1:1 or 2:1 Had better flushes from the latter obviously
Edited by Snazz (06/28/16 10:28 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Snazz]
#23392673 - 06/28/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I dislike the notion of perlite in any substrate because it contains no nutes and holds not water.
Speaking of water, the main point behind spawning to bulk is to provide a reservoir of water. Spawning at too high of a ratio will result in too little water to support large pinset or bug fruits. 1:1.5 is the highest I would spawn at, tho I do like 1:2 for larger substrates.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23392698 - 06/28/16 11:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I dislike the notion of perlite in any substrate because it contains no nutes and holds not water.
Speaking of water, the main point behind spawning to bulk is to provide a reservoir of water. Spawning at too high of a ratio will result in too little water to support large pinset or bug fruits. 1:1.5 is the highest I would spawn at, tho I do like 1:2 for larger substrates.
Yes exactly why I find minimonos optimal and a go to at 1:1-2, larger monotubs I would never go past 1:3. 1:8 is just asking for problems imo.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
Edited by CosmoKramer (06/28/16 11:50 PM)
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Raven44
Entry not permitted to muggles



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 1,970
Loc: My sovereign reality bubble
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23392710 - 06/28/16 11:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
CosmoKramer said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I dislike the notion of perlite in any substrate because it contains no nutes and holds not water.
Speaking of water, the main point behind spawning to bulk is to provide a reservoir of water. Spawning at too high of a ratio will result in too little water to support large pinset or bug fruits. 1:1.5 is the highest I would spawn at, tho I do like 1:2 for larger substrates.
Yes exactly why I find minimonos optimal and a go to at 1:1-2, larger monotubs I would never go past 1:3. 1:8 is just asking for problems imo.
I'm assuming minimonos have a sealed top so they lose less moisture or?? I've never liked into minis.. but why would ur larger mono have less water present? Why go lower on spawn ratio with larger monos?
I do get that upping the spawn ratio will increase yeilds.. but does this only work well with some strains?
Or are strains like PE and KSSS just prone to mutants at high spawn ratios? Or are most strains prone to mutate at too high of spawn ratios?
I may be just trying to confuse myself more so lol
Edited by Raven44 (06/28/16 11:53 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: CosmoKramer] 3
#23392741 - 06/29/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
CosmoKramer said: Yes exactly why I find minimonos optimal and a go to at 1:1-2, larger monotubs I would never go past 1:3. 1:8 is just asking for problems imo.
1:4 is good IMO. It takes like a couple extra days longer to colonize. You can definitely see the difference in density of a canopy between 1:2 and 1:4.
But 2 tubs at 1:4 will have more yield per qt than 1 tub at 1:2. If space is your issue, high spawn ratios ftw. If quantity of spawn is your issue, low spawn ratios are all g too.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Mad Season]
#23393440 - 06/29/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: 1:4 is good IMO. It takes like a couple extra days longer to colonize. You can definitely see the difference in density of a canopy between 1:2 and 1:4.
But 2 tubs at 1:4 will have more yield per qt than 1 tub at 1:2. If space is your issue, high spawn ratios ftw. If quantity of spawn is your issue, low spawn ratios are all g too.
Very well articulated
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Raven44
Entry not permitted to muggles



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 1,970
Loc: My sovereign reality bubble
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Snazz]
#23393467 - 06/29/16 08:58 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Agreed ^^^^
so it seems I was trying to confuse myself.
With strains like ksss and PE which r prone to mutants.. going with a lower spawn ratio doesn't mean that stain has a lower overall biological efficiency.
Biological efficiency is simply an expression of yeild based on YOUR particular growth parameters, spawn ratio, substrate moisture content and substrate choice ect.. Biological efficiency is NOT based on the strain/genetics like I was thinking. Seems like moisture content is the biggest variable when it comes to b.e.? Moisture content and spawn ratio..?
This had answered my questions I believe, thank you.
Raised another question also. When fruiting reishi and lions mane off of pure coco coir... would a spawn ratio of 1:1 inhibit reishi pinning? And what would a safe spawn ratio for lions mane be when fruiting them in bags with holes punctured for fae like a lil baby straw log but filled with coco.
First attempt I used pure coco, and 1:1 ratio I think. Reishi didn't pin (may have been inadequate co2 levels) and pins mane went trich.. I'll add vermiculite next time I think the lions mane moisture content was too high..
They colonized fully sat for few weeks then went south
Edited by Raven44 (06/29/16 08:59 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Raven44]
#23394041 - 06/29/16 12:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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BE is calculated from dry ingredients, water isn't included. wet mushrooms output divided by total dry weight added (grain,coir,verm,manure,everything) *100 to get it in percentages.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Mad Season]
#23394226 - 06/29/16 01:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said:
Quote:
CosmoKramer said: Yes exactly why I find minimonos optimal and a go to at 1:1-2, larger monotubs I would never go past 1:3. 1:8 is just asking for problems imo.
1:4 is good IMO. It takes like a couple extra days longer to colonize. You can definitely see the difference in density of a canopy between 1:2 and 1:4.
But 2 tubs at 1:4 will have more yield per qt than 1 tub at 1:2. If space is your issue, high spawn ratios ftw. If quantity of spawn is your issue, low spawn ratios are all g too.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Raven44
Entry not permitted to muggles



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 1,970
Loc: My sovereign reality bubble
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: cronicr]
#23394368 - 06/29/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, I know how to calculate biological efficiency..........
I don't remember asking how to do simple math
Edited by Raven44 (06/29/16 02:06 PM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: Raven44]
#23394379 - 06/29/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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just saw this and figured I'd help ya 
Quote:
Raven44 said: Biological efficiency is simply an expression of yeild based on YOUR particular growth parameters, spawn ratio, substrate moisture content and substrate choice ect.. Biological efficiency is NOT based on the strain/genetics like I was thinking. Seems like moisture content is the biggest variable when it comes to b.e.? Moisture content and spawn ratio..?
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CosmoKramer
The Assman

Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: cronicr]
#23394439 - 06/29/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Mad Season said:
Quote:
CosmoKramer said: Yes exactly why I find minimonos optimal and a go to at 1:1-2, larger monotubs I would never go past 1:3. 1:8 is just asking for problems imo.
1:4 is good IMO. It takes like a couple extra days longer to colonize. You can definitely see the difference in density of a canopy between 1:2 and 1:4.
But 2 tubs at 1:4 will have more yield per qt than 1 tub at 1:2. If space is your issue, high spawn ratios ftw. If quantity of spawn is your issue, low spawn ratios are all g too.

In the end what works best for one, won't work for another. Spawn ratios are like opinions and assholes...everyone has one. There's a lot of those on here.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: spawn ratio/ biological efficiency [Re: CosmoKramer] 1
#23394443 - 06/29/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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yep whatever works for your situation, mad season is correct though
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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