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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Population
#23392202 - 06/28/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arguably the greatest transfer of wealth in human history occurred when the Plague swept through Europe and killed a third of its population. Lands were consolidated, allowing for a greater standard of living, not only for the owners but also for those who worked for them. This event was the single greatest contributor to the Renaissance and gave rise to Europe's eventual domination of the world.
--We're Breeding Ourselves to Death: How Overpopulation Will Destroy Civilization by Dr. Lydell Cooper, Raptor Press, 1977
I just wanted to share this to see what people's reactions to it might be. The essence of the idea is summarized in the title of the book, mentioned above, from which the quotation comes. Do you feel that a high population is a crisis, a major problem, no big deal, or a good thing? I find terribly interesting the inference that the Renaissance may not have happened were it not for the Bubonic Plague's devastating Europe at the end of the Middle Ages.
What do you think?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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The article is wrong . The plagues happened a few time wherever the population of Europe was 85 million or more after 1225 ad. 60 million before thst era and farming style changed. With increased food technology will take a long time before we start to get sick and starve. But yes destroying a percent of the population is a proven way to increase the standard of living. Example is Hitler grow his economy and was praised for getting rid of some population to empowering the rest. Then with that empowering mindset started a war which is why we currently have as much technology as we have.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Population [Re: tump]
#23392727 - 06/29/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the OP's quote forgets a number of other factors, in the sense that we have no way to quantify these other factors. The "Dark Ages" or "Middle Ages" or whatever you want to call the period before the renaissance was not known for being completely economically and scientifically backward, it is known for us not having many surviving texts describing the time period. The Renaissance was not a result of human progression, so much as human record of progression.
Before that, we simply didn't know what happened. I think the world today may be in a sort of "dark age" in the sense that we *know* current storage isn't permanent (try your old VHS tapes...seem a little faded?), but at the same time we press on developing newer, and even less permanent, forms of storage (flash drives...) that will not be able to hold records as well as books.
I read an interesting article earlier today, which used logarithmic regression to predict the population of the future. according to this logarithmic regression, which is commonly introduced as a good way to explain populations of different species, we should max out in population around 2300 assuming the carrying capacity of the Earth, and slowly decline to a reasonable limit in the years after.
The economic effects have yet to be studied, as we have never seen an economy so connected and complicated in our wildest dreams so far. It makes for some interesting living.
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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Re: Population [Re: Kryptos]
#23392864 - 06/29/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe to population will stable it self off long before 2300 ad. Like the United state's if you have a high standard of living then you don't want to have children and in fact without immigration to USA our population would have been 27% smaller then its peak in 1981. You can start to see this decline in growth in china. If we can produce 1 million lbs of food form three acres of land then we should never be able to over population ourselfs.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Population [Re: tump]
#23393003 - 06/29/16 03:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe we are in dire need of a global catastrophe.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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The catastrophe is building in our mind/minds.
The psyche of man is causing all this shit. All of it.
Overpopulation, probably a direct consequence of sexual repression by the church/churchs.
We are not fulfilled by our sex, because we are not fully human, or, more accurately, fully divine. We are insensitive, numb. The world is a total madhouse.
So our psyche is trying to bring our attention to it, through some other back alley crevice of flow of information and ideas.
I think, yeah, a lot of us are going awwwwaaaayyyy 
Africa... I'm so worried how that's going to turn out.
We all go one of two ways from here...
AND NO ONE EVEN KNOWS WHAT THIS IS
Thrilling situation, really.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I believe we are in dire need of a global catastrophe.
The only thing that seems to precipitate real change is a crisis.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I believe we are in dire need of a global catastrophe.
The only thing that seems to precipitate real change is a crisis.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Remember the scientist dude in '12 Monkeys' who sets free the virus that Bruce Willis is tryna stop? Sometimes I feel like he really was doing the most noble thing for mother nature...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Overbreeding happens in every species when there is an abundance of food and/or minimal predation, and populations decline once the food sources are not readily available or predator populations are maximal.
This ebb and flow occurs all the time in nature. Our technology has extended the cycle for modern humans and the inevitable correction will be painful to many, but will hardly be the end of civilization.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Stop pointing out that my idea of setting off a deadly virus that kills only humans is unnecessary. You're killing my vibe man!!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Only you and the sheep will be left.

"And do you, JSB, take Lammie as your lawfully wedded wife..."
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Yeah I'd fuck that.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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You will feel right at home Down Under.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Hopefully the global catastrophe occurs when I'm firmly settled there (reckon about 5 years from now..). I think they run about 4-500 cattle & ~1000 sheep at any one time. When the food supply runs out in the cities I'll be dining on fine steaks and lamb chops!!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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I think I already saved Australia.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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By leaving?
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Where you BTD?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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VIC
But it don't look like VIC no more.
Look like Wonda land.
 
So I guess I did leave.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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I'll be in the tablelands of northern NSW soon. Unspoiled, untouched, remote. I cannot wait.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
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Just try not to think about all the Aborigines that had to be murdered/driven off their land in order for it to become available.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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