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OfflineCroixResearch
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Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 4
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
New to P. Cyanescens
    #23391989 - 06/28/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Just have a few questions. If I bought a kit,with pre-made substrate jars,would that function for pans? I've heard they don't grow large without manure, so can I remove the pre-made substrate and mix it with manure, or is this not recommended? Should I just stick to cubes with this setup? Anything else I should know about pans?


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InvisibleAdden
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Posts: 39,201
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: CroixResearch]
    #23392142 - 06/28/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you're doing a kit, don't run pans.

Also don't use kits.

You can buy spores for microscopy from shroomery sponsors and make your own jars for pennies on the dollar compared to the kit. The amount you spend on the kit is plenty enough money to get some spore syringes and a dozen jars, and a decent tote for a sgfc.


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OfflineCroixResearch
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Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Adden]
    #23392305 - 06/28/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks. I really wanted to try pans but I'll just go with cubes. I'll do some research as to what to do for pans.


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OfflineOrgasmatron
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Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 30
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: CroixResearch]
    #23393299 - 06/29/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, you can use a kit and then spawn it into pasteurized aged horse poo (before pasteurizing it must be dry and not smell like shit) to grow Panaeolus. Yields will be very low but it works. Check the Pan cultivation threads to make the most of it.


Edited by Orgasmatron (06/29/16 07:38 AM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Orgasmatron]
    #23393327 - 06/29/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

pre-sterilized substrate jars come already contamed in your mail box so no, thats not a good way to grow any species of mushrooms.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
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Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: spacechildo]
    #23393337 - 06/29/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
pre-sterilized substrate jars come already contamed in your mail box so no, thats not a good way to grow any species of mushrooms.




A little dramatic but :whathesaid: basically.

You can even buy a pan syringe and make shit-cakes instead of your normal BRF. You can easily find a tek for this if you use the search function.


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23393456 - 06/29/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Pans go fine on grains.  Poo is for bulk substrate typically.  You will have tons of time before you hit that stage from spore.


Filter patch bags work well for pasteurized bulk sub. Less likely to contam.  Tgen fruit at 100%  (or search for poo cakes on this site)  modded PF Tek


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OfflineCroixResearch
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Snazz]
    #23396562 - 06/30/16 06:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you all for the replies. I have already made plans to use a different syringe (cubes) for the kit. I'm going to be making shit cakes for my pans and see how they do.not too stressed about it. Also idk how contamed my jars are if they're individually sealed and wrapped? At any rate I know what my options are and I'll be researching more about different teks. This is all part of a great learning experience for me. We all start somewhere and one day soon I hope to be pretty good at this.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: CroixResearch]
    #23396971 - 06/30/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

What he means is that jars are never really sterile. You don't know how long they have been sitting on the vendor's shelf after sterilization and with every passing day, the endospores that survived the sterilization process are recovering. Chances are that you will still get shrooms but things could obviously be better if you do it all yourself correctly. Not to mention cheaper.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23397020 - 06/30/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

"substrate jars" could mean pf-tek jars too, I've seen some vendors ship them out with the dry verm barrier obviously all fucked up. some use grain jar lids but buying a cpl spoonfulls of brf and a cup of verm pre-mixed sounds uneccessary to me. everyone has a pot with a fitting lid.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: spacechildo] * 1
    #23397262 - 06/30/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Buying pre-made PF tek jars is too fucking ridiculous. It's as easy as making pancakes and you need about the same amount of equipment as well.


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OfflineOrgasmatron
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Registered: 06/14/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: spacechildo]
    #23400520 - 07/01/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
pre-sterilized substrate jars come already contamed in your mail box so no, thats not a good way to grow any species of mushrooms.




Nonsense.
Pre-sterlized substrates have worked fine for me many times. Contamination rate was as low as when I made the stuff myself, i.e. low. I don't know about the US but not all vendors are scumbags selling badly prepared stuff.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Orgasmatron]
    #23400537 - 07/01/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

no, but all vendors have to rely on shipping :super:
Just because you cant see the full picture yet doesnt make their stuff any less contamed..


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Orgasmatron]
    #23400551 - 07/01/16 09:54 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If they are autoclaved perhaps, but our usual 'sterilization' is 99.whatever %


Which means time is not on your side in the usual circumstances.


I don't find prep times very long and I prefer to experiment a bit.  To each his own


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Snazz]
    #23400837 - 07/01/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
no, but all vendors have to rely on shipping :super:
Just because you cant see the full picture yet doesnt make their stuff any less contamed..




:whathesaid:

A vendor doesn't have to be a scumbag, no one will send a jar of contaminated spawn on purpose. Bacteria is mostly invisible anyway in small amounts, the only way to tell it's there is if you either have signs of it in during your spawn/fruit run or if your harvest is particularly shitty.

honestly, I don't blame the vendors for trying to make a buck, it's the buyer who's being an idiot for not realizing that bacteria can never be fully eliminated from our spawn, regardless of how long you sterilize for. Not to mention the fact that if you save the money you would spend from a couple of buys of pre-made grains, you would have enough money for a 22qt mirro or a 16q presto.

I would normally agree that some things are a matter of preference but this is something that is done solely due to stupidity and lack of forethought.

Quote:

Snazz said:
If they are autoclaved perhaps, but our usual 'sterilization' is 99.whatever %


Which means time is not on your side in the usual circumstances.


I don't find prep times very long and I prefer to experiment a bit.  To each his own




I have seen it being said that to fully sterilize grains, one would need to use so much pressure and/or time that the grains would end up completely burst and messy. Not sure if it's true or not but thermophilic bacteria is quite resiliant.


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Invisiblemupetmower
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23401106 - 07/01/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

seriously.. no one should ever recommend someone to buy pre-made substrate jars. I did exactly twice. the first time, i got 6/6 no contam. the second time i got 8/12 contam'd. verm layer was shifted on both purchases, and who knows how long they sat before getting shipped. the site of course says they are made the day they are ordered, but let's be real. and even if this were true, there is still the shipping process, which is out of everyones hands. and we all know how terribly shipping companies treat packages.

it's really just a matter of luck with them.

not to mention, its incredibly expensive. you can buy a PC and make double the jars for the same price as 12 of those pre-made ones. or, since it's pf tek, you could even forgo the PC for a bit and steam sterilize, although i would still recommend getting a PC, if you intend to stay with this hobby for any length of time.

Also, as said already, they are SOOO easy to make yourself.

So, considering all of those things, why would you EVER buy them? i understand if you didnt have this knowledge to begin with. i didnt either at first. but after knowing this, why would you ever do it, or worse, suggest it to someone else? Thats just terrible advice, my friend.


Oh, and here, I will quote you supa, since that guy ignored you for correcting him in another thread hahs:

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Quote:

spacechildo said:
no, but all vendors have to rely on shipping :super:
Just because you cant see the full picture yet doesnt make their stuff any less contamed..




:whathesaid:

A vendor doesn't have to be a scumbag, no one will send a jar of contaminated spawn on purpose. Bacteria is mostly invisible anyway in small amounts, the only way to tell it's there is if you either have signs of it in during your spawn/fruit run or if your harvest is particularly shitty.

honestly, I don't blame the vendors for trying to make a buck, it's the buyer who's being an idiot for not realizing that bacteria can never be fully eliminated from our spawn, regardless of how long you sterilize for. Not to mention the fact that if you save the money you would spend from a couple of buys of pre-made grains, you would have enough money for a 22qt mirro or a 16q presto.

I would normally agree that some things are a matter of preference but this is something that is done solely due to stupidity and lack of forethought.

Quote:

Snazz said:
If they are autoclaved perhaps, but our usual 'sterilization' is 99.whatever %


Which means time is not on your side in the usual circumstances.


I don't find prep times very long and I prefer to experiment a bit.  To each his own




I have seen it being said that to fully sterilize grains, one would need to use so much pressure and/or time that the grains would end up completely burst and messy. Not sure if it's true or not but thermophilic bacteria is quite resiliant.





--------------------
-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.


Edited by mupetmower (07/01/16 01:04 PM)


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23401157 - 07/01/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

He can't read quotes done by people who are on ignore. So it has to be like this.

Quote:

The dude you ignored for giving correct advice said:
Quote:

spacechildo said:
no, but all vendors have to rely on shipping :super:
Just because you cant see the full picture yet doesnt make their stuff any less contamed..




:whathesaid:

A vendor doesn't have to be a scumbag, no one will send a jar of contaminated spawn on purpose. Bacteria is mostly invisible anyway in small amounts, the only way to tell it's there is if you either have signs of it in during your spawn/fruit run or if your harvest is particularly shitty.

honestly, I don't blame the vendors for trying to make a buck, it's the buyer who's being an idiot for not realizing that bacteria can never be fully eliminated from our spawn, regardless of how long you sterilize for. Not to mention the fact that if you save the money you would spend from a couple of buys of pre-made grains, you would have enough money for a 22qt mirro or a 16q presto.

I would normally agree that some things are a matter of preference but this is something that is done solely due to stupidity and lack of forethought.

Quote:

Snazz said:
If they are autoclaved perhaps, but our usual 'sterilization' is 99.whatever %


Which means time is not on your side in the usual circumstances.


I don't find prep times very long and I prefer to experiment a bit.  To each his own




I have seen it being said that to fully sterilize grains, one would need to use so much pressure and/or time that the grains would end up completely burst and messy. Not sure if it's true or not but thermophilic bacteria is quite resiliant.




Oh and stop ignoring people for correcting you orgasmatron. Or else you're going to keep saying garbage and not learn shit. But I guess some people want to buy everything from others, and not do the work themselves.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Mad Season]
    #23402819 - 07/02/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

He removed me from ignore, maybe he's finally ready to listen to reason.


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OfflineOrgasmatron
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Registered: 06/14/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23403054 - 07/02/16 04:20 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

There is some confusion: I'm not recommending anything to anyone, just comparing notes. The only thing I really came here to learn is when is the best time to put cased bulk subs into fruiting conditions and I haven't seen any consensus on that. All the ancient info still floating around doesn't help either.

Pre-sterilised BRF substrates work fine because the rice is powdered so there is a good chance that there won't be any lingering endospores. Shipping takes a couple of days around here so it's not likely to be a problem even for grains if they're done correctly.

Supalemon, I put you on ignore because I didn't like your tone, which I see a lot online. Some people who have been around on a site for a while tend to adopt this atittude of talking down to new members and I don't care for it. Your info is good but you don't have much to say that I can't get from others here (as most people are doing the exact same things, (even using the exact same dehydrator!) and I only removed you from ignore 'cause I wanted to double-check that, to give you the benefit of the doubt so to speak. I'm a big Haze fan myself!


I use whatever is easiest and takes less space and hassle... money is not an issue for me.  I don't care about maximizing yields, I just want to grow some mushrooms without having to do sterile technique because that's what's suitable for me. I've had good success with spore syringes and pre-made and even pre-inoculated substrates spawned into bulk, for the easiest way to grow ... and it works, that's all I'm saying. Going full DIY is just not necessary. I'm happy to pay someone else with the proper setup to do the sterilising ... even if I was doing this to make a few bucks it would still be worth it given what cubensis sells for around here. Yes, if I wanted to scale it up into an ongoing bulk operation I would have to get a PC and a flowhood and start using cloned mycelium from agar plates and so on, but I wouldn't even know what to do with pounds and pounds of mushrooms. A few dry ounces per year is plenty for me and I don't need to get into full DIY for that, nor do I have the time for a continuous year-round grow.

tl;dr:Being able to buy spore syringes and pre-sterilised substrate makes the whole thing possible to me. If those weren't available I simply wouldn't be able to grow any mushrooms.

Then there's the "don't buy those things, buy prints from our sponsored vendors" advice that I've seen on this site. . . ok. I hope you can see how that looks.


Edited by Orgasmatron (07/02/16 04:21 AM)


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: New to P. Cyanescens [Re: Orgasmatron]
    #23403137 - 07/02/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

O.o but I mean.. agar is like easy as balls. Ik a 5 year old can do it since they can make jello. 2% agar 2% nutes. Done. Like as easy as making LC.

Still air box requires a box, a stove, and a coffee can. I don't have a flow hood and I'm pretty big into agar.

Grains are cheap af. Oats can be straight up boiled to hydration. Only thing that costs some money brand new is the PC, which seriously should be the first purchase for every grower.

But of course a person who found out how to diy and make it hella easy is going to be like why is it hard? It's like way easy.

I grow only ounces at a time too lately. Still can't imagine starting any other way.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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