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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23402517 - 07/01/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Let me guess, you think Bush was some sort of free market capitalist? News flash Einstein, republican does NOT equal "free market capitalist"

The ones who opposed the bailouts, how do you describe them? I suppose they are just ignorant rubes, not smart enough to see how smart the elitist big govt ruling class are, right?



I never referred to Bush, and the ones that opposed the bailouts are the ones that said 'let the economy fail'.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
As for the drop in the Pound, when arguing progressive policies, progs never seem to care what it's Gonna cost the citizens, now all the sudden they care? How sweet :whatever:



Most of my posts are in support of the middle class.  Quit making things up, Mr Straw Man King, it's really getting old.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
    #23402535 - 07/01/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Of course banks made money BEFORE the mortgage crisis, that's NOT the point, they knew that people could never make the payments once the terms of payment changed, that means default.



It's exactly the point.  The oil companies in your example weren't guaranteed to make money; that's why they didn't "constantly do risky exploration all over the world in hopes of hitting the mother lode of oil".  The banks selling risky mortgages were guaranteed to make money because they resold their mortgages to offload the risk they took on.

Quote:

qman said:
"Lehman Brothers"

Was a choice to let it go, the other banks were in no different of a situation. Why do you buy everything the people at the top told you about the "crisis"?



The economy started to collapse after the fall the Lehman Brothers.  Bear Stearns and AIG were even bigger, and those would have had a much greater impact on the economy.

Quote:

qman said:
I should have said MANY small and medium size banks did NOT engage in risky lending practices, you are exactly right in that many did fail.



And a good number of big banks didn't engage in risky behavior either.  The point is that most didn't care about the risks of their behavior as long as they were guaranteed to make short term profits.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23402541 - 07/01/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
It's funny that the govt didn't bail out Trump when his businesses tan into trouble, I guess they didn't care about all his contractors, but the big banks execs... BAIL OUT!



Companies that weren't "too big to fail" weren't bailed out.  Government needs to prevent companies from becoming too big to fail in the first place.  That's one of the things that Dodd Frank was intended to help do.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
    #23402566 - 07/01/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
bring back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Legislation.



I agree.  :thumbup:

Quote:

qman said:
These elite try to scare the shit out of people like Fal so they get "too big too fail" status. Guess what?  Bond defaults, insolvency and bankruptcy are all parts of capitalism!!!  It's not a economic collapse when it happens.



So the first Great Depression wasn't an economic collapse?  The recovery happened on its own without the Government spending ridiculous amounts of money to restimulate the economy?

Quote:

qman said:
They want people to believe in the crony capitalism that keeps them in power, I refuse to support that nonsense.



I hate crony capitalism as much as anyone.  That's why I'm calling for Government regulations to prevent the need for any future Government bailout.  You may think Great Depressions are just a natural part of capitalism, but they are tremendously devastating, and Government help is needed to kick start the economy during a depression.  History provides very clear evidence of this.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23402570 - 07/01/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Stop derailing this thread with nonsensical bullshit please.

Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren being a cunt (yes, a cunt), for (Refer to video in OP).




Didn't mean to derail, but with that being said, isn't Warren a big critic of the banks?  What's her solution?  Status quo!!





Her solution is to break them up. It's the correct solution. Hillary does not agree with her, of course.



Yes, back on topic.  Warren is a supporter of breaking up big banks.  I don't know why she supports Hillary.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23402619 - 07/01/16 10:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Yes, back on topic.  Warren is a supporter of breaking up big banks.  I don't know why she supports Hillary.




I know why she is doing it, honestly. I believe she was one of a very few female congress people who did not endorse Hillary until the nomination process was essentially over. Now, she sees Hillary as a far better candidate than Trump, and she knows that Bernie supporters like her a lot, so she is doing what she can to prevent a Trump presidency. I'm sure she doesn't want to do it.

Regardless, the last thing we need right now is politicians who won't stand by their principles (or don't have any). For that, to me, she is a useless cunt.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23402641 - 07/01/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Makes sense.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23403194 - 07/02/16 06:15 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
bring back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Legislation.



I agree.  :thumbup:

Quote:

qman said:
These elite try to scare the shit out of people like Fal so they get "too big too fail" status. Guess what?  Bond defaults, insolvency and bankruptcy are all parts of capitalism!!!  It's not a economic collapse when it happens.



So the first Great Depression wasn't an economic collapse?  The recovery happened on its own without the Government spending ridiculous amounts of money to restimulate the economy?

Quote:

qman said:
They want people to believe in the crony capitalism that keeps them in power, I refuse to support that nonsense.



I hate crony capitalism as much as anyone.  That's why I'm calling for Government regulations to prevent the need for any future Government bailout.  You may think Great Depressions are just a natural part of capitalism, but they are tremendously devastating, and Government help is needed to kick start the economy during a depression.  History provides very clear evidence of this.




Govt regulation is crony capitalism, you support the very thing you claim to be against:facepalm3:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23403200 - 07/02/16 06:22 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Of course banks made money BEFORE the mortgage crisis, that's NOT the point, they knew that people could never make the payments once the terms of payment changed, that means default.



It's exactly the point.  The oil companies in your example weren't guaranteed to make money; that's why they didn't "constantly do risky exploration all over the world in hopes of hitting the mother lode of oil".  The banks selling risky mortgages were guaranteed to make money because they resold their mortgages to offload the risk they took on.

Quote:

qman said:
"Lehman Brothers"

Was a choice to let it go, the other banks were in no different of a situation. Why do you buy everything the people at the top told you about the "crisis"?



The economy started to collapse after the fall the Lehman Brothers.  Bear Stearns and AIG were even bigger, and those would have had a much greater impact on the economy.

Quote:

qman said:
I should have said MANY small and medium size banks did NOT engage in risky lending practices, you are exactly right in that many did fail.



And a good number of big banks didn't engage in risky behavior either.  The point is that most didn't care about the risks of their behavior as long as they were guaranteed to make short term profits.




"they resold their mortgages to offload the risk they took on"

They resold SOME of the mortgages, obviously not enough to avoid insolvency. So the fact of the matter is they made SHORT term profits while at the same time leading to their own destruction, no sane executive engages in that behavior unless they already know "too big too fail" is their safety net. If a bank is leveraged 20 to 1, what percentage of bad mortgages does it take to become insolvent?  Just 5%.

"A good number of big banks didn't engage in risky behavior either"

Some large REGIONAL banks didn't engage in risky behavior, all of the "big" banks (Citi, BAC, JPM, WF, GS, MS) did engage in the risky behavior. I wonder why? :lol:


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
    #23403448 - 07/02/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23403976 - 07/02/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Govt regulation is crony capitalism, you support the very thing you claim to be against:facepalm3:



You are a living facepalm.  :picard:

It is only crony capitalism when it benefits the rich.  Rules to end too big to fail is NOT crony capitalism.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
    #23403988 - 07/02/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
they resold their mortgages to offload the risk they took on



They resold SOME of the mortgages, obviously not enough to avoid insolvency. So the fact of the matter is they made SHORT term profits while at the same time leading to their own destruction, no sane executive engages in that behavior unless they already know "too big too fail" is their safety net.



The safety net was only granted to the too big to fail banks AFTER the economy was tanking hard.  The banks that weren't too big to fail went bankrupt - as it should have been.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23404132 - 07/02/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Govt regulation is crony capitalism, you support the very thing you claim to be against:facepalm3:



You are a living facepalm.  :picard:

It is only crony capitalism when it benefits the rich.  Rules to end too big to fail is NOT crony capitalism.





BS, you have dems right now fighting to put Uber out of business by way of their "safety regulations" that's crony capitilaism and its supported by dems becuase it benefits their party from big union labor donations.

The bank regulations are the same way, it protects the big banks, because they can afford to implement the rules, smaller banks can't.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23404202 - 07/02/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
BS, you have dems right now fighting to put Uber out of business by way of their "safety regulations" that's crony capitilaism and its supported by dems becuase it benefits their party from big union labor donations.



I'm not aware of Democrats trying to put Uber out of business.  The only safety regulation I'm aware of is background checks for drivers.  Is that what you're talking about, or is there something else I'm not familiar with?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23404364 - 07/02/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
BS, you have dems right now fighting to put Uber out of business by way of their "safety regulations" that's crony capitilaism and its supported by dems becuase it benefits their party from big union labor donations.



I'm not aware of Democrats trying to put Uber out of business.  The only safety regulation I'm aware of is background checks for drivers.  Is that what you're talking about, or is there something else I'm not familiar with?




Lol, you really do only read left wing blogs, don't you?

Austin along with New York and Chicago have proposed regulating them becuase they are not unionized, they are cheaper than unionized labor cabs and therefore deemed "unsafe" do you really not see the collusion? Are you really that fucking blind?

You can play the safety card all you want, once again, burdensome govt regulations will put a small company and private contractors out of business to favor their union buddies. Yes, that's crony capitalism

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/09/uber-and-lyft-pause-austin-operations-in-standoff-over-regulation/

Drunk driving rates will increase, but hey, at least unions are protected!:whatever:


--------------------
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23408362 - 07/03/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
they resold their mortgages to offload the risk they took on



They resold SOME of the mortgages, obviously not enough to avoid insolvency. So the fact of the matter is they made SHORT term profits while at the same time leading to their own destruction, no sane executive engages in that behavior unless they already know "too big too fail" is their safety net.



The safety net was only granted to the too big to fail banks AFTER the economy was tanking hard.  The banks that weren't too big to fail went bankrupt - as it should have been.




So a economy that's potentially tanking justifies safety nets for irresponsible behavior from large banks?  I don't think so.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman] * 1
    #23408487 - 07/03/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
they resold their mortgages to offload the risk they took on



They resold SOME of the mortgages, obviously not enough to avoid insolvency. So the fact of the matter is they made SHORT term profits while at the same time leading to their own destruction, no sane executive engages in that behavior unless they already know "too big too fail" is their safety net.



The safety net was only granted to the too big to fail banks AFTER the economy was tanking hard.  The banks that weren't too big to fail went bankrupt - as it should have been.




So a economy that's potentially tanking justifies safety nets for irresponsible behavior from large banks?  I don't think so.




Wasn't a stipulation of the bailouts that the banks were supposed to be spllt up? I believe it was, but because of their influence, it never came to fruition. I've heard E. Warren making calls for this on multiple occasions.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23409538 - 07/04/16 07:42 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23410398 - 07/04/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
BS, you have dems right now fighting to put Uber out of business by way of their "safety regulations" that's crony capitilaism and its supported by dems becuase it benefits their party from big union labor donations.



I'm not aware of Democrats trying to put Uber out of business.  The only safety regulation I'm aware of is background checks for drivers.  Is that what you're talking about, or is there something else I'm not familiar with?



Lol, you really do only read left wing blogs, don't you?

Austin along with New York and Chicago have proposed regulating them becuase they are not unionized, they are cheaper than unionized labor cabs and therefore deemed "unsafe"



No one but you claims cheaper service makes Uber unsafe.  Can you ever make just ONE post without a straw man???  I read your article; it wasn't about safety.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
You can play the safety card all you want, once again, burdensome govt regulations will put a small company and private contractors out of business to favor their union buddies. Yes, that's crony capitalism



No one but you says unions makes Uber safer, Mr Straw Man King.  :picard:  :shake:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
    #23410410 - 07/04/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
So a economy that's potentially tanking justifies safety nets for irresponsible behavior from large banks?  I don't think so.



It's either that or suffer a Great Depression.

The point is that businesses should never have been allowed to become too big to fail.  Wooof is correct in that they should have broken up the too big to fail banks so this never happens again.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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