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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: Are you suggesting that Dodd-Frank limits "banks to become so large"?
My point is that if the banks already know in advance that there's no "too big to fail" bailout in the future, they will act more responsibly.
If you're a senior executive faced with the following choices, which would you take?
a. Make tens of millions of dollars a year and be set for life by making risky investments, with a very good possibility that your company will fail? b. Make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by making safe investments and having to work your whole life, with only a small possibility that your company will fail?
Most people would (and did) choose the former.
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qman said: "their failure would bring down the economy???"
That's nothing more than a speculation, bond defaults, insolvency, bankruptcy, and the selling of distressed assets are all parts of capitalism that function when given the chance.
You obviously weren't paying any attention during the recession. Henry Paulson, a free market republican that HATES Government intervention and who allowed Lehman Brothers to go bankrupt, realized the Government had no choice but to step in to prevent an ongoing domino effect from collapsing the economy. He's the last guy that would have wanted to do that.
So executives inherently risk the solvency of the companies they manage for personal monetary gain? That's not a very rational thesis, does the Exxon CEO constantly do risky exploration all over the world in hopes of hitting the mother lode of oil? No, why? Because he knows there's no government bailout on the horizon if he fucks up.
The Bankers only did what they did because they knew they had a safety net, take the safety net away and the risky behavior changes in short order. BTW, small and medium sized banks did NOT engage in the same behavior, why? Because they didn't want to bankrupt their company.
"Henry Paulson"
Wonderful, Colin Powell was the last person that wanted to go into Iraq, so when he put his seal of approval on the invasion the majority of skeptics "realized the government had no choice but to step in". I don't put much stock into political pawns and their rationalizations.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
#23400585 - 07/01/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bailouts encourage risky behavior, not stifle it.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23401139 - 07/01/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said: The same fucking retards who think bank failures would collapse the worlds economy have been saying Brexit would collapse the UK economy, they never get tired of being profoundly fucking wrong on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE
First of all, why do you think it's the "same retards"? Free market conservatives have also said too big to fail banks would bring down the economy if they were allowed to fail, and that's what was happening before they were bailed out.
Second, Britain hasn't exited from the EU yet, so we don't yet know the financial costs. The drop in the value of the pound has already cost Britain hundreds of billions of dollars even without exiting.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman] 2
#23401197 - 07/01/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: So executives inherently risk the solvency of the companies they manage for personal monetary gain? That's not a very rational thesis, does the Exxon CEO constantly do risky exploration all over the world in hopes of hitting the mother lode of oil?
Bad example. Before the mortgage crisis, banks were giving out a ton of risky subprime mortgages, because they were certain to make money on that. Your example isn't about certain money.
Quote:
qman said: The Bankers only did what they did because they knew they had a safety net, take the safety net away and the risky behavior changes in short order.
Wrong again. Was there a safety net for Lehman Brothers? No, because the Government didn't believe in safety nets, until they realized that they had no choice to prevent a collapse.
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qman said: BTW, small and medium sized banks did NOT engage in the same behavior, why? Because they didn't want to bankrupt their company.
Wrong yet again. Small and medium sized banks issued subprime mortgages as well, and a great many of them failed without a bailout.
Quote:
qman said: "Henry Paulson"
Wonderful, Colin Powell was the last person that wanted to go into Iraq, so when he put his seal of approval on the invasion the majority of skeptics "realized the government had no choice but to step in". I don't put much stock into political pawns and their rationalizations.
A fair point, except that in the case of Iraq, we know Powell made a mistake, and he does too.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The same fucking retards who think bank failures would collapse the worlds economy have been saying Brexit would collapse the UK economy, they never get tired of being profoundly fucking wrong on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE
First of all, why do you think it's the "same retards"? Free market conservatives have also said too big to fail banks would bring down the economy if they were allowed to fail, and that's what was happening before they were bailed out.
Second, Britain hasn't exited from the EU yet, so we don't yet know the financial costs. The drop in the value of the pound has already cost Britain hundreds of billions of dollars even without exiting.
Because he doesn't think. He just says shit.
I'm wondering when HU will get tired of being wrong about everything, honestly.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23401404 - 07/01/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have to break up the banks to prevent 'too big to fail' from being a problem. Over time the banks will consolidate once again, and create this problem again, because that is the nature of Capitalism, but in the short term, that solves the problem. Deregulation certainly isn't the solution. Please explain to me how it is.
It is, and has been, conventional knowledge that when banks become too large, and engage in risky behavior, the possibility of economic collapse becomes very real.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The same fucking retards who think bank failures would collapse the worlds economy have been saying Brexit would collapse the UK economy, they never get tired of being profoundly fucking wrong on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE
First of all, why do you think it's the "same retards"? Free market conservatives have also said too big to fail banks would bring down the economy if they were allowed to fail, and that's what was happening before they were bailed out.
Second, Britain hasn't exited from the EU yet, so we don't yet know the financial costs. The drop in the value of the pound has already cost Britain hundreds of billions of dollars even without exiting.
Let me guess, you think Bush was some sort of free market capitalist? News flash Einstein, republican does NOT equal "free market capitalist"
The ones who opposed the bailouts, how do you describe them? I suppose they are just ignorant rubes, not smart enough to see how smart the elitist big govt ruling class are, right?
As for the drop in the Pound, when arguing progressive policies, progs never seem to care what it's Gonna cost the citizens, now all the sudden they care? How sweet
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23401603 - 07/01/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:

weird emoji. are you sheepishly offering us handjobs?
--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Tipote]
#23401682 - 07/01/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:

weird emoji. are you sheepishly offering us handjobs?
Oh hey look, more belittling and derailments from a progressive, are you too fucking scared to reply based on merit? Is shallow insults all you have? Sounds like a loser position to me
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 5,410
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23401770 - 07/01/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:

weird emoji. are you sheepishly offering us handjobs?
Oh hey look, more belittling and derailments from a progressive, are you too fucking scared to reply based on merit? Is shallow insults all you have? Sounds like a loser position to me
chill out dude I was just making a joke. You're always so butthurt and with such a victim mentality.
--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Tipote]
#23401783 - 07/01/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:

weird emoji. are you sheepishly offering us handjobs?
Oh hey look, more belittling and derailments from a progressive, are you too fucking scared to reply based on merit? Is shallow insults all you have? Sounds like a loser position to me
chill out dude I was just making a joke. You're always so butthurt and with such a victim mentality.
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qman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: So executives inherently risk the solvency of the companies they manage for personal monetary gain? That's not a very rational thesis, does the Exxon CEO constantly do risky exploration all over the world in hopes of hitting the mother lode of oil?
Bad example. Before the mortgage crisis, banks were giving out a ton of risky subprime mortgages, because they were certain to make money on that. Your example isn't about certain money.
Quote:
qman said: The Bankers only did what they did because they knew they had a safety net, take the safety net away and the risky behavior changes in short order.
Wrong again. Was there a safety net for Lehman Brothers? No, because the Government didn't believe in safety nets, until they realized that they had no choice to prevent a collapse.
Quote:
qman said: BTW, small and medium sized banks did NOT engage in the same behavior, why? Because they didn't want to bankrupt their company.
Wrong yet again. Small and medium sized banks issued subprime mortgages as well, and a great many of them failed without a bailout.
Quote:
qman said: "Henry Paulson"
Wonderful, Colin Powell was the last person that wanted to go into Iraq, so when he put his seal of approval on the invasion the majority of skeptics "realized the government had no choice but to step in". I don't put much stock into political pawns and their rationalizations.
A fair point, except that in the case of Iraq, we know Powell made a mistake, and he does too.
Of course banks made money BEFORE the mortgage crisis, that's NOT the point, they knew that people could never make the payments once the terms of payment changed, that means default.
"Lehman Brothers"
Was a choice to let it go, the other banks were in no different of a situation. Why do you buy everything the people at the top told you about the "crisis"?
I should have said MANY small and medium size banks did NOT engage in risky lending practices, you are exactly right in that many did fail.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
#23401818 - 07/01/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Stop derailing this thread with nonsensical bullshit please.
Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren being a cunt (yes, a cunt), for (Refer to video in OP).
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman]
#23401825 - 07/01/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's funny that the govt didn't bail out Trump when his businesses tan into trouble, I guess they didn't care about all his contractors, but the big banks execs... BAIL OUT!
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qman
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23401828 - 07/01/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: You have to break up the banks to prevent 'too big to fail' from being a problem. Over time the banks will consolidate once again, and create this problem again, because that is the nature of Capitalism, but in the short term, that solves the problem. Deregulation certainly isn't the solution. Please explain to me how it is.
It is, and has been, conventional knowledge that when banks become too large, and engage in risky behavior, the possibility of economic collapse becomes very real.
LET THEM FAIL, they will stop engaging in risky behavior, or better yet, bring back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Legislation.
These elite try to scare the shit out of people like Fal so they get "too big too fail" status. Guess what? Bond defaults, insolvency and bankruptcy are all parts of capitalism!!! It's not a economic collapse when it happens.
They want people to believe in the crony capitalism that keeps them in power, I refuse to support that nonsense.
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qman
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23401832 - 07/01/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Stop derailing this thread with nonsensical bullshit please.
Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren being a cunt (yes, a cunt), for (Refer to video in OP).
Didn't mean to derail, but with that being said, isn't Warren a big critic of the banks? What's her solution? Status quo!!
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23401875 - 07/01/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: It's funny that the govt didn't bail out Trump when his businesses tan into trouble, I guess they didn't care about all his contractors, but the big banks execs... BAIL OUT!
I'm curious, would you have supported bailing Donald Trump out during all of his many, many failures?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: qman] 1
#23401876 - 07/01/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Stop derailing this thread with nonsensical bullshit please.
Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren being a cunt (yes, a cunt), for (Refer to video in OP).
Didn't mean to derail, but with that being said, isn't Warren a big critic of the banks? What's her solution? Status quo!!
Her solution is to break them up. It's the correct solution. Hillary does not agree with her, of course.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23401886 - 07/01/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: It's funny that the govt didn't bail out Trump when his businesses tan into trouble, I guess they didn't care about all his contractors, but the big banks execs... BAIL OUT!
I'm curious, would you have supported bailing Donald Trump out during all of his many, many failures?
First off, trump has had MANY more successes than failures and to deny that is strait up bitch behavior
Scondly, I think we all know the ONLY jobs that matter are union democrat voting jobs and big bank exec democrat donating jobs
That said. No, I do not support bailouts of any kind
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Elizabeth Warren Campaigning for Clinton [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23401890 - 07/01/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Stop derailing this thread with nonsensical bullshit please.
Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren being a cunt (yes, a cunt), for (Refer to video in OP).
Didn't mean to derail, but with that being said, isn't Warren a big critic of the banks? What's her solution? Status quo!!
Her solution is to break them up. It's the correct solution. Hillary does not agree with her, of course.
Yet, there she is supporting Hillary "birds of a feather"
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