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discolouration of popcorn heated to 97C for 19 hours.
    #23390919 - 06/28/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

This is popcorn cooked so 100g absorbed 100ml of extra water and ended up 200g. It had no further heat treatment.



This is the from the same pack of popcorn cooked to the same 100g/100ml ratio but it was first PC'd for 2hours. After that it looked similar in colour to the photo above. But I had a jar smash while shaking (wear gloves people, this jar looked perfect). So I wanted to heat treat it again. It had cooled down for a good 12hours and was put into a water bath at 97C for 19 hours. There was no filter on the jar and it lost absolutely no moisture (weighed the same before and after).



These were taken with the same camera at the same time & place & lighting.

I heated other grains for prolonged times before and saw discolouring, but as the grain was already dark it was not as noticeable, also previously I figured they had dried out with moisture escaping out of the cap, so this time weighed to monitor it.


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Re: discolouration of popcorn heated to 97C for 19 hours. [Re: blackout]
    #23394440 - 06/29/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I put more in for 24hr which had not been PC'd first, it was the first jar pictured above. They did not come out as discoloured but I never got a photo.

I also reheated some agar which was already set, this was done for about 17 hours, it came out and did not set again. I had this with some other agars I heated for prolonged times below 100C.


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Re: discolouration of popcorn heated to 97C for 19 hours. [Re: blackout]
    #23394449 - 06/29/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:grin:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Re: discolouration of popcorn heated to 97C for 19 hours. [Re: cronicr]
    #23410103 - 07/04/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

First grain jar was cooked to get it to 100g/100ml, then left for about 8 hours at 18C, then 96-97C for 24hours, 8 hours at 18C, 96-97C for 115hours (nearly 5 days, or at least I think it was, 4 days at least).

fist pic again after the initial hydration


pics below after 24+115hr cooking. You can see moisture seemed to come out of the grains and has not been reabsorbed yet. I may microwave it off as I think its too wet. The starting grain was still moist looking but I expected it to cook into the grains. I thought moisture would escape from the lids but it did not seem to.






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Re: discolouration of popcorn heated to 97C for 19 hours. [Re: blackout]
    #23432260 - 07/11/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

These are the narrow jars from the original post.


13 days after having small bits of agar dropped in, and they were shaken 3 days ago. They are wetter than I would like by myc is growing on them. There are no filters on the jars which is another test I am doing. I believe jars will do OK with no filter if they are a certain ratio, i.e. to the extreme a 100L jar with 100g of grain will likely do fine with no filter. The jars may being to stall after a while, in which case I will crack them, but at that stage they may have enough growth to be resistant to any contams.

If jars cooked this long had filters I expect they would dry out during cooking. A syringe filter could be added if the lids had SHIPs, there are ways to make cheap filters with needles.

I next want to test jars heated in surrounding liquids slightly above 100C, this can be done by heating in oil or in water with additives like sugar or salt. This should cause the jars to be under a little pressure and should be faster to get the equivalent reduction in contams. In previous tests I have found my shop store sauce jars take about 3psi before releasing air through the cap. This would no doubt depend on the jar. I have seen some canning jars which I imagine would not leak and are thick enough to take more pressure. If you had an oil bath at 101C and were confident of its control it could be left unattended. Most people steaming jars for extended times are probably using a lot more energy than they really need. I have had vacuum insulated tanks which hold 10L which only lost about 10W while at 100C. A well insulated 50 gallon drum would lose a lot more but probably still a lot less than people typically piss away as steam. The energy from a container held at temp need not go to waste anyway, it would be in a house in cold weather heating it.


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Re: discolouration of popcorn heated to 97C for 19 hours. [Re: blackout]
    #23547282 - 08/16/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
The jars may being to stall after a while, in which case I will crack them, but at that stage they may have enough growth to be resistant to any contams


Those jars did stall, they looked overly wet and I suspected they had bacteria. I shook to see if they would recover but did not crack them as there was not enough growth, I was still thinking they should have enough air inside as the jars are tall hotdog ones. I did not take notes but the myc did not recover at all. There were only a few grains with visible myc on it, but the myc looked dead & wet so I left them and forgot about them.

I was growing other jars with no filters and put plastic bags over the jars and smeared vaseline around the top of the jars and pressed the bag against that area and then pulled it away. This meant air could get in the cracked lid but contams would hopefully stick to the bag or jar. This worked and I got good growth. I later did the same with my hotdog jars, which had not changed in weeks, thought they were still either too wet, bacterial or that the myc was dead at this stage as there had been no sign of growth in weeks. So again I forgot about them.

Today I see they are actively recolonising again showing to me that GE is more necessary than I had thought, I mean I knew it was needed but thought my low ratio of grain to jar size might have meant I could have got away with none. I also find it interesting that you can seemingly stall growth like this and then have it recover at a later date, I wonder how long they could have been left and recovered in the same way. Some say jars colonised for a long time can result in more potent shrooms (see mycofile's old posts), but many are also concerned that the grain is being consumed and so gone to waste with needlessly long consolidation periods, potency is always a thorny issue and I don't want to get into it here, just saying it's the only reason I have ever heard to leave jars for months.

People might say you could store the jars in the fridge to stall them but many do not want jars in the fridge, in case of visitors or simply as they have no space. Some go on holidays or out of town and want to stall jars for a couple of weeks. You could get into slants for long term storage etc but it would be interesting if you could simply prepare say 10 jars and close the filter off on one and put into storage for later, if the lack of GE stops the myc growing it might also stop some contams, as many would say you only have a certain window of time to grow in before contams take hold. Also you could let the jar fully colonise (unlike what I did) and then close the filter off, which could stop "over consolidation" and the grains getting used up.


Edited by blackout (08/16/16 04:12 PM)


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