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 Bagels
Huntress
 
Registered: 07/11/14
Posts: 1,029
Loc: NZ
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 Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ  [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23382358 - 06/25/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I did two other collections from different places at the same time as the first.
I went there yesterday and I only found about ten although I didn't have a lot of time to hunt. I was going to go back today but it has poured down with rain all day. The place has been mulched with wood chips and I mean heaps of wood chips. I don't know If there will be more mushrooms even if this weather improves.
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 Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Bagels]
#23386352 - 06/27/16 01:51 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Inski checked the microscopy and confirmed that this is Psilocybe tasmaniana, a species previously only known from Australia.
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Matai
Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 1,016
Loc: NZ 
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23386358 - 06/27/16 01:55 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow, that's really exciting! Well done to Bagels and everyone else involved. 
Does a discovery like that merit academic publication? Or is a record on somewhere like mushroom observer sufficient?
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Bluing
Subsecotioides Seeker
Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 372
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Matai]
#23386385 - 06/27/16 02:15 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alan,
I don't know enough about DNA sequencing, but am aware there are similarities with many psilocybes that suggest a number of macroscopically divergent specimens are almost identical. I read a paper quite some time ago that suggested something may be lost with DNA amplification - along the lines of some missing data for want of a better term.. Your thoughts on that?
For the life of me I can't find that paper quickly.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Bluing]
#23386438 - 06/27/16 02:44 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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In Psilocybe section Cyanescens, the differences in ITS sequences between species are very small. In the rest of Psilocybe, the differences in ITS sequences are numerous. Since the other features match, there isn't any reason to think that this one base pair difference is significant.
Sometimes the TAQ enzyme has copying errors during PCR, but that only changes on average 1 base in 1000. It would not affect the results we are seeing here.
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Bagels
Huntress
Registered: 07/11/14
Posts: 1,029
Loc: NZ
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23387715 - 06/27/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow!! I missed this last night. Thanks to Alan and inski, great work!!
Interesting too the origin of the name Tasman from Abel Tasman who was the first European to discover NZ.
Are there any images of spores, etc.? This is very exciting news. Thanks guys it is great to have the mystery solved. Psilocybe tasmaniana very cool!!
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Blazer420
ŦøжїϿ ÐȐȜȧƜƐȓ
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 4,900
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Bagels]
#23387975 - 06/27/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nice 1 Alan. Good work.
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Hashed
SHROOM HEAD
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 1,933
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23388627 - 06/27/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Inski checked the microscopy and confirmed that this is Psilocybe tasmaniana, a species previously only known from Australia.
So your telling me, inski's pot plant sp. is Psilocybe tasmaniana?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Hashed]
#23388631 - 06/27/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said:
So your telling me, inski's pot plant sp. is Psilocybe tasmaniana?
Yes.
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Hashed
SHROOM HEAD
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 1,933
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23388633 - 06/27/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why did inski not know this sooner? 
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Hashed]
#23388649 - 06/27/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said:
Why did inski not know this sooner?
As often happens when DNA sequencing points to a match, microscopy was checked and it matched.
It is hard to ID mushrooms via microscopy, the characteristics are often ambiguous and overlapping.
P. tasmaniana is a poorly known species which wasn't known to occur in New Zealand.
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Hashed
SHROOM HEAD
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 1,933
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23388686 - 06/27/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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So "inski's pot plant sp." was P. tasmaniana all along.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Hashed]
#23388776 - 06/27/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said:
So "inski's pot plant sp." was P. tasmaniana all along.
Yes. We only noticed when the sequence from the Bagels collection matched Heyowanas collection, prompting Inski to compare his micro with P. tasmaniana specifically.
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Hashed
SHROOM HEAD
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 1,933
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23388798 - 06/27/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Awesome, still haven't made P. subsecotioides official I assume?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Hashed]
#23389010 - 06/27/16 08:33 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashed said:
Awesome, still haven't made P. subsecotioides official I assume?
The sequences came out the same as P. weraroa. It should probably be described as a variety.
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Bagels
Huntress
Registered: 07/11/14
Posts: 1,029
Loc: NZ
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23389108 - 06/27/16 08:56 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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A collection I made last month.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,476
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 10 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Bagels]
#23389131 - 06/27/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Funny that the first thread response turned out to be right all along.
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Hashed
SHROOM HEAD
Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 1,933
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#23389176 - 06/27/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Hashed said:
Awesome, still haven't made P. subsecotioides official I assume?
The sequences came out the same as P. weraroa. It should probably be described as a variety.
So P. subsecotioides are P. weraroa, just a woodchip variety?
This might interest you.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23358764#23358764
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Dunedinite
Actually a cat
Registered: 04/06/16
Posts: 1,059
Loc: Dunedin, New Zealand
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Hashed]
#23394825 - 06/29/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I really don't get the phylogeny of shrooms. The absolutely minor difference in sequences between two "species" don't seem like anything more than utterly minor variation. Are mushrooms clonal or something, in that the offspring are genetically identical to the parent? Don't actually know how mushrooms reproduce, never got to the mycology stage of botany, just stuck with the plants.
Also, do you do full genome sequencing, or just focus on small things like the ITS? Note that I'm a biochemist/molecular biologist, so I don't really get too much involved in genetics except for fucking with the genetic structure to make mutants for study.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 13 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ID Request for a small mushroom that looks like a Psilocybe sp. NZ [Re: Dunedinite]
#23396217 - 06/30/16 02:38 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Full genome sequencing costs about $2000 and I can do the ITS for about $8.
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