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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23389115 - 06/27/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Science isn't aiming to disprove religion it just does it as knowledge progresses. 
E.g. The Earth revolves around the Sun.

Science hasn't proven magic real yet and I doubt it ever will.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: demiu5]
    #23389120 - 06/27/16 09:00 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The only god that science doesn't explicitly contradict is the god of the gaps.  That is, a god carefully constructed to live in the gaps of our knowledge that nobody really worships anyway.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: sudly]
    #23389147 - 06/27/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sure, but the significant actions and beliefs are the ones that materially effect the world and other people IMO. as i mentioned Nazis were secular. believing in god or not is not what makes a person or institution good or bad.




Beliefs help us form actions but the beliefs themselves do not materially effect the world.

Quote:

quinn said: Nazis were secular



Do you mean the Nazi's who killed people for being Jewish?

Quote:

anyone can practice the scientific method in their life by themselves. you dont need to be in contact with the scientific community to do real science. science in essence is a method



Science follows the scientific method, I don't think we disagree :shrug:

Quote:

yeah, 'common'='shared' sense, our socialisation informs our morality




Or common = basic thought/feeling
E.g. Do you want to be stabbed?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: sudly]
    #23389148 - 06/27/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Science isn't aiming to disprove religion it just does it as knowledge progresses. 
E.g. The Earth revolves around the Sun.

Science hasn't proven magic real yet and I doubt it ever will.






when/where has science disproven any religion, since you say "it just does...?"


and for your example given, scientists are the ones who proclaimed the earth was the center of all the universe, and that everything revolved around it.  how species-centric does it get, eh?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: DieCommie]
    #23389156 - 06/27/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
The only god that science doesn't explicitly contradict is the god of the gaps.  That is, a god carefully constructed to live in the gaps of our knowledge that nobody really worships anyway.





Isn't that where any viable God lives, anyway? In the in-between, in the spaces that aren't full of busy-ness or casual-effect? The places where we feel an infinite space. That's what I feel, anyway.


--------------------
full blown human


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: demiu5]
    #23389158 - 06/27/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Thor is one example, he doesn't make lightning.

The Earth was formed over 4 billion years ago over a long period of time as gases collapsed to form the planet. < (This alone removes the basis of a lot of religions)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
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Posts: 8,535
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23389200 - 06/27/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Thor is one example, he doesn't make lightning.

The Earth was formed over 4 billion years ago over a long period of time as gases collapsed to form the planet. < (This alone removes the basis of a lot of religions)






I think another layer is added when you take literalism vs metaphorism. So maybe there's a scientific explanation for lightning, but the storyof Thor and what it describes from an emotional, cultural, and subjective perspective may be more (or atleast equally as) important as what the explanation provides.


--------------------
full blown human


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: demiu5] * 3
    #23389201 - 06/27/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
scientists are the ones who proclaimed the earth was the center of all the universe, and that everything revolved around it.




I've never heard of any scientist that claimed anything of the sort.  But even if you want to water down scientist to include ancient natural philosophers and mystics this still isn't a mark against science.  Nobody should ever think that scientific conclusions are always true and unbiased... That is not the power of science.  The power of science is that all scientific conclusions are assailable and subject to being updated or overturned completely in light of new evidence.


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Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
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Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: sudly]
    #23389298 - 06/27/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Beliefs help us form actions but the beliefs themselves do not materially effect the world.



sure agreed

Quote:

Quote:

quinn said: Nazis were secular



Do you mean the Nazi's who killed people for being Jewish?



yes, obviously. (??)

Quote:

Science follows the scientific method, I don't think we disagree :shrug:



yes i was just reiterating that science is a method, not a form of social organisation (like religion)

Quote:

Quote:

yeah, 'common'='shared' sense, our socialisation informs our morality




Or common = basic thought/feeling
E.g. Do you want to be stabbed?




i would argue that on a social level a basic thought or feeling is informed by the standards we set for one another. i think a lot of our feelings depend upon the social contexts we are in


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: quinn]
    #23389448 - 06/27/16 10:58 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that our behaviours are influenced by our up bringing but humans get to a point in maturity when they can make decisions for themselves.

The difficult part of this is that a lot of people make the wrong choices. I.E. I don't need to follow the law.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
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Posts: 6,799
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: sudly]
    #23389576 - 06/27/16 11:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

hmm following the law isnt always the right choice either! how do we know what's wrong or right? how can we ensure we dont make the 'wrong choices' whatever that means? (idk myself, all seems pretty grey to me.. :ohwell:)


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: quinn] * 1
    #23389585 - 06/27/16 11:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Empathy is a good start.  :hug:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: sudly]
    #23389595 - 06/27/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

:nicekitty:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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OfflineHippocampus
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Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: quinn]
    #23389746 - 06/28/16 01:16 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Perhaps, but I don't see mystics adding any non-personal knowledge to the body of mankind.




Pythagoras?


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Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand Flag
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23389816 - 06/28/16 01:50 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

In OC's mind, if he hasn't personally read Pythagoras then Pythagoras does not exist.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: viktor]
    #23389852 - 06/28/16 02:25 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

what about Newton?


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dripping with fantasy


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OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
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Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: quinn] * 1
    #23390049 - 06/28/16 05:47 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think a scientist has to be an atheist, but they have to  be wiling  to hold competing and fundamentally different ideas in his'her  consciousness, really keep them in different spheres of his/her mind. I think Einstein did this, but that was in the 30's and I don't think there are too many top scientists capable of that today between childhood ingrained ideologies and the previously mentioned point about strong  norms in the scientific professions.

    You may or not be collaborating in your dept, besides your grad assistants, but once you send that paper into a top rated journal, you are totally looking for social approval from the top people in your field.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #23390758 - 06/28/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think a scientist has to be an atheist, but they have to  be wiling  to hold competing and fundamentally different ideas in his'her  consciousness, really keep them in different spheres of his/her mind. 





Exactly.


--------------------


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Offlinefalcon
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Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23392109 - 06/28/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Hippocampus said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Perhaps, but I don't see mystics adding any non-personal knowledge to the body of mankind.




Pythagoras?




Liebniz, Kepler?

Tesla? Alternate the current much?

Faraday, that slacker!


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: Must a scientist be an atheist? [Re: falcon]
    #23392150 - 06/28/16 08:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Quote:

Hippocampus said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Perhaps, but I don't see mystics adding any non-personal knowledge to the body of mankind.




Pythagoras?




Liebniz, Kepler?

Tesla? Alternate the current much?

Faraday, that slacker!




Isaac Newton?  He had a fervent and devout religiosity, plus he was an alchemist.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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