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DeadPhan



Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 5,260
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Never not starting from agar again...
#23384038 - 06/26/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's really not much of a viable excuse for doing anything but. Aside from just being impatient and too eager. I've already lost about half the summer already. I'm still coming up with contams. The most recent was a seemingly healthy master to a bunch of newly altered plastic lids with sfds as I decided to invest and switch from metal rings and lids to plastic and from polyfil to sfd. Well, I'm hoping there was a latent unseen contam in the master. I've got a couple more g2gs from other masters so well see. I'm so exhausted from chasing and trying to pinpoint source of contams. When, if I just always start from agar I'll be able to pinpoint so much better. For a while I been back and forth with wondering if my flowhood is faulty, or possibly fault of filters or or from inoculation source. I honestly hope it's just the inoculation and doing MS straight to grain. Master jars seemingly healthy, but possibly harboring an unseen contam.
I just did a bunch of agar about a week ago. 20 no pour jars. 12 being nocced with a variety of 4 different types from ms, and 3 of those jars left out in front of the hood with the cover off as a control experiment. The remainder in fridge for transfers. I'd done this before in the past and found flowhood was just fine. Hope so again. If I find flowhood is and fault I'll go back to SAB for time being until I invest in making another hood. My worry on my hood is its been stored in some compromising places over the past 3 or 4 yrs I've had it. Some old basements, dirty drafty garages, carports, vehicles, etc. Anyway I get 100 percent success more often than not. But once I get a bad run going it just seems to snowball. Especially when working with Ms. I've had great runs with MS but at the end of the day, it's not worth the wondering. It's too hard to know for sure that a batch got contam ed by, faulty technique, spawn, fh issues, filter issues. From agar at least I'll know where in the weak links are. If any at all aside from inoculate source.
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Big Gulps! Alright! Well, See ya later! And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: DeadPhan]
#23384085 - 06/26/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yep. People might see 70% success with spores to grain. This might sound good to some people. But let's say you run 4 tubs a month, which really isn't that much. That's 48 tubs a year. Which means that taking 30% losses you will see 14-15 failed moldy messes a year. Who in the hell wants to clean up that mess? Not me.
Lets say you have a bad streak (syringe) and see half of those losses back to back. That's 7-8 tubs and means two straight months of fail. That would be discouraging to a vet. For a noob it could make them give up.
Now there are other factors besides inoculate that can contribute. But they become easier to pinpoint and narrow down when you know your culture is clean.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23384106 - 06/26/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heh try failing for years on end about 50% of the time and being too damned hardheaded and or stupid to figure it out.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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Leftfield420
bong toker



Registered: 02/26/16
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23384118 - 06/26/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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It only took me losing 2 tubs to start agar work....now I don't see me going back to ms for anything at all...unless I'm putting a drop on a couple plates and passing it along to the next man in need in the marketplace
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Leftfield420]
#23384126 - 06/26/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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MS is fine. But start it on agar. I have had more ms than I care too in order to move my RW lineage forward. Still had some good results with it tho.
These are ms
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Leftfield420
bong toker



Registered: 02/26/16
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23384298 - 06/26/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Damn...those look fuckin awesome....but I don't have my shit down yet.....still learning, fixing to put together a 66qt mono of TOC or pink buffalo in the next few weeks hopefully? You know how it goes trying to plan shit out as a noob...so far shit hasn't gone quite tge way I wanted....but I'm still here
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Leftfield420]
#23384306 - 06/26/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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man makes plans and god laughs
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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Leftfield420
bong toker



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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: maddchef]
#23384321 - 06/26/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly now I just roll with it
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Mycologist217
Frank's Disciple



Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 2,425
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Leftfield420]
#23384324 - 06/26/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you need guidance planning out a MONOTUBS grow, I encourage you to browse through the grow logs linked in my signature, I write my logs in very nice to follow format, and start them by laying out my learning objectives, supplies, and time table! Latest logs include literature on perpetuating cultures with agar and narrowing down your work to your very own isolate strain!
-------------------- My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm! Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.
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FriedEgg


Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23384698 - 06/26/16 05:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: MS is fine. But start it on agar. I have had more ms than I care too in order to move my RW lineage forward. Still had some good results with it tho.
These are ms

when is that RW going to be ready?
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
How to post pics
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: maddchef]
#23384727 - 06/26/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddchef said: Heh try failing for years on end about 50% of the time and being too damned hardheaded and or stupid to figure it out.
235.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: FriedEgg]
#23384739 - 06/26/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Always innoc a test jar prior to mass inoculation when using multi spore.... it's common sense....
Never shake a grain jar after innoc....you will be able to spot the contamination upon germination (if present) if you shake then you can miss a hidden contamination....
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: HybridprX]
#23384743 - 06/26/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unlike with a LC that doesn't necessarily guarantee the cleanliness of the rest of the syringe. You could just have 1-3 CFUs(colony forming units) of bacteria in there that don't grow and don't want to break up and end up in different jars. That's not really enough to fuck a grow necessarily but that's not the point. That's different with LC because if there were ever 1-3 CFUs of bacteria, there would be hundreds or thousands by the time you used it anyway.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: FriedEgg]
#23384817 - 06/26/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: MS is fine. But start it on agar. I have had more ms than I care too in order to move my RW lineage forward. Still had some good results with it tho.
These are ms

when is that RW going to be ready? 
Well I will probably spawn the 4th gen clones Tues or Wednesday. I was thinking of taking it one or two more gen before starting to get em out.
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Leftfield420
bong toker



Registered: 02/26/16
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23384881 - 06/26/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's cool as hell man....one day I hope to understand how to create my own variety....I'm sure it will be years down the line
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Inocuole]
#23385001 - 06/26/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
maddchef said: Heh try failing for years on end about 50% of the time and being too damned hardheaded and or stupid to figure it out.
235.
Homo, this isn't a main thread lol back to 234
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: maddchef]
#23385022 - 06/26/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Results 1 - 25 of 235
I didn't even wanna reply but... you wrong son.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Inocuole]
#23385081 - 06/26/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Gotta lay off the benzos, I totally missed 234 ha
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: maddchef]
#23385091 - 06/26/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I didn't even see that you labeled it in the subject. That's gold..
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LadysKnight
Hello Ladies


Registered: 10/09/15
Posts: 1,672
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: maddchef]
#23385932 - 06/26/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddchef said: Heh try failing for years on end about 50% of the time and being too damned hardheaded and or stupid to figure it out.
...or 90%
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
Loc: out there
Last seen: 6 years, 22 days
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: LadysKnight]
#23386065 - 06/26/16 11:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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All I'm saying is.. All I've gotten so far on my agar is a variety of contaminants and no myc, while I've got some mycelium growing in my grain jars (albeit slowly as hell). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying fuck agar; Imma keep pumping out new plates every couple days till I get some good growth, but damn. Y'all make it seem so easy!! I think I am going to attempt to transfer a colonized grain onto agar soon as well as test my sterile tech with blank plates.
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Highwalker
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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The last thing to show up on this plate was cube myc, which was covered in bacteria at that point. I was able to salvage it, just took multiple transfers away from bacteria. Just because you see contams on a plate doesn't mean it's insta-trash.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Mad Season]
#23386164 - 06/26/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said:

The last thing to show up on this plate was cube myc, which was covered in bacteria at that point. I was able to salvage it, just took multiple transfers away from bacteria. Just because you see contams on a plate doesn't mean it's insta-trash.
Well said. Cleaning up cultures is the best part of agar.
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Mad Season]
#23386165 - 06/26/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ooh good to know! Thank you Mad. I assumed it would be too late for the myc to take foot with the other contams present. I thought it was like a transfer it fast enough before contams grow or they're done for. I have a pile of plates in a separate room waiting to be cleaned out so tomorrow I'll see if there's any myc that ended up germinating in the contamd plates before cleaning em.
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Highwalker
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
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Side note, if I were to open a nasty plate in an SAB to do a transfer, wouldn't the SAB be filled with many more nasty spores than normal so I would want to just do the single transfer, then take down my set up and clean it out. Rather than doing a lot of transfers at once.
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Highwalker
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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The spores get stuck to the wet walls of the SAB. If you do your transfer smooth it's really not an issue.
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23386180 - 06/26/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alrighty thanks Pasty. Perhaps I need to do that insence trick to check how much I disturb the air while I'm working or something. Practice makes perfect.
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Highwalker
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
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How long would you guys say is sufficient time to see if cube mycelium is going to germinate or if the contam will just keep growing? A week?
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Highwalker
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23386191 - 06/27/16 12:06 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
Mad Season said:

The last thing to show up on this plate was cube myc, which was covered in bacteria at that point. I was able to salvage it, just took multiple transfers away from bacteria. Just because you see contams on a plate doesn't mean it's insta-trash.
Well said. Cleaning up cultures is the best part of agar.
For real! Honestly I've never had a culture I couldn't clean up. The only times I couldn't get a healthy clean culture was when I get stubborn spores that don't germinate 
This is the reason I really don't get why people still argue against agar. I mean in the end I really don't care, but it just makes me think they just haven't done it yet, or done it right. Once you do it right, you're like, "so I'm doing an extra couple weeks for 100% clean inoculant? Sold."
@luke idk really depends on the contam. That plate had the myc germinate a good 2 weeks after the aspergillus germinated (which I almost transferred)
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Mycologist217
Frank's Disciple



Registered: 02/13/13
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Mad Season]
#23386883 - 06/27/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah just keep at it.....when I was first starting out with agar I kept on getting this:

But I seriously just started making about four new plates a day for a couple weeks and did transfers and spore inoculations just to practice my sterile technique....and before I knew it my colonizing closet looked like this:

But the most specially cool part about it is that in just about two-three months of introduction and practical application of agar I had managed to isolate my very own PE strain....pictures in my signature.....so seriously....stick with this....it's the best way.
-------------------- My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm! Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23387025 - 06/27/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
FriedEgg said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: MS is fine. But start it on agar. I have had more ms than I care too in order to move my RW lineage forward. Still had some good results with it tho.
These are ms

when is that RW going to be ready? 
Well I will probably spawn the 4th gen clones Tues or Wednesday. I was thinking of taking it one or two more gen before starting to get em out.
Hey Pasty, those RW in your Journal entry of your favorite grows are awesome. what exactly are they? you have a thread or something about them somewhere?
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: Mycologist217]
#23387143 - 06/27/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycologist217 said: Yeah just keep at it.....when I was first starting out with agar I kept on getting this:

But I seriously just started making about four new plates a day for a couple weeks and did transfers and spore inoculations just to practice my sterile technique....and before I knew it my colonizing closet looked like this:

But the most specially cool part about it is that in just about two-three months of introduction and practical application of agar I had managed to isolate my very own PE strain....pictures in my signature.....so seriously....stick with this....it's the best way.
i was one for 3 on my first agar :/ im hoping for good results this time around though. would you recommend grain to agar over MS to agar? and just out of curiosity, what about grain to LC?
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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DeadPhan



Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 5,260
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: MycoLoopology]
#23387164 - 06/27/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow. I'm slow. I wasn't even thinking grain to agar. Even though I've done it before. Wow. Sometimes my brain just don't work right. I just nocced up a bunch of agar plates with what I had left in my vendor ms syringes. However I did also have contam ed jars with a bunch of healthy myc. Damn. I could got things going a lot quicker. I can't believe I forgot to do that. Anywho, I'm finna do that tommorow now.
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Big Gulps! Alright! Well, See ya later! And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: mupetmower]
#23387204 - 06/27/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mupetmower said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
FriedEgg said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: MS is fine. But start it on agar. I have had more ms than I care too in order to move my RW lineage forward. Still had some good results with it tho.
These are ms

when is that RW going to be ready? 
Well I will probably spawn the 4th gen clones Tues or Wednesday. I was thinking of taking it one or two more gen before starting to get em out.
Hey Pasty, those RW in your Journal entry of your favorite grows are awesome. what exactly are they? you have a thread or something about them somewhere?
Here is the grow log. Is still ongoing.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20228521
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
Loc: out there
Last seen: 6 years, 22 days
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Quote:
lukehighwalker710 said: Ooh good to know! Thank you Mad. I assumed it would be too late for the myc to take foot with the other contams present. I thought it was like a transfer it fast enough before contams grow or they're done for. I have a pile of plates in a separate room waiting to be cleaned out so tomorrow I'll see if there's any myc that ended up germinating in the contamd plates before cleaning em.
Pasty, Mad, anybody else in this thread: would you mind looking at this plate from my trash pile? Not sure if it's a contam or myc https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23387773
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Highwalker
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MycoLoopology
Eye's wide open



Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 518
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Never not starting from agar again... [Re: DeadPhan]
#23390179 - 06/28/16 07:12 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeadPhan said: Wow. I'm slow. I wasn't even thinking grain to agar. Even though I've done it before. Wow. Sometimes my brain just don't work right. I just nocced up a bunch of agar plates with what I had left in my vendor ms syringes. However I did also have contam ed jars with a bunch of healthy myc. Damn. I could got things going a lot quicker. I can't believe I forgot to do that. Anywho, I'm finna do that tommorow now.
lol thats why having a community of minds always helps. glad i could be of some use :p
i cant wait to get mine going. thanks to mycologist207s(?) recommendation. im going to try grain > agar, agar > LC, agar/LC > Grain Bags/Jars
-------------------- Current Grow Log ^^My first grow log <3^^ Wish me luck.
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