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Bobhopeing
Stranger

Registered: 05/04/16
Posts: 16
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Pasteurization question?
#23381668 - 06/25/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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ok, so this is my 3rd summer doing this and i do the bucket tek. i have a 70 to 80 percent susses rate with monotubs. and this summer i already lost 6 out of 10 tubs and im fed up, im assuming its pasturizing problems because i know its not my jars. does propery pasturizing really make a 100% success rate and does it really improve everything. i would like to hear what a bunch of other people think.
and i just clean my tubs with soap and bleach, that should bo ok right? or should i wipe with isprol al.
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381702 - 06/25/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's your spawn. I bet.
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Bobhopeing
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: dankington]
#23381710 - 06/25/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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well that sux,lol,,,i didnt thinks so because this hasent happened till this year.i have awesoem resultes on 8 or 9 out 10 tubs in the past 2 years and this year has just thrown me for a loop.
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dankington
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381714 - 06/25/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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yeah I mean. It's like this: you can get away without wiping after you shit once in a while, but eventually you'll stain your underpants. Did you do spore syringe to grains?
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Mycologist217
Frank's Disciple



Registered: 02/13/13
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: dankington]
#23381738 - 06/25/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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What kind of substrate are you using? Coir? If so I would also be inclined to believe your spawn is the issue.
If your substrate is properly pasteurized and your spawn is clean you WILL NOT see a contamination before your first flush.....
It's hard to believe that the bucket tek would fail to properly pasteurize coir 6/10 times...which is why I also think you are working with contaminated spawn.
-------------------- My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm! Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.
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Bobhopeing
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Registered: 05/04/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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ok, i get what you guys are saying. the grains were just done the way i always done and the looked healthy white myc grew quick
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dankington
The Stranger




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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381764 - 06/25/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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not necessarily good though. There're visible signs to look for, fast isn't always good.
Did you do spore syringe to grain??
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Bobhopeing
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: dankington]
#23381794 - 06/25/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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yup, GT to wbs
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dankington
The Stranger




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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381799 - 06/25/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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that's the problem. Spores aren't clean, friend. So you're gambling going about it that way.
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Bobhopeing
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: dankington]
#23381802 - 06/25/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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got them from the depot, they came dirty then
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dankington
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381804 - 06/25/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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spores typically are. don't blame the vendor, please. When you grow mushrooms in a 100% sterile environment, then you can judge.
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Bobhopeing
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: dankington]
#23381812 - 06/25/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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well, im pretty darn clean when in do my wbs and when i inject jars...wasent blaming vendor, more of a question. dint mean to offend bro.
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dankington
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381816 - 06/25/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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no it's just that spores aren't clean. Try pastywhyte's easy agar tek to clean your growth up 
Or do BRF cakes.
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Bobhopeing
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: dankington]
#23381818 - 06/25/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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well im on to more so no worries, just wondering if it was pasturizing, well if its my wbs that sucks, is rye grass seed better to deal with,
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Mycologist217
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381827 - 06/25/16 06:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are not understanding what he is saying....no matter if you use rye or birdseed, or whatever...,,if you continue growing mushrooms with spores instead of clean mycelium produced with agar work, you will continue see contaminations....,spores come from mushrooms that are growing in open air...,,thus all spores are dirty....and all spore based grows will run the risk of perpetuating the filth into a grow ruining contamination....
-------------------- My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm! Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.
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Leftfield420
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Bobhopeing]
#23381885 - 06/25/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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No spore syringe is 100% clean....ever
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Paddington Bear is 100% correct. It's always a crap-shoot from syringe unless you start with petri dishes/pasty plates
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: Snazz]
#23382357 - 06/25/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's a lot of contam vectors with syringes even if you make them yourself. Best to always get a couple of clean transfers first so your not wasting time, money, and headaches. Save all of that for real life problems !
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383054 - 06/26/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Properly prepared spore prints are not dirty...
I can go straight from foil to syringe with 98% of the prints that I've received threw trade and my own.... if they're mishandled during use its the cultivator that interduces the contamination when making the spore syringe.
Always use a test jar if you don't have the means to use agar.
The benefit to agar is the ability to isolate a clean culture "if" the print/syringe is dirty.
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mupetmower
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: HybridprX]
#23383063 - 06/26/16 06:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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unless the print came from a fruit that was grown in sterile conditions, then its not going to be 100% clean. no matter how well your sterile technique is. and lets face it, i doubt many prints are taken in 100% sterile conditions. especially when youre a vendor who is having to put out tons of fruits to make all the prints. its just not happening.
that doesnt mean you cant use a syringe from a vendor. you just gotta clean it up on agar first if you want to ensure it' clean before inocing grain.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08 
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383121 - 06/26/16 06:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, I plan on giving away some prints in the near future so if op needs a replacement he can sterilize and reuse the vendor syringe but I doubt that it came dirty... it probably picked up a small amount of contamination during storage which sucks big time when that happens...
It could possibly be your moisture content in the bulk too causing you issues op.... it needs to be squeezed dry until next to no water drips out..
If you squeeze it and get huge water droplets it's to wet....i was making this mistake recently...now I press the hell out the bulk until no water drips out (once cooled) ... if you do it while it's still warm that's when it will become to dry....
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mupetmower
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: HybridprX]
#23383127 - 06/26/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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awww hell.. i thought it was supposed to have a few droplets drip out when you squeeze and handful.. just a few, though, not a lot. maybe thats why my coir/verm started smelling funny.. meeehhhhh
just weird because it started smelling weird after only 2-3 days, and coir is supposed to be very resilient. and im talking about my leftover coir, with no spawn in it, so i know it's not spawn =p
not sure what the hell is up. smelled kinda like wintergreen skoal, dip.. gross haha.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383140 - 06/26/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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How long has your bulk ingredients been sitting around? Also how are you storing them? Try to seal everything up and keep it isolated from your grow area. Also, coir and verm sitting around will absorb moisture from exposure and invite contams in. Ive never had a problem with spores from vendors on here being contamed. They usually do a good job, so thats the last vector that I consider if something contams. I would get new bulk ingredients and clean the hell out of everything, then start narrowing down where the issue is coming from. IE sterile procedures and pasteurization techniques. Agar helps eliminate the largest problem od not having clean spawn.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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mupetmower
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383165 - 06/26/16 07:15 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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the coir/verm was prepped in a PC, and then after i used half, i sealed the PC back up and it sat there for 2 days, then when i went to put it in a bag to put in the fridge, it smelled like that. so idk.. again, this was leftover stuff, that didnt have any spawn added to it. but idk.. weird, right? i mentioned this in another thread, so now i feel bad that it's getting talked about in both. ill keep it to this one.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383199 - 06/26/16 07:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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That shouldn't be a problem. What I was asking is how and where you are storing the bulk ingredients before you use them? How old I the coir and bag of verm? If you pc'd your bulk subs then you basically sterilized it killing the beneficial nutrients and organisms. Pasteurization doesn't reach that level of killing all endospores. Either way proper pasteurization should stabilize the mix, so agar work with spores is why we do that ahead of time to rule out contaminated spawn.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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mupetmower
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383209 - 06/26/16 07:41 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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oh, well the coir was in a brick, in sealed cellophane. sat it in my closet. got it about.... 3 weeks ago, i think. not sure how long it sat before i bought it, though.
and the verm was in a bag, that i got like 2 months ago, sitting in the same closet. bag was opened, and has tiny holes in it. came like that.
i just assumed the stuff was fine to sit like that, though, being so resilient.
then i just mixed a half brick with verm in PC, dumped boilign water in, put sealed lid, let sit for 2 hours, then let cool, then used half, and left the rest sealed in PC.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383232 - 06/26/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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That all sounds okay to me! As long as the stuff hasn't been sitting around outside for a year in a dirty garage or shed lol. Also I thought that you said you pc'd the sub which is a big no no. I guess the only other options is the spawn is contam or try switching up how you are pasteurizing subs with a different tek/method.
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mupetmower
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383237 - 06/26/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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nah, yeah i didnt PC it, just used it do mix and dump the boiling water in.
and the coir/verm that didnt have any spawn mixed into it is what smelled. so its not the spawn.
i mean, my pawn probably does have a little bacteria in it, but what im saying is that even the leftover sub, that had 0 spasn added, is what smelled. so i dont get it.
but yeah, ill try a different method to prep it next time. just hope my Big Gulps i made with that sub will turn out ok.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
Edited by mupetmower (06/26/16 07:57 AM)
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383247 - 06/26/16 08:00 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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coir does have a slight smell when pasteurizing to me, hard to describe it but it smells like burned soil or something.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383269 - 06/26/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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hmm. it did smell just kinda like warm dirt or something, when i finished the prep. but then when i opened it back up couple days later it was different. like kinda slightly like wintergreen dip or something. thats the closest i can get to the description. really strange.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383379 - 06/26/16 09:09 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hmm could be the coir vendor or manufacturer treated it with something. It's not that cheap ass eco-earth coir is it?
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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Mycologist217
Frank's Disciple



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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383386 - 06/26/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cheap ass Eco earth coir?
In my experience Eco earth provides a super quality product that performs admirably as a mushroom substrate.....I've literally never had a problem in the three or so dozen bricks of Eco earth I've gone through in the last couple years
-------------------- My LC Manual (With custom LC lid Tek) ~~ Required Mycology Supplies ~~ Agar Work Videos ~~ L G M AMU Q&A-NO SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL! KEEP THAT IN MIND! BUY THE TICKET: TAKE THE RIDE Check out my Retail Gourmet Mushroom Farm! Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.
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mupetmower
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no, it wasnt eco earth. i have heard mixed things about them.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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The one brick I bought was a pos full of too many thick husk strips and trashy looking. Ever since then I've been buying 350-400g bricks in bulk from a vendor that imports them from India. The coir seems a lot cleaner, packaged better, and pressed harder.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: CosmoKramer]
#23383428 - 06/26/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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i weighed my "650"g brick from 'nature's footprint'.. ended up being 580g
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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CosmoKramer
The Assman


Registered: 06/22/16
Posts: 555
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Re: Pasteurization question? [Re: mupetmower]
#23383471 - 06/26/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes they tend to vary in weight often that's why I've always weighed out my dry coir before expanding. Some teks are rather vague and just say a brick, which confuses new people on what the usual brick size is. I have a bunch of mini monos going now a days and I typically stick with the same spawn:sub ratios now after experimenting over time.
-------------------- "Get yourself some vitamin C with rose hips and bioflavonoids."
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