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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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R.D. Laing and schizophrenia
    #23372890 - 06/23/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Right about everything.

Quote:

If the human race survives, future men will, I suspect, look back on our enlightened epoch as a veritable age of Darkness. They will presumably be able to savor the irony of the situation with more amusement than we can extract from it. The laugh's on us. They will see that what we call 'schizophrenia' was one of the forms in which, often through quite ordinary people, the light began to break through the cracks in our all-too-closed minds.




The mad house is everywhere.

Laing = hero.

Schizophrenia and weed and psychedelics...

Weed is probably a total flush device for people on the brink of total release from the madness of this "world", this shit heap of a madhouse we have built.

If weed or psychs drive you crazy, take them over and over and over until you leave this forksaken fucking place.

Discuss.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlineviktor
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23372913 - 06/23/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Weed and psychs drove me crazy, however I had the insight to realise that the only way to become healthy was to become MORE, not less, crazy, which necessitated smoking more weed and doing more psychs.

Right now I feel really good.

Laing is the kind of genius who will never be fully appreciated because there are too few who will understand him. A lot like Leary and McKenna.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: viktor]
    #23373032 - 06/23/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Indeed my brother! Indeed!

Trust me man - if you're on medication, minimise it to daily functional level, then give it a few hours each night to just go fucking insane in the darkness, alone, let yourself flood with the horror.

Something happened to you. Something happened to all of us.

It will help all of us, intensely, if you flush it all.

Yes, go more crazy. Do it. Trust me. Crazy in a crazy world, is the answer.

Much love and respect! I will be with you. :heart:


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlinezzripz
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Posts: 8,292
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23373058 - 06/23/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

this is a favourite quote of Laing I have shared a lot

Quote:

"The main point of Laing's attack was that science, as it is practiced today, has no way of dealing with consciousness, or with experience, values, ethics, or anything referring to quality. "This situation derives from something that happened in European consciousness at the time of Galileo and Giordano Bruno", Laing began his argument. "These two men epitomize two paradigms - Bruno, who was tortured and burned for saying that there were infinite worlds; and Galileo, who said that the scientific method was to study this world as if there were no consciousness and no living creatures in it. Galileo made the statement that only quantifiable phenomena were admitted to the domain of science. Galileo said: "Whatever cannot be measured and quantified is not scientific"; and in post-Galilean science this came to mean: "What cannot be measured and  quantified is not real."  This has been the most profound corruption from the Greek view of nature as physis, which is alive, always in transformation, and not divorced from us. Galileo's programme offers us a dead world: Out go sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell, and along with them have since gone esthetic and ethical sensibility, values, quality, soul, consciousness, spirit. Experience as such is cast out of the realm of scientific discourse. Hardly anything has changed our world more during the past four hundred years than Galileo's audacious program. We had to destroy the world in theory before we could destroy it in practice."
(Uncommon Wisdom: Conversations with remarkable people, Fritjof Capra, page 139)




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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: zzripz]
    #23373226 - 06/23/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Oh man.

So beautiful, powerful.

Thanks!

---

Conspiracy and paranoia is definitely early life trust issues, evolved into function in an adult brain.

The child's world is beyond sacred. The strangest and most beautiful. The slightest cuts sever critical emotional organs.

Processing the damage is quite an experience.

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=ToxicMindTheory

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=KundaliniandSchizophrenia


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


Edited by beforethedawn (06/23/16 10:37 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23373857 - 06/23/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

and this:~~
http://www.maps.org/psychedelicreview/v1n6/01607lai.pdf
Quote:

  “What both Freud and Jung called “the unconscious” is simply what we, in our historically conditioned estrangement, are unconscious of. It is not necessarily or essentially unconscious.
I am not merely spinning senseless paradoxes when I say that we, the sane ones are out of our minds. The mind is what the ego is unconscious of. We are unconscious of our minds .Our minds are not unconscious. Our minds are conscious of us. Ask yourself who and what it is that dreams our dreams. Our unconscious minds? The Dreamer who dreams our dreams knows far more of us than we know of it. It is only from a remarkable position of alienation that the source of life, the Fountain of Life, is experienced as the It. The mind of which we are unaware, is aware of us. It is we who are out of our mind. We need not be unaware of the inner world…This need not be so. The process of entering into the other world from this world, and returning to this world from the other world,  is as “natural” as death and childbirth or being born. But in our present world, that is both terrified and so unconscious of the other world, it is not surprising that, when “reality”, the fabric of this world, bursts, and a person enters the other world, he is completely lost and terrified, and meets only incomprehension in others…One enters the other world by breaking a shell: or through a door: through a partition: the curtains part or rise: a veil is lifted. It is not the same as a dream. It is “real” in a different way from dream, imagination, perception of fantasy…The “ego” is the instrument for living in this world. If “the ego” is broken up or destroyed (by insurmountable contradictions of certain life situations, by toxics, chemical changes, etc.), then the person may be exposed to this other world…Our time has been distinguished, more than by anything else, by a mastery, a control, of the external world, and by an almost total forgetfulness of the internal world…Phenomenologically the terms “internal” and “external” have little validity. But in this whole realm one is reduced to mere verbal expedients---words are simply the finger pointing to the moon. One of the difficulties of talking in the present day of these matters is that the very existence of inner realities is now called into question.

…Sanity today appears to rest very largely on a capacity to adapt to the external world—the interpersonal world, and the realm of human collectivities.
As this external human world is almost completely and totally estranged from the inner, any personal direct awareness of the inner world already entails grave risks.
But since society, without knowing it, is starving for the inner, the demands on people to evoke its presence in a “safe” way, in a way that need not be taken seriously, etc., is tremendous---while the ambivalence is equally intense. Small wonder that the list of artists in, say, the last 150 years, who have become shipwrecked on these reefs is so long --- Hölderlin, John Clare, Rimbaud, Van Gogh, Nietzsche, Antonin Artaud, Strindberg, Munch, Bartok, Schumann, Büchner, Ezra Pound…




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23374642 - 06/23/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

except i have close relations for whom the gift has been a very hard one to endure.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23374714 - 06/23/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
except i have close relations for whom the gift has been a very hard one to endure.




exactly RL romanticized what for many is a hellish illness.

see for example the movie 'a beautiful mind'


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23374763 - 06/23/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I'm very close to it as well, and real schizophrenia is no blessing.  Anyone who says otherwise simply has not actually been in contact with it, or thinks they have some form of it when they don't at all.  This romanticization of mental illness is common, people thinking it's cool, and it's just ludicrous.  Having or dealing with mental illness is more like trench warfare than being spiritually liberated.  Especially schizophrenics spend a good deal of time in personal hells.

It is true that a lot of the gifted souls had or have mental illness.  Don't make the mistake of lauding this devastating disease because of that.  It's a silly misunderstanding.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23375030 - 06/23/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Trust me, been there. :smile:

Still kind of there.

Okay so here's my explanation -

Consciousness is ordered.

It enters bodies that can tolerate its order.

We are conditioned so primitively and poorly, that the neurological structures that function feeling themselves are compromised and the brain is destroyed slowly over time without rapid resolution, rapid disintegration of the conditioning.

As it tries to make, lets say, a state transformation, a QUANTUM energy state transformation, to another reality, only done in "notches", the conditioning and the transformation tear each other to pieces.

EVERYONE IS IN HELL. Schizophrenics ARE EXPERIENCING WHY WE ARE IN HELL.

Schizophrenics that break through, will be the heroes of our times.

Guess what I did

...

:heart:


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23375350 - 06/23/16 09:49 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
Trust me, been there. :smile:


Okay so here's my explanation -






Sorry, in spite of good intentions, the post is not an explanation of anything, it is simply rambling.

Incidently there are many differing 'schizophrenias".


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: laughingdog]
    #23375542 - 06/23/16 10:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The post makes far too many assumptions, or far too little connections.

Which is it?

What's the difference?

We're all talking shit.

Those who talk the best shit, say little to nothing. "He who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak."

:heart:


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn] * 1
    #23375637 - 06/23/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

great thread

can't really say much, i had a schizophrenic episode and it was pure terror, magic, and divinity
schizophrenics are like shamans who never asked to be shamans. during a psychotic break, one may experience total bending of reality and have one foot into the mystery of what lies beyond light and darkness


--------------------


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: laughingdog]
    #23376029 - 06/24/16 04:09 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
except i have close relations for whom the gift has been a very hard one to endure.




exactly RL romanticized what for many is a hellish illness.

see for example the movie 'a beautiful mind'





'A Beautiful Mind' was complete misleading BS which supports the pharmaceutical industry. It made out that the main character needed medication for rest of his life for 'schizophrenia', and that is a lie!

Quote:

Review of a Beautiful Mind

The story of Nobel prize winner John Forbes Nash, Jr. proves that psychiatrists are wrong about schizophrenia being a brain disease like Alzheimers and Parkinson's. The movie about Nash, a Beautiful Mind, starring actor Russell Crowe, is a misleading distortion of his story.

...In the motion picture about Nash, a Beautiful Mind, actor Russell Crowe does a superb job acting out psychiatry's beliefs about schizophrenia. Director Ron Howard and actor Russell Crowe followed what the consulting psychiatrists think schizophrenia is. They did not seek input from John Nash, however, even though they shot the film at Princeton where Nash teaches. Crowe met Nash once during the filming when Nash walked by to see what they were doing.

Sylvia Nasar, author of a Beautiful Mind, her award winning book about Nash, says that the movie is "a fictionalized version" of her book. (Newsweek, March 8, 2002, p. 52.) The film distorts Nash's true story in two significant ways. One is that he never had hallucinations (featured prominently in the movie), he had delusions (of getting messages from space.)

Second, the movie incorrectly portrays him as controlling his symptoms by taking medications. The truth is that at the age of sixty, over thirty years after his mental breakdown, all traces of his so-called schizophrenia disappeared with no medications. Nash wrote in 1995, "Gradually I began to intellectually reject some of the delusionally induced lines of thinking that had been characteristic of my orientation." And in 1996, "I emerged from irrational thinking, ultimately, without medicine other than the natural hormonal processes of aging."

...The well documented life of John Forbes Nash, Jr. shows that modern psychiatrists are wrong when they declare that schizophrenia is a brain disease like Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or multiple sclerosis. Many people with schizophrenia do not progressively deteriorate if untreated. Just the opposite, most improve over time. Many people diagnosed with schizophrenia, like Nash, have recovered on their own without any treatment, something never accomplished by a person with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or multiple sclerosis.

The movie, a Beautiful Mind, is one more example of how psychiatry's delusions about schizophrenia continue to be spread, unchallenged, through our main stream culture.

Little known facts and information about people who become "weller than well" after recovering from so-called schizophrenia can be found elsewhere on this website.




As the more astute of you reading this review will be aware, Hollywood is not a stranger to fabricating the truth!


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Offlineviktor
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: zzripz]
    #23376198 - 06/24/16 06:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Part of the problem with schizophrenia is that it can be really awesome. Frankly, it's an exhilarating feeling to be liberated from the mindless programming that the television matrix has enslaved everyone with.

Many other aspects of the condition are truly hellish, in particular the difficulty in getting anything ordered or organised.

So it's both awesome and horrible, which sounds confusing, which makes sense, because if it wasn't confusing it wouldn't be a mental illness.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: viktor]
    #23376931 - 06/24/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

did you read the second Laing quote carefully? He is saying we are 'out of our minds' meaning that we have been drilled to identify with a shallow part of ourselves which is the part set to fit-into-the-city. To be a role. This conditioning has been for many many centuries
Earlier it was to fit into the 'City of God':

Quote:

Augustine’s thesis depicts the history of the world as universal warfare between God and the Devil. This metaphysical war is not limited by time but only by geography on Earth. In this war, God moves (by divine intervention/ Providence) those governments, political /ideological movements and military forces aligned (or aligned the most) with the Catholic Church (the City of God) in order to oppose by all means—including military—those governments, political/ideological movements and military forces aligned (or aligned the most) with the Devil (the City of Devil).




So this sense of being this lost soul born into this life and to be part of a life or death battle between good and evil with the threat of losing and suffering 'everlasting damnation'. Just think on THAT pressure for a while and how that might seriously cause psychological/psychosomatic dis-ease!


From that toxic myth (which still however still affects people on an unconscious level) we are later to be literally herded into the myth of 'Godless' 'Man' and his materialistic city where we are to be cogs in a machine. No soul, no freewill, not even consciousness. That is where we at now

We as cogs having to run around like blue arse flies trying to survive, paying taxes for our 'betters' to go and drop bombs on innocent humans, men, women, children, babies, unborn babies, all life (war does not just affect our species). This is not a recipe for all kinds of psychological distress?


Edited by zzripz (06/24/16 11:16 AM)


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: zzripz]
    #23377594 - 06/24/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The organisational aspects of the illness -

Losing linearity in thought?

Because we are beings of pure intuition.

These are the strangest times.

If reality is the story of God, to stagnate it (since you can't control it) would produce the most violent and strange world.

From a certain perspective it's just out right demonic behaviour.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23377845 - 06/24/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

remember that issue about linearity of time next time you get stoned.
we'll talk


--------------------
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Offlineviktor
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: zzripz]
    #23379091 - 06/24/16 11:34 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
did you read the second Laing quote carefully? He is saying we are 'out of our minds' meaning that we have been drilled to identify with a shallow part of ourselves which is the part set to fit-into-the-city. To be a role. This conditioning has been for many many centuries




Sure, I agree with him. I was conditioned like that too, once, and when that conditioning started breaking down and I started to think freely, that was called schizophrenia by the authority figures around me.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Re: R.D. Laing and schizophrenia [Re: viktor]
    #23379712 - 06/25/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

redgreen -

Bro, I don't smoke! ahah! I've got some sweet hardware behind the skull, but I've done a fuck load of mushrooms, but you can just think your way into it. Also I think DMT put me onto some of this stuff.

So what I'm saying is, I'm always stoned, just sometimes a bit of a retard because I hit my head 10 years ago and only just figured out how to fix it (quite magically, really).

Higher consciousness is quite a reality. Consciousness itself is the only reality, so what would the idea be but to get higher and higher?

I'll be totally open to any discussion you'd like to have just give me at least a few days so all the brain lesions are fixed or whatever else has happened in there.

Still feels weird.

Peace all!

:sun:


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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