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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Fat shaming?
#23372152 - 06/23/16 01:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Does not the shame begin and end with the person unable to control their appetites or should out-of-control behaviors and addictions be applauded and celebrated?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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PaulMaster
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Registered: 05/25/16
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I certainly dont believe un-healthy behaviors - at least those that cannot be controlled - ought to be celebrated. I'm not of the mind to directly call someone out for being fat or otherwise unhealthy. But neither am I of the mind that the truth be held back for the sake of someones feelings being hurt.
There's a quote I really love - one of my all time favorites - from Stephen Fry: "So you're offended...so fucking what?"
Freedom of expression is far more valuable than a persons sensitivity.
As an aside, for pure arguments sake, I like to turn an offended persons argument around and use it against them, which creates the following retort to things such as fat shaming (which is simply "you cant say that because I'm offended by it"): Well, I'm offended that you're offended so you cant be offended any more.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Does not the shame begin and end with the person unable to control their appetites or should out-of-control behaviors and addictions be applauded and celebrated?
I think kicking somebody while they're down is lame as fuck. It's shameful, pathetic.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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legislate the morality of fat of course
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Where did I encourage that?
Recent advertisements in the UK for bathing suits pictured young, slender, fit women in bikinis and were forced to be removed because they made fat people uncomfortable.
Where does this nonsense end?
Should we tiptoe quietly around alcohol or drug addictions or just food addictions?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: legislate the morality of fat of course 
You jest, but that actually is what caused much of recent obesity - when so many foods went low-fat and then piled on the sugar to compensate for lost taste.

"Not my fault - I have poor genetics!"
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PaulMaster
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Registered: 05/25/16
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The sensitive have the right to move about the world as they see fit, just the same as anyone. If enough sensitive people get together and make enough noise to put up or take down billboards, then so be it. Influence can come from any source.
Where does it end? It doesnt. Its an infinite game, but everyone can play. Feel free to put up a billboard that says anything you like and leave it up in the face of all protest. If someone is offended, so what? Continue on.
Another quote I love comes from New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick: "Ignore the noise".
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Where did I encourage that?
Recent advertisements in the UK for bathing suits pictured young, slender, fit women in bikinis and were forced to be removed because they made fat people uncomfortable.
Where does this nonsense end?
Should we tiptoe quietly around alcohol or drug addictions or just food addictions?
If somebody is morbidly obese, they need help, not to feel ashamed about themselves. I don't think anorexic models should be shamed either. They need help too.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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PaulMaster
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Registered: 05/25/16
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Where did I encourage that?
Recent advertisements in the UK for bathing suits pictured young, slender, fit women in bikinis and were forced to be removed because they made fat people uncomfortable.
Where does this nonsense end?
Should we tiptoe quietly around alcohol or drug addictions or just food addictions?
If somebody is morbidly obese, they need help, not to feel ashamed about themselves. I don't think anorexic models should be shamed either. They need help too.
If a student is struggling with, say, algebra, ought other students not openly work on their more advanced calculus?
The two can co-exist. Though the struggling student may feel a little bad about himself, it wont be the end of the world. In fact, it may be just the kick in the behind he needed. Or if not, thats ok too. Maybe a softer form of motivation would be better. But those kids working on their calculus are not to blame or to be held back for something that is not only not their fault, but may not even be related to their goals in life. Working on more advanced maths is not shaming those who are not at the same level.
Edited by PaulMaster (06/23/16 06:40 AM)
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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I thought we were talking about shaming and condescending others, not holding back others. I don't know if OC's example is even relevant. The ads were literally forced to be removed, or the corporation felt it was in their best interest in making money to remove them?
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
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Loc: Daid
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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What if I shamed unemployed grown men who lived with their mother, in the most superficial, artificial place on earth, who couldn't even afford health insurance, and stalked innocent women who he fell madly in love with upon first sight? Doesn't sound like a very shroomy thing to do (not speaking of anyone in particular).
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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PaulMaster
Stranger
Registered: 05/25/16
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: I thought we were talking about shaming and condescending others, not holding back others.
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: I thought we were talking about shaming and condescending others, not holding back others. I don't know if OC's example is even relevant. The ads were literally forced to be removed, or the corporation felt it was in their best interest in making money to remove them?
Not sure if thats directed at my post, but I'm saying that the anti shaming movement is holding others back. By the same token, excelling in a given area, including physical fitness, is not shaming others. As an example, if you feel you can refute a given argument by displaying a higher level of skill in reasoning, are you mentally shaming the person with whom you are debating/arguing?
I think not, even if the losing side has their feelings hurt for losing a debate publicly.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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The second quote was not directed at you at all, I don't really think shaming anyone is holding anyone back. Try valuing diversity and all body types, be they viscerotonic, musculotonic, or cerebrotonic. I mean honestly, this is just judgmental bullshit.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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PaulMaster
Stranger
Registered: 05/25/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: The second quote was not directed at you at all, I don't really think shaming anyone is holding anyone back. Try valuing diversity and all body types, be they cerebrotonic, musculartonic, or endomorphic. I mean honestly, this is just judgmental bullshit.
I agree.
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
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There's a difference between not actively shaming people and this PC nonsense where we pretend everything is equal.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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I think people take on different sexual imprints and have wildly different sexual attractions, but somehow we've been conned into believing there some people are really more sexually attractive than others. Act like others, otherwise they might think you're weird .
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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If you want to bang fat people go ahead, but let's not pretend that obesity doesn't have negative health consequences which in turn negatively affects the health care system.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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I didn't say I wanted to bang obese people, but there is some wiggle room on the BMI and I find some people who are considered overweight quite attractive, some people wear their weight well. Incidentally, what does your point have anything to do with shaming them? Why wouldn't you want to help them?
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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