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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: qman]
#23389263 - 06/27/16 09:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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For the record, I'm a believer in cultural assimilation. It needs to be talked about on its own terms. That's a real thing and has real consequences, like we are seeing in Sweden, etc.
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qman
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#23389309 - 06/27/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Penelope_Tree said: For the record, I'm a believer in cultural assimilation. It needs to be talked about on its own terms. That's a real thing and has real consequences, like we are seeing in Sweden, etc.
Sweden has turned in a disaster, in fact they want a vote to potentially get out of the EU as well.
"Cultural assimilation" can only work when there's economic prosperity, done in very small amounts (not like in the US and EU), and when there's agreement for that policy in the host nation. None of those factors exist in any developed nation today, that's why it's been a complete disaster in every aspect.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: qman]
#23389335 - 06/27/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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For the record, I wasn'tusing Sweden as an example of successful cultural asimilitation.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: DieCommie]
#23390412 - 06/28/16 08:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: I never said you were not allowed to criticize Islam. Don't be making assumptions Commie.
Oh come on, don't wag your finger at me... What did you mean by this then; "...my point was: before you criticize what's out there, look in your own backyard." Because that sure look like you limiting my ability to criticize Islam, if not forbidding it. What backyard do I have to look in? I consider the entire solar system to be my backyard. If that is too broad then my family is my backyard. And in my family, we don't kill people for being gay. We don't punish women for being raped. And we don't put religion on an unassailable pedestal of respect.
Quote:
liquidlounge said: It says: of European Heritage.
I'm still curious who these Christians are. The graphic you put up is absolutely terrible. No numbers, no citations, emotional and inciting language. And it uses the worst graphical representation of data there can be - the pie graph. Its pure propaganda and its crap.
Hi DieCommie 
The picture I posted was in response to OC's post and the picture he posted, it had nothing to do with you.
Fine, call them caucasians. I know, the graph may not be accurate, but there is still a point to it. Caucasians have been more vile for the past generations, than muslims, this is a fact. That said, many modern muslim countries are not civilized.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: liquidlounge]
#23390752 - 06/28/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting aside.
The most publicly sexually repressed religion in the USA is Mormonism, and Utah has the highest level of porn downloads.
Likewise, the Muslim religion is very sexually repressed and the top nation for porn inquiries on search engines is from Pakistan, a 95% Muslim nation.
I have often said on here that people don't even believe what they believe in.
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qman
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: liquidlounge]
#23390775 - 06/28/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: I never said you were not allowed to criticize Islam. Don't be making assumptions Commie.
Oh come on, don't wag your finger at me... What did you mean by this then; "...my point was: before you criticize what's out there, look in your own backyard." Because that sure look like you limiting my ability to criticize Islam, if not forbidding it. What backyard do I have to look in? I consider the entire solar system to be my backyard. If that is too broad then my family is my backyard. And in my family, we don't kill people for being gay. We don't punish women for being raped. And we don't put religion on an unassailable pedestal of respect.
Quote:
liquidlounge said: It says: of European Heritage.
I'm still curious who these Christians are. The graphic you put up is absolutely terrible. No numbers, no citations, emotional and inciting language. And it uses the worst graphical representation of data there can be - the pie graph. Its pure propaganda and its crap.
Hi DieCommie 
The picture I posted was in response to OC's post and the picture he posted, it had nothing to do with you.
Fine, call them caucasians. I know, the graph may not be accurate, but there is still a point to it. Caucasians have been more vile for the past generations, than muslims, this is a fact. That said, many modern muslim countries are not civilized.
"Caucasians have been more vile for the past generations, this is a fact"
Hmm... no, that isn't a fact.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: qman]
#23390787 - 06/28/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Two world wars alone makes up for it.
If not, you're free to tell me something I didn't know.
Don't facepalm me, you're likely in the wrong here, anyway I'm excited to see your reply.
Edit: past generations may seem like a long time span, I should have written for the past 100 years.
Edited by liquidlounge (06/28/16 11:10 AM)
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qman
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: liquidlounge]
#23391123 - 06/28/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Two world wars alone makes up for it.
If not, you're free to tell me something I didn't know.
Don't facepalm me, you're likely in the wrong here, anyway I'm excited to see your reply.
Edit: past generations may seem like a long time span, I should have written for the past 100 years.
Having the capability to engage in large scale warfare doesn't mean they're immoral relative to the cultures that don't have the same capacity.
Does owning a tank and potentially using it for good make me more "vile" than the person with just a shotgun? No it doesn't.
I would wager the only reason those other cultures didn't do the same is because they were incapable of it, surely you don't think they're are morally superior, because we can see how they behave even without having any "big guns".
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: Hippocampus]
#23391693 - 06/28/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hippocampus
Same sex intercourse is legal in 20 majority muslim countries. So it's not a muslim thing across the board anyway.
Well their hate-filled holy book tells muslims to throw gays off of buildings - which happens in many Muslim countries.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: Spanishfly]
#23392781 - 06/29/16 12:32 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Travelers in Istanbul got a taste of Muslim peace and love today.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: qman]
#23392849 - 06/29/16 01:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: Two world wars alone makes up for it.
If not, you're free to tell me something I didn't know.
Don't facepalm me, you're likely in the wrong here, anyway I'm excited to see your reply.
Edit: past generations may seem like a long time span, I should have written for the past 100 years.
Having the capability to engage in large scale warfare doesn't mean they're immoral relative to the cultures that don't have the same capacity.
Does owning a tank and potentially using it for good make me more "vile" than the person with just a shotgun? No it doesn't.
I would wager the only reason those other cultures didn't do the same is because they were incapable of it, surely you don't think they're are morally superior, because we can see how they behave even without having any "big guns".
Let's be a bit practical, killing 10 people is generally more vile than killing 1 human being.
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zzripz
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: Spanishfly]
#23393041 - 06/29/16 04:18 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said: Hippocampus
Same sex intercourse is legal in 20 majority muslim countries. So it's not a muslim thing across the board anyway.
Well their hate-filled holy book tells muslims to throw gays off of buildings - which happens in many Muslim countries.
which 20 Muslim countries? name them?
Your second sentence is totally incongruous with your first!
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mt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: zzripz]
#23393407 - 06/29/16 08:29 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think he was quoting someone.
So op is worried about moderate muslims who are otherwise peaceful, jumping on the terrorist bandwagon because of general public resistance to their religion. This is the reasoning behind the politically correct agenda of the media and its cowardly. Fuck the moderates, they should be dropping islam in droves in light of all the attacks.
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qman
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: liquidlounge]
#23393422 - 06/29/16 08:39 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: Two world wars alone makes up for it.
If not, you're free to tell me something I didn't know.
Don't facepalm me, you're likely in the wrong here, anyway I'm excited to see your reply.
Edit: past generations may seem like a long time span, I should have written for the past 100 years.
Having the capability to engage in large scale warfare doesn't mean they're immoral relative to the cultures that don't have the same capacity.
Does owning a tank and potentially using it for good make me more "vile" than the person with just a shotgun? No it doesn't.
I would wager the only reason those other cultures didn't do the same is because they were incapable of it, surely you don't think they're are morally superior, because we can see how they behave even without having any "big guns".
Let's be a bit practical, killing 10 people is generally more vile than killing 1 human being.
Only if operating under the assumption all of the killings are unjustifiable in nature. Some killings are practical.
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mt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: qman]
#23393472 - 06/29/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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How many moderate muslims are really going to choose to become full fledged terrorists because of a little outsider intolerance anyways? The religion should be outright condemned, but were worried these moderates are going to flip the switch because some people might be looking at them suspiciously when boarding a bus? "You know, Ive had it with everyone thinking I'm a terrorist. I might as well just be one...yeah, Death to America!"
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: mt cleverest]
#23393549 - 06/29/16 09:26 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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My extended family is largely Roman Catholic. Not one dropped the faith with all of the pedophile priest reshuffling and the hiding and denying of crimes.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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More moderate Muslims integrating into society:
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qman
Stranger

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Fun driving conditions in France.
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lines
Stranger


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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: qman]
#23401120 - 07/01/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay OP I won't condemn islam. But do I have your permission do dislike it? And is it okay if I dislike blueberry muffins too?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: Don't fall in the trap of condemning Islam [Re: Hippocampus]
#23402104 - 07/01/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sober reflection would seem to remind us of what we already know in the back of our minds, namely:
1) labels are huge generalities. 2) societies are huge chaotic dynamic changing conglomerations with many ill defined pockets with shifting boundaries, that have both conflicting and common agendas.
3) so seemingly simple 'solutions' are unlikely to be relevant.
4) so seemingly simple 'solutions' are unlikely to be implementable.
5) so seemingly simple 'solutions' are likely to already be outdated.
for example there is, in some sense, no one "America"; the Hell's Angles and the Amish might almost as well be different counties, yet we speak as if there were such an entity as America.
We all wish there were easy solutions, and that we are the ones smart enough to see it, but unfortunately history would seem to show this is most likely fantasy.
Politicians, for example, take advantage of our heartfelt but irrational hopes for quick external solutions for deep systemic human problems. And vast numbers of people become highly emotional over concepts that have at best a very tenuous relationship to 'reality'.
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