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Ethric

Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 163
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
#23374097 - 06/23/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are wrong @healing..
Gymnopilus junonius in example, it's called "Laughing Cap" because besides psylocybin this mushroom contains bis-noryangonin and hispidine, which are structurally related to alpha-pyrones found in kava.
Different mushrooms can contain different chemicals.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: guyute22]
#23374253 - 06/23/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
guyute22 said: Anyone who has any experience whatsoever can identify these three strains. APE, AA+, KSSS. Easy.
Yassah yassah, love that KSSS pic. 
My KSSS:

They were awesome and interesting.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (06/23/16 04:03 PM)
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healing
Strangest



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: Ethric]
#23374349 - 06/23/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
guyute22 said:
Quote:
healing said: So if someone thinks that they can tell the difference between advertised varieties, or "strains" of psilocybe cubensis, they are deluding themselves. There is some other factor that might be causing the similarity or difference of trips, like the advertised name itself, the set, setting, or dosage, or in fact there is no discernible difference or "strain" similarity being experienced, and the perceived similarity or difference is just an artifact of the very assumption that all Golden Teachers are somehow similar applied post hoc.
I tend to want to agree, but there are some nagging facts that are hard to ignore.
Let me start with 3 pictures of 3 different strains (not my pics):



Anyone who has any experience whatsoever can identify these three strains. APE, AA+, KSSS. Easy.
I personally have grown all three strains, from spores, and observed the same phenotype as seen in the pictures, and based on spending (wasting) countless hours perusing threads on this website, it is quite easy to pick out these strains, and others, when grown in different conditions, around the world, on various substrates.
So WHY, can these unique genetic traits of appearance be selected, stabilized, and carried through spore print after spore print, but unique traits of potentcy, or alkaloid contnet, or trip type or whatever you want to call it, not be?
Those are exceptions in that they are readily identifiable by their visible characteristics, or their potency.
For a strain to be identifiable by its alkaloid profile, that alkaloid profile would have to be selected for by the person stabilizing the variety. This is not a common practice as it's considerably more difficult than selecting for a visible phenotype. The one well known variety for which this has been done is Penis Envy.
Quote:
Ethric said: You are wrong @healing..
Gymnopilus junonius in example, it's called "Laughing Cap" because besides psylocybin this mushroom contains bis-noryangonin and hispidine, which are structurally related to alpha-pyrones found in kava.
Different mushrooms can contain different chemicals.
That's true. Different species of mushrooms are known to produce different effects. I was specifically talking about varieties of psilocybe cubensis, not about other species of mushrooms.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (06/23/16 04:39 PM)
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
#23374983 - 06/23/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Organic molecules actually have a ton of variation with the same atoms. Chiral, isomers, etc.
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stupididiot
Stranger

Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 187
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: Snazz]
#23375215 - 06/23/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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the organic matter is going to have an effect on rate of oxidation etc too.
too many things, and then some (we haven't thought about).
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the "argument" is pretty null and void though, either you "think" you can tell a difference or you "think" you can't.
nobody is right or wrong... such is the nature of psychadelics, no ?
(i am glad i am one of the "think there is a difference" people; more fun for meeeeeeeeeeeeee (imho))
like i like to eat the mushroom (on wholism) and not try and quantify the molecular compounds etc...
have noted varying degrees in bodyload / trip "intensity" (as in "magic" not relative quantity of effect etc).
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BUT > having said that, if say you grew 3 "strains" of cubes at the same time > sampled all > THEN at the end, could you pick a "favourite" (i think i definately could)
so is that not suggestive, that there IS a difference ? (denoted by preferance).
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guyute22
Ugly Pig


Registered: 07/27/15
Posts: 504
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
#23376564 - 06/24/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said: For a strain to be identifiable by its alkaloid profile, that alkaloid profile would have to be selected for by the person stabilizing the variety. This is not a common practice as it's considerably more difficult than selecting for a visible phenotype. The one well known variety for which this has been done is Penis Envy.
Would you consider that perhaps, when stabilizing the strain (be it PE, GT, CRS, or whatever) that you are stabilizing ALL (or most) genetic traits of that strain? Why would there be little variability in visible phenotype, but still be greater variability in alkaloid profile?
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healing
Strangest



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: guyute22]
#23377406 - 06/24/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
guyute22 said:
Quote:
healing said: For a strain to be identifiable by its alkaloid profile, that alkaloid profile would have to be selected for by the person stabilizing the variety. This is not a common practice as it's considerably more difficult than selecting for a visible phenotype. The one well known variety for which this has been done is Penis Envy.
Would you consider that perhaps, when stabilizing the strain (be it PE, GT, CRS, or whatever) that you are stabilizing ALL (or most) genetic traits of that strain? Why would there be little variability in visible phenotype, but still be greater variability in alkaloid profile?
There would have to be some kind of selection for that trait taking place for that to occur.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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stupididiot
Stranger

Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 187
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: guyute22]
#23377452 - 06/24/16 12:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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because phenotype is an organisms visible effect of the environment on genotype.
genotype is genes, and humans can not see the genes, only get a "representation" of them, via a lab with analysis.
phenotypes are observed,
i am pretty sure, if you "stabalise all genetic traits", then the organism can not reproduce (as no genetics available for pairing, other then own, thus no chance at creating a next generation (??)).
ALSO, human science is still very very much, at the early stages of understanding genetics, like how we are finding new chemicals / interactions between things the human race has been studying for years.
like discovery of cannabinoid receptors etc > we still don't relatively have a clue about the ins and outs of the interaction, only a basic concept of how they cross the blood-brain barrier etc.
like the genotype is reference to the genes, if there are aload of combinations available (non-homogenous parents), then there can be an exponential amount of phenotypes.
"phenotype" is a very very basic, observable account of the organism (and how it responds to the environment, where as "genotype" is too complex to get started with unless you have a lab etc, unless used simply to denote the available genes (collectively) from parents / history.
i think...
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