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OfflineDrMushroom
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Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms
    #23365082 - 06/20/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Not just cubensis, but other mushrooms too such as pan cyans for example.
How is it there is so much difference in the types of effects people experience from a strain to strain basis, ontop of species, when all have the same active compound(s).
Is it non-active compounds that can dramatically change even between strains that alter the effects of psilocin? Because there is probably 100 different other chemicals in there that its not reasonable to put the effort into to identify between strains.

Ultimately psilocin is psilocin. But when you consume a certain cubensis strain compared to another by the psilocin content, its possible to have a speedy high on one while a more visual high on the other.
One idea i had was that the psilocin was present in numerous analogues, similar to how ephedra contains both ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, and different strains/species alter their ratios.

So whats going on exactly?


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: DrMushroom] * 1
    #23365211 - 06/20/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It's a good question, and I attribute it to small amounts of other actives, perhaps some that haven't ever really been characterized.  Mushrooms are excellent at producing chemicals and have a lot of genetic ability to do that.

I've had consistent yet very different trips from different strains of cubes.  And I've had trips of entirely different character to cubes from other species.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #23365450 - 06/21/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

There isn't a consistent difference in trips between different advertised varieties of psilocybe cubensis. The genetic variation within each "strain" is so wide that even an expert mycologist cannot identify from which "strain" a particular fruit body is grown. I think maybe you have a somewhat incomplete understanding of what a strain is. Every time a pair of spores reproduce sexually a new strain is formed. So if you were to buy a spore syringe that is advertised as the "strain" Golden Teacher, when you germinate the spores you actually produce thousands upon thousands of vastly genetically different strains of mycelium.

So if two different people grow two different isolates of the variety advertised as Golden Teacher, it's actually more likely for the two isolates to be relatively genetically different than similar. So different in fact that they could be just as similar to an isolate grown from the variety advertised as Cambodian.

This is where the saying, "A cube is a cube is a cube." common among experienced mycologists, comes from.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



Edited by healing (06/21/16 12:20 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23365570 - 06/21/16 01:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Experience says otherwise.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #23365606 - 06/21/16 01:48 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

And you have some kind of evidence that it's not just all in your head?


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23365905 - 06/21/16 06:12 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The fact still remains different mushrooms are known to give different types of trips, so, regardless of if two grows of a strain are different and infact DO give different trips contrary to what is typical for the strain, what is it then that attributes to the differences I at least have experienced, speedy euphoric stimulating high with minimal colors or visions, and colorful, intrusive hallucinations but at best only 30% of the same mental trip.
Or generalized, how is it i had a 30:70 visual:mental trip on one strain and 70:30 on another, even ignoring the strains, how is it that i had this at all from two mushrooms of the same ingredient.

Id like to know what exactly causes these differences if anyone knows.

At the heart of it id like to know how to refine a strain to a particular outcome, as i rather like the speedy euphoric trips to the visual ones.


--------------------

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Offlinecube talk
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23366034 - 06/21/16 07:39 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
And you have some kind of evidence that it's not just all in your head?




this isn't the same thing since i'm comparing cube to cyans but, it's still the same drug the same psylocibin is psylocibin explanation:

There's a certain "seriousness" to cyans, a certain level of very very in your face ( not in a mean way ) that I never get from cube trips


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: DrMushroom] * 1
    #23366786 - 06/21/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DrMushroom said:
The fact still remains different mushrooms are known to give different types of trips, so, regardless of if two grows of a strain are different and infact DO give different trips contrary to what is typical for the strain, what is it then that attributes to the differences I at least have experienced, speedy euphoric stimulating high with minimal colors or visions, and colorful, intrusive hallucinations but at best only 30% of the same mental trip.
Or generalized, how is it i had a 30:70 visual:mental trip on one strain and 70:30 on another, even ignoring the strains, how is it that i had this at all from two mushrooms of the same ingredient.

Id like to know what exactly causes these differences if anyone knows.

At the heart of it id like to know how to refine a strain to a particular outcome, as i rather like the speedy euphoric trips to the visual ones.




It's all in your head. You think the trip is going to be different so it is.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23366797 - 06/21/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

DrMushroom said:
The fact still remains different mushrooms are known to give different types of trips, so, regardless of if two grows of a strain are different and infact DO give different trips contrary to what is typical for the strain, what is it then that attributes to the differences I at least have experienced, speedy euphoric stimulating high with minimal colors or visions, and colorful, intrusive hallucinations but at best only 30% of the same mental trip.
Or generalized, how is it i had a 30:70 visual:mental trip on one strain and 70:30 on another, even ignoring the strains, how is it that i had this at all from two mushrooms of the same ingredient.

Id like to know what exactly causes these differences if anyone knows.

At the heart of it id like to know how to refine a strain to a particular outcome, as i rather like the speedy euphoric trips to the visual ones.




It's all in your head. You think the trip is going to be different so it is.




That's merely a hypothesis. You don't have proof of that either, and merely because your assumptions dictate that should be so, doesn't mean it is. It could be, but I have seen this type of thing debated so many times on psychedelic forums and the odd thing is that in the few cases where I have seen people do double blind placebo tests, they have still been able to tell the difference, so we can't rule out the possibility that there is something going on.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (06/21/16 12:59 PM)


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23366800 - 06/21/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

DrMushroom said:
The fact still remains different mushrooms are known to give different types of trips, so, regardless of if two grows of a strain are different and infact DO give different trips contrary to what is typical for the strain, what is it then that attributes to the differences I at least have experienced, speedy euphoric stimulating high with minimal colors or visions, and colorful, intrusive hallucinations but at best only 30% of the same mental trip.
Or generalized, how is it i had a 30:70 visual:mental trip on one strain and 70:30 on another, even ignoring the strains, how is it that i had this at all from two mushrooms of the same ingredient.

Id like to know what exactly causes these differences if anyone knows.

At the heart of it id like to know how to refine a strain to a particular outcome, as i rather like the speedy euphoric trips to the visual ones.




It's all in your head. You think the trip is going to be different so it is.




That's merely a hypothesis. You don't have proof of that either, and merely because your assumptions dictate that should be so, doesn't mean it is. It could be, but I have seen this type of thing debated so many times on psychedelic forums and the odd thing is that in the few cases where I have seen people do double blind placebo tests, they have still been able to tell the difference, so we can't rule out the possibility that there is something going on.




I don't have to provide proof of a negative. That doesn't make sense and it's not how logic works. If anyone has to provide proof it's the person who makes the claim that they can differentiate "strains" of mushrooms. So do you have a link?


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23366931 - 06/21/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Proof of a negative? Not how logic works? What is that supposed to mean?

I am saying, the idea that different strains cannot produce different effects is a hypotheses just like the idea that they can. You are more than welcome to hold to that hypotheses without providing proof, but that doesn't mean its correct.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23367174 - 06/21/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Liberty caps contain Phenethylamine along with psilocybin. I find D them much more euphoric and uplifting. Generally they are the strain I eat.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23367377 - 06/21/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SonicTitan said:
Liberty caps contain Phenethylamine along with psilocybin.




:waitwhatthehell:

Couldn't believe my eyes at first because I have never had heard of that before..
But a quick research led me to this intresting article. 20 years old, but in fact it seems that P.semilanceata produces PEA. Interesting for sure!

But PEA is rather inactive on it's own, isn't it? Most Trichocereus cacti also produce PEA (amongst other phens).

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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: Pandemoon]
    #23367385 - 06/21/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not too sure man, I just know that libs make me super happy even at higher doses hahaha


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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23367397 - 06/21/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I just ate 2g lib caps about an hour ago and already starting to giggle haha


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23367726 - 06/21/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Proof of a negative? Not how logic works? What is that supposed to mean?

I am saying, the idea that different strains cannot produce different effects is a hypotheses just like the idea that they can. You are more than welcome to hold to that hypotheses without providing proof, but that doesn't mean its correct.




You are making the claim that people can tell the difference between different "strains" of cubensis. I'm saying they can't. It's impossible to provide proof of a negative. In other words. It's impossible to prove that that they can't. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim, not the person disputing the claim. I'm disputing your claim that people can tell the difference between different "strains" of cubensis. Now you need to provide proof. That's how burden of proof works.

It's not like scientists form hypotheses and then just say, "Well you can't prove that it isn't supported, so therefore it must be supported!" That makes no sense.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23367775 - 06/21/16 06:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Oh and here's some evidence that makes your claim unlikely.

Quote:

healing said:
There isn't a consistent difference in trips between different advertised varieties of psilocybe cubensis. The genetic variation within each "strain" is so wide that even an expert mycologist cannot identify from which "strain" a particular fruit body is grown. I think maybe you have a somewhat incomplete understanding of what a strain is. Every time a pair of spores reproduce sexually a new strain is formed. So if you were to buy a spore syringe that is advertised as the "strain" Golden Teacher, when you germinate the spores you actually produce thousands upon thousands of vastly genetically different strains of mycelium.

So if two different people grow two different isolates of the variety advertised as Golden Teacher, it's actually more likely for the two isolates to be relatively genetically different than similar. So different in fact that they could be just as similar to an isolate grown from the variety advertised as Cambodian.

This is where the saying, "A cube is a cube is a cube." common among experienced mycologists, comes from.




--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



Edited by healing (06/21/16 06:21 PM)


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: healing]
    #23368360 - 06/21/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

quoting yourself doesnt count.
In any case its not the topic here, i want to find out about the difference between trips on mushrooms, the compounds responsible. The strain as you say is now for as far as you can be trusted on the subject irrelevant, but, we only know of one ingredient responsible for the psychedelic effects, yet trips differ in type not intensity, and i want to find out what it is, if not between strains then between growths, that causes different trips.

One thing that is inarguable is that trips are not the same between all cubes (even if the same strain) and dont differ solely by intensity.


--------------------

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Offlinehealing
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23368507 - 06/21/16 10:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Set and setting.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Why is it there is such consistent differences in trips between cube strains or psilocin shrooms [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23369355 - 06/22/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The known species of psilos out there all differ in their ratio of psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin and N-baeocystin.
There is no scientific evidence about that topic so we all can only speculate, but hey, I do believe that the ratio of these substances is responsible for the "slightly different" effects in a way we just don't know yet.

Libertycaps contain lots of psilocybin but hardly any psilocin. Woodlovers like P.azurences or Ps.cyanescens, and also libertycaps, contain massive ammounts of baeocystin compared to P.cubensis or Panaeolus ssp., wich lack this substance completly.

--

Healing is right, "a cube is a cube". But that doesn't mean they don't differ in effects.
Besides the ratio of their compounds think of how they look and feel. Some cube-strains grow large but rather soft mushrooms, others use to grow small but thick with (very!) hard stems and so on. Means each strain takes a different time to digest or to set free the actives when eaten.. If you're seriously arguing this is relevant! :tongue2:

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