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OfflineWill7401
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All white not always all good
    #23364719 - 06/20/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Just putting this out there. i had 14 qt jars of GT beautifully colonized and about to be spawned. When I went to break them up on a bike tire they wouldn't break up. I mean I banged the shit out of them and a thin layer of white came off the outside and the whole thing maybe got a line or two of disassembly but beyond that, I couldn't get them to separate. I got on here and looked around and got mixed reviews. After about an hour I went back to them and already trich revealed itself. Every single one of them. Also, the sides and bottom of the grain looked fine but the tops all had white cotton like puff across it. IDK if that makes a difference but I thought I would put my experience out there. I have had success at every stage so far except for colonizing a mono fully and fruiting. Contam every time. It's in my spawn, I know. And for the record I was using two layers of micropore tape as a filter on all of them. It's tyvek from here on out. So here you all go. Hope this helps someone in the future.


--------------------
Love and Light to us all. Namaste


Edited by Will7401 (06/21/16 09:22 AM)


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23364760 - 06/20/16 07:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

What makes you think its trick?  White cotton-like fluff sounds an awful lot like mycelium to me.  Better be careful man, it might get infected with mushrooms next....


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OfflineEasyriding123
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23364809 - 06/20/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

He said after he broke them up trich revealed itself.


How old were the jars? I've had them bruise blue if I wait a while to spawn them.


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OfflineWill7401
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23364814 - 06/20/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well, the trich showed up about an hour after I tried to break them up. I don't necessarily know if the white fluffy is trich or not. I was trying to give as much info as possible.


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OfflineEasyriding123
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23364821 - 06/20/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I thought you meant it turned green after you shook it. So you shook it and it fluffy white? Can you take some pictures


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Easyriding123] * 1
    #23364865 - 06/20/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Any time a jar is that hard to break up it's no good.  You can break up a healthy jar of cube spawn against your palm if you wanted to.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
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OfflineKenetic
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23364945 - 06/20/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

That's not true.  I have to tap the jars for a while to break them up and they spawn to coir without a prob.  After a few taps the "cake" will get a good crack in it and I just break it up enough to get it out of the jar, then crumble it with my hands while I mix with cvg.  And its almost always fluffy white. 
If you keep messing with your spawn it won't like you much.  I leave my jars alone until I see about 30℅ then I shake and that's it until its done.  If a jar is lagging behind the others toward the end I'll shake it again, but it doesn't happen often. 
If your jars are done spawn them now.  You don't have to consolidate spawn.  And I doubt you have trich


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23364976 - 06/20/16 08:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yes it is true, most all spawn is bacterial to a certain degree, jars heavy with bacteria are hard to break up, just because it's bacterial dosen't mean it won't colonize bulk just fine and fruit, it will but yield will be affected and may weaken the myc enough for mold to take over eventually.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
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OfflineKenetic
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23365001 - 06/20/16 08:39 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I would fruit it.  I think you are just bugging out about your grow.  Fruit that shit.


--------------------
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OfflineMyko Fanatikos
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23365008 - 06/20/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
Any time a jar is that hard to break up it's no good.  You can break up a healthy jar of cube spawn against your palm if you wanted to.




Not at all my good man, every jar I've ever had I've had to beat like it robbed me.

I use my weight bench and not a tire though. I recently broke up 2 half gallon jars and it wasn't as easy as smacking it against my palm.

It sounded like I was killing someone upstairs :tongue2:


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23365034 - 06/20/16 08:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds like you guys have a bad case of dirty spawn denial
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Cubensis mycelium is usually not that hard to break up unless it's contaminated with bacteria.  If you've banged it against a tire or phone book and it's not breaking up, you're probably screwed.  Be sure to give it the smell test before using if you dig it out.  Definitely don't G2G with it.
RR


Quote:

MudaFuka said:
That should be fine. I mix my spawn and sub with my bare hands so I cant see a knife or spoon being a problem but if your jars are that hard to break up they may already be contaminated.


Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
If it's hard to break up, it's probably bacteria unless you have enough popped grains  to make everything sticky



So unless it's a really old jar of spawn or your grain prep sucks it's bacteria:shrug:


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23365044 - 06/20/16 08:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Damn, good job.  All my jars are like that and I don't have probs until after the second flush. 
I do my grain prep just like RR. 
I still say fruit it.


--------------------
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OfflineMyko Fanatikos
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23365073 - 06/20/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I've never had a contaminated man. No denial here, if it was so easy why would RR recommend a bike tire?

I don't see anything about smacking it with your hand in any of those quotes.

I also said I used my weight bench, a little padding but not much give. It makes things a little harder. I fill my jars to the brim as well so there isn't much room to get it started breaking up.


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23365091 - 06/20/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Uh because it's dangerous to smack glass against your hand? Lol no ones recommending to break it up that way, just saying clean spawn is easy to break up. If you say you never had a contamination either your a complete noob or a liar, everyone gets contaminations if they have done more than a handful of grows. Still might get some fruits from it, but the fuzzing up in an hour is concerning, no way cube myc is recovering from a shake that fast. Could case and fruit out of the jar.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Invisibleweetsie
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23365094 - 06/20/16 09:15 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
White cotton-like fluff sounds an awful lot like mycelium to me.




There are contaminants that have thick white mycelium though. In my experience they smell bad and has a spongy texture that is impossible to break apart by whacking the jar, no idea what its called though.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: weetsie] * 1
    #23365183 - 06/20/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Throw some on agar and fruit the rest.  Super hard cube spawn is likely meshed with bacteria.  Characteristics are way different.


Fluffy myc is likely a response to higher O2. It's increasing surface area to absorb more for the colony.  It's also at the edge of the substrate. Each top kernel will attempt radial growth looking for more grub

Pics always help though :shrug:


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OfflineMyko Fanatikos
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23365258 - 06/20/16 10:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I've had cobweb twice and some other nasty shit, all my clean jars were no daisy when it came to breaking the up sir.
Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
Uh because it's dangerous to smack glass against your hand? Lol no ones recommending to break it up that way, just saying clean spawn is easy to break up. If you say you never had a contamination either your a complete noob or a liar, everyone gets contaminations if they have done more than a handful of grows. Still might get some fruits from it, but the fuzzing up in an hour is concerning, no way cube myc is recovering from a shake that fast. Could case and fruit out of the jar.




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OfflineWill7401
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23365321 - 06/20/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry if I confused anyone. I only have one pic for now. So here's what went down. All the jars made on 6/1 were beautiful and white on the bottom and all the way around. On the top of the grain was a really bright white fluffy growth. I wasn't really saying that part was contam, just giving data. Now, when I went to hit them on the tire I had to bang the shit out of them with little to no results on most as far as breaking up goes. What did happen with these was a thin layer of white was removed from the outer surface area and the entire thing could now slide up and down in the jar. Three of them broke up a little but damn my arm got tired. So I left them alone for about an hour. When I came back to them, there were green spots growing on the ones that never broke up and the ones that did had green growing vigorously on the loose grain. What I'm saying is it wasn't there during or right after the assault. An hour later, Kaboom, green stuff everywhere. It happened fast. I'm glad this happened though because at least now I know that bright white spawn doesn't necessarily mean clean spawn. If the contam reveals itself that fast after breaking up the grain, I may just start breaking it up and walking away for half a day before I rehydrate the grain and spawn. Everything I have spawned to date has contaminated with  thin, grayish white fluff that spreads quickly and then turns into ugly green shit, once it has been spawned, colonized and cased. I was thinking this was being introduced by the casing layer but now I see that it very well could've been my spawn even though it looked clean. Here's the pic. I'll try to get some more to you guys soon. This pic is pre-attempted breakup, btw. My shrooming expedition that I posted in the Identification forum ate up a lot of my memory and I just haven't deleted the photos yet after posting them here.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23365436 - 06/21/16 12:03 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
In my experience, you can SMELL contaminants on the grains, but many of the common molds that occur also have a white mycelium that can be difficult to distinguish from cubensis myc.




What does it smell like? cubensis mycelium smells like earthy mushrooms while contaminants typically smell very unpleasant.

The rhizomorphs in those jars though... really looks like healthy mycelium to me, sucks if they are contaminated.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: NDStepp84] * 1
    #23365456 - 06/21/16 12:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
Any time a jar is that hard to break up it's no good.  You can break up a healthy jar of cube spawn against your palm if you wanted to.



:whathesaid:

If it's hard to break up no good. I've never had a healthy jar I couldn't shake without a problem just using my hands and palm. In 3 years I've never once broke a jar at all even the ones I had to bang, and the ones I had to bang no good


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23365866 - 06/21/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Will7401 said:
Sorry if I confused anyone. I only have one pic for now. So here's what went down. All the jars made on 6/1 were beautiful and white on the bottom and all the way around. On the top of the grain was a really bright white fluffy growth. I wasn't really saying that part was contam, just giving data. Now, when I went to hit them on the tire I had to bang the shit out of them with little to no results on most as far as breaking up goes. What did happen with these was a thin layer of white was removed from the outer surface area and the entire thing could now slide up and down in the jar. Three of them broke up a little but damn my arm got tired. So I left them alone for about an hour. When I came back to them, there were green spots growing on the ones that never broke up and the ones that did had green growing vigorously on the loose grain. What I'm saying is it wasn't there during or right after the assault. An hour later, Kaboom, green stuff everywhere. It happened fast. I'm glad this happened though because at least now I know that bright white spawn doesn't necessarily mean clean spawn. If the contam reveals itself that fast after breaking up the grain, I may just start breaking it up and walking away for half a day before I rehydrate the grain and spawn. Everything I have spawned to date has contaminated with  thin, grayish white fluff that spreads quickly and then turns into ugly green shit, once it has been spawned, colonized and cased. I was thinking this was being introduced by the casing layer but now I see that it very well could've been my spawn even though it looked clean. Here's the pic. I'll try to get some more to you guys soon. This pic is pre-attempted breakup, btw. My shrooming expedition that I posted in the Identification forum ate up a lot of my memory and I just haven't deleted the photos yet after posting them here.




Bruising


--------------------
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OfflineKenetic
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23365884 - 06/21/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I don't understand what the problem is.  Looks great, you oviously have a healthy jar, and the green is just bruising.  People make such a big deal about nothing.  Just spawn it dude


--------------------
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OfflineWill7401
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: weetsie]
    #23366170 - 06/21/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

What does it smell like? cubensis mycelium smells like earthy mushrooms while contaminants typically smell very unpleasant.

The rhizomorphs in those jars though... really looks like healthy mycelium to me, sucks if they are contaminated.




That's the thing. When I shake them they smell like mushrooms, all of them that I spawn. But once they get in the mono and begin colonizing, the smell changes into something like caramel or really ripe bananas then the greyish white growth starts on the surface followed by green mold. As for the rhizos, tell me about it. I'm all, hell yeah, look at that beautiful healthy myc.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic] * 1
    #23366177 - 06/21/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
Sounds like you guys have a bad case of dirty spawn denial




:whathesaid:

hard to break up = bacteria, doesnt mean shit will turn green or not give you shrooms only means you got bacteria lowering BE making your stuff fight contams.

not all white is right, spot on OP, its something we spend a LOT of time teaching new guys here.
trich is white before it sporulates.

Quote:

kenetic said:
People make such a big deal about nothing.




considering how healthy spawn is alpha omega in this hobby I wouldn't call it making a big deal out of "nothing". its everything!

Bacteria or mold doesnt necessarily smell, sometimes you can smell the bac and know its dirty but even when it smells clean that's no proof it is.


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OfflineWill7401
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23366243 - 06/21/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well spacechildo, I can't do anything about other folk's experience but I know I have UTFSE, as suggested by so many, and I am putting my own experience with what is happening up against what others have shared already. I'm not imagining anything. I've seen the blue bruising before. This is GREEN, the jars smell like mushrooms, not bacteria, the grain was hard as hell to break up, some wouldn't at all. This is the first time I have ever broke them up but walked away for an hour or so. I usually just break them up then soak, drain and spawn. In my newb opinion this is not a disaster but a very important learning experience. If it has no adverse effect on the spawn, I believe I will be breaking them up and leaving them for half a day or so before soaking to see what happens. That's much more efficient than waiting for it t reveal itself in the mono. Whatever the contam is it's very aggressive and revealed itself very quickly, almost like all it needed to thrive was shaking and oxygen. Thanks for the input friend. I'm away from the lab for a few days to reset. When I get back I'll take more pics for you. I understand how important pics are. Thanks everyone.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23366251 - 06/21/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure if that was a response to me or not?
I'm telling you hard to break up = bacteria, I havent said anything about blue or green colors.

seeing how grains recolonize (or not) is smart, yeah, but a few hrs wont do it you'd need at least a day to see how it fares.

take pics of the recolonization, any bacteria present will show very clear before the jar turns all white again.


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OfflineMyko Fanatikos
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23366257 - 06/21/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)




I shook it almost 48 hours ago. You think it's so easy when they are this full?


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23366261 - 06/21/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

haha, just leave a couple inches on the top, if it makes it that hard to do.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23366265 - 06/21/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:



I shook it almost 48 hours ago. You think it's so easy when they are this full?




yeah that's bacterial, can still produce fine tho would just do so much better without the bacteria there.

and yeah you shouldn't fill your jars more than 2/3 -3/4 full.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23366275 - 06/21/16 09:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, like has been said, if you can't use your hands to break it up, it's suspect.

And what this really means is that your BE will be reduced significantly. All of you saying you've had great success with impossibly tough to break spawn, aren't factoring the final weight from your spawn. If you aren't getting at least 1 dry oz. per qt. and closer to 2; chances are you have dirty spawn.

No one said it wouldn't work at all, it's just that we try our damnedest to make sure our spawn is as clean as possible. That's why we do all that agar work.

Also;

Quote:

spacechildo said:
you can use smell to confirm bacteria,
but never to disprove it.




Source


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23366283 - 06/21/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I've never heard of mold showing up that fast, in an hour, after shaking. I guess it's possible though, IDK everything. Are you sure it's not blue? Maybe blue-green? If you're a dude, you may be seeing green when it's really blue.

If it's definitely green, then toss it.

You can't always smell contamination and if your jars are always bacterial but you still get fruits, then you may not know what a clean jar really smells like and some people are more or less sensitive to smell than others. If you are definitely seeing green mold, then you should be able to smell that it's off.

If you are putting spores on grains, I recommend switching to clean culture made on agar.

You may also benefit from increasing your PC time.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23366289 - 06/21/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

wait, why if youre a guy you might see green when actually blue? just curious haha. never heard that guys and girls see colors differently, or that one can have partial color blindness or something?


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23366291 - 06/21/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, it was a response to your post but with references to other posts. Didn't mean to confuse you. So it's cool to leave it for a day after breaking up before soaking it. Cool. Is this a common practice amongst TC's? If it causes no harm then it only makes sense to add this step to my method. Especially considering my record so far with contam. Someone else mentioned the blue bruising. This is not blue bruising.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23366300 - 06/21/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It's pretty common to shake suspect jars at 100% to see how they recover.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: dankington]
    #23366307 - 06/21/16 09:37 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Throw it away then for all I care.  If it turned green an hour after you shake its bruising. 
Do you pasteurize your sub or sterilize it?


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23366311 - 06/21/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Good luck


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23366317 - 06/21/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well I suppose I learned something new today, the jar in my last post was made with a clean culture grown out on agar.

I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?

All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.

All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23366319 - 06/21/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Will7401 said:
Yes, it was a response to your post but with references to other posts. Didn't mean to confuse you. So it's cool to leave it for a day after breaking up before soaking it. Cool. Is this a common practice amongst TC's? If it causes no harm then it only makes sense to add this step to my method. Especially considering my record so far with contam. Someone else mentioned the blue bruising. This is not blue bruising.




Then toss it. You are wasting your time and materials.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23366330 - 06/21/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:
Well I suppose I learned something new today, the jar in my last post was made with a clean culture grown out on agar.

I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?

All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.

All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?




Sometimes you have more flushes because it wasn't able to produce to it's potential in the first two flushes. This can be due to sketch spawn or substrate, or it could be due to less than optimal growing conditions. Just know there are several factors at play.

Also you should really up your PC time to 90minutes.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23366342 - 06/21/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:
I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?

All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.

All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?




you can see its bacterial in the way its trying to recolonize the millet on the bottom of the pic but rather grows fuzz around it than colonize it.
If it was healthy it wouldn't look like that after 48hrs.

also 50mins PC time is pushing it, 90-120mins @15psi drasticly reduces bacteria colonies.

bacteria doesnt always mean you'll get contams, it just means you myc is spending a lot of energy fighting the bac instead of focusing on producing mushrooms.
If you get 4 good flushes you should try and better the fruiting conditions, more FAE would be the first thing I'd look into.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23366344 - 06/21/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I originally started with MS with no success. I quickly learned the Pasty Plate agar tek and have been using that ever since. It was suggested that I go 2 hours for PC instead of 90 so I started doing that as well but not these jars. Also, I was using tow layers of micropore tape as a filter but have now switched to tyvek. These jars had the tape. My technique is improving over time. I stay open minded to any suggestion.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: mupetmower]
    #23366359 - 06/21/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mupetmower said:
wait, why if youre a guy you might see green when actually blue? just curious haha. never heard that guys and girls see colors differently, or that one can have partial color blindness or something?




Men are statistically more prone to being color-blind or see shades differently. My step dad couldn't see blue and he saw red and green as the same.

Apparently that's not the OP's issue.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23366371 - 06/21/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:
I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.





A minimum of 90 mins at 15psi is recommended. I've started doing 120 mins


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23366395 - 06/21/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Will7401 said:
I originally started with MS with no success. I quickly learned the Pasty Plate agar tek and have been using that ever since. It was suggested that I go 2 hours for PC instead of 90 so I started doing that as well but not these jars. Also, I was using tow layers of micropore tape as a filter but have now switched to tyvek. These jars had the tape. My technique is improving over time. I stay open minded to any suggestion.




Yes, micropore tape sucks.

You may not be using clean culture. You have to get better at identifying contams on agar and transferring away from it. You also need to make sure you aren't contaminating the agar while working. Avoid moving your hands over open sterile media and do your work toward the back of your SAB.

As I said earlier, if you have green mold in your jar, toss it. No good will come of it.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23366408 - 06/21/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

This may come out wrong but I'm struggling to believe any of these jars showed green mold 1 hr after shaking up,
left one's got a fair bit bacteria, sure, but still not mold. and green is usually the molds spores which I cant understand how it got to in a grain jar that quickly.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23366447 - 06/21/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

That's why I kept pressing about the color. An hour is pretty damn fast for mold, IME. Even when I see mold on something already, it just doesn't grow that fast.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23366454 - 06/21/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The mold could easily have sporelated in the middle of the jar and it was
not visible until it was shaken up and op just didn't notice at 1st glance
after shaking. I have seen that before for sure.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23366542 - 06/21/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

im literally just chiming in here because someone mentioned smacking the jars using your hand. not that he/she was advocating for it, but i wanted to add that i once had a jar with myc that didnt want to break up(definitely bacterial contam in that fucker of a jar)...

anyway i got a bit angry and i started slamming my palm/hand all over the jar; and while the myc still hadnt broken up, the glass jar HAD. all over my hand and arm.. lots of cuts, lots of blood; still have the scars.

use a tire. if it doesnt break up on a tire? its probably got bacterial contam. or ive noticed if i let jars sit too long they get harder to break up as well. but either way, dont get angry and use your hand :p i learned my lesson the hard way.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: MycoLoopology]
    #23366572 - 06/21/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If it doesn't break against your palm, it's probably bacterial. If you start really going to town, don't use your hand. :shrug:

Only jar that has broken in my hand was one I was shaking up too soon after PC'ing. Luckily I was holding it by the lid.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: dankington]
    #23366591 - 06/21/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If it doesn't bust up, just scoop/flake it out.  Or let it consolidate and shrink a bit,  then skewer it and pull.


I don't like the idea of beating jars,  or bruising / cutting myself much


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23366742 - 06/21/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:
I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?

All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.

All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?




you can see its bacterial in the way its trying to recolonize the millet on the bottom of the pic but rather grows fuzz around it than colonize it.
If it was healthy it wouldn't look like that after 48hrs.

also 50mins PC time is pushing it, 90-120mins @15psi drasticly reduces bacteria colonies.

bacteria doesnt always mean you'll get contams, it just means you myc is spending a lot of energy fighting the bac instead of focusing on producing mushrooms.
If you get 4 good flushes you should try and better the fruiting conditions, more FAE would be the first thing I'd look into.



:whathesaid: also once you get a huge trich outbreak, let's see you get 4 flushes with that POS spawn jar. I used to open air g2g bacterial af jars thinking they were clean and got a couple flushes out of them. Now that trich has been unleashed in my house, I don't even bother with jars that make me even the slightest concerned.


Also.. yeah myc can bruise green.

that is bruising and it has no blue to it.


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Edited by Mad Season (06/21/16 12:39 PM)


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Mad Season]
    #23366818 - 06/21/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Lol I'll cross the green bridge of trich when I get to it. With 4 cats and a dogs worth of hair floating around my house I'm surprised I haven't gotten more than cobweb so far :tongue2:

If I see anything white that even looks close to trich I'll have that tub sitting outside in a heartbeat.

One of my first tubs looked suspect and it went straight to the back porch.

Thanks for the info guys, without all you I wouldn't know my ass from a hole in the ground lol


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23366838 - 06/21/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:
I wouldn't know my ass from a hole in the ground lol




You gave me that impression lol.  Keep trying, you'll figure out what works for you eventually.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23366927 - 06/21/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Concerning how mycelium should look, I am FAR from an expert. Almost every time someone says a jar looks bacterial I cannot see anything wrong with the jar. I always spawn jars if they are white with no discoloration, and smell good when opening. Jars break up easily in my hand as well... well usually, except for that one time I had one bust on me and cause some blood to spill.

OH and I collected the mycelium that busted all over the dirty carpet, blood and all, put it inside a pan and fruited it, and got lots of mushrooms :lol:

The pic of the pan below was made with 1 quart of mycelium on rye grain, the other 4 jars I had contaminated with trich.

The pan got bacterial though, never contaminated however (flushed 4-6 times before I chucked it) here is a pic, you can see the white balls of bacteria on the surface, still got many ounces of dried mushrooms... :lmafo:

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Edited by Perception7 (06/21/16 02:12 PM)


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23366945 - 06/21/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
Quote:

Myko Fanatikos said:
I wouldn't know my ass from a hole in the ground lol




You gave me that impression lol.  Keep trying, you'll figure out what works for you eventually.




Lmao, one day I'll get my shit together. It never hurts to be humbled once in a while.

I'm grateful for the advice :thumbup:


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Perception7]
    #23366968 - 06/21/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Perception7 said:



My blood and sweat have literally been grown into this hobby.






Ha that's great!  Waste not lol

Oh and myco I meant no offense.  I have a ton to learn as well and I couldn't have done anything without this site.  I'm no scientist either lol


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic] * 1
    #23367160 - 06/21/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)






Oh and myco I meant no offense.  I have a ton to learn as well and I couldn't have done anything without this site.  I'm no scientist either lol




If I took offense instead of advice I'd never get anywhere :wink:


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Myko Fanatikos]
    #23370953 - 06/22/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Hey everyone. I'm posting pics that were taken today after a attempted to bang up a few more jars of the same group as before. First off, let me just say that after two days, the original jars have recolonized bright white and are no longer showing any green. The first jar is before shaking. The rest are after. They Are not all the same jar but from the same group. They all looked colonized the same as the first one so I didn't waste time posting all of them. The rest are about 30 mins after shaking. I am still relatively new to mycology so I do not have experience at every level, hence the motive for this post: the experience of others. If this is blue bruising, I will take it. If it's not, anyone seen this before. I've never seen this in any of my jars before.   [image]http://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/16-25/664334428-thumb_WP_20160622_18_27_31_Pro.jpg[/image]


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23370992 - 06/22/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

After the shake?  They must have been really consolidated to start bruising like that.  I can't tell for sure but I think its all right.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23371043 - 06/22/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Those look awfully sketchy to me.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: dankington]
    #23371146 - 06/22/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

sketchy, yeah, they're bacterial as fuck!


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23371203 - 06/22/16 08:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yep, they still look bacterial


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
    #23371699 - 06/22/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Now that you mention it, they were consolidated to the point that's the best I could get them to break up. Now that I think about it, I've never seen this in any of my jars before but I've also never had jars that wouldn't break up easily. Yes, sketchy is definitely one way of viewing it. That's why I'm looking to you guys. I've had six monos and two minis contam and I'm trying to narrow it down. It has to be in my spawn but I also wasn't pasteurizing my substrate, just using the bucket tek. I am now though.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23371734 - 06/22/16 10:26 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

So let me ask you guys this. If it is contam of some sort and not blue bruising (that ain't the easiest shit to say in a hurry btw) what would it do from this point? Would it continue to grow like that or would it begin to colonize again and cover the contam? A couple months ago I lost ten jars to green mold and there wasn't any question of it. It was some funky shit mon. But the original ones that started this whole thread have started turning white again after two days.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23371753 - 06/22/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If this truly is bacteria, what would its behavior be like? This discoloration begins relatively quick after the shake. I mean, you can be looking at the jar and see nothing and then five minutes later this appears and gets darker and more spread out as time goes by. Does this info help at all?


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23371946 - 06/22/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

the blue is bruising but the big chunks of grains and myc are bacterial.


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23372681 - 06/23/16 07:23 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

one or two of those look super sketchy to me..


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Re: All white not always all good [Re: MycoLoopology]
    #23373042 - 06/23/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Good morning everyone. The first pic is of the same 3 jars about 18 hours later. The second pic is a side by side of one jar from yesterday and one from three days ago. The older one did the exact same thing as these and now look like this. And this is why I asked the question about behavior and such because it looks like it recovered nicely in the one, but the smell is not earthy or shroomy but rather a mixture between sweet and sour caramel? IDK, but it doesn't smell like shrooms. It looks great, spawn it, hell yeah. Then mono completely contaminates. Every time. the other jar in that pic is definitely contam based on smell. I'm just going to assume all the others are as well rather than waste another mono. I've had jars contaminate with green mold before but they left no doubt as to what it was. These on the other hand have been deceiving me for some time. It's a learning experience and I thank everyone for their input. 


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Love and Light to us all. Namaste


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OfflineMycoLoopology
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Registered: 06/12/16
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23373057 - 06/23/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

if it smells sweet, throw it away IMMEDIATELY!! good mushroom myc will NEVER smell like ANYTHING other than the MUSHROOMS we all love.


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Current Grow Log

^^My first grow log <3^^

Wish me luck.


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Invisiblemupetmower
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: MycoLoopology]
    #23373077 - 06/23/16 09:42 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

that white jar in the second pic looks very suspect. i mean, they all kinda do. its too chuncky-looking or something. just doesnt look right. but im no expert, so idk.


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-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: mupetmower]
    #23373200 - 06/23/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

There's no question, they are bacterial. You can try to fruit them if you want.

I'm not a fan of fruiting bacterial spawn, especially if it looks as bad as those. To each his own.

The blue is just bruising, but healthy myc usually does not stay blue for that long; they return to white once they recolonize after shaking. Chances are, it's already under so much stress that it probably won't fruit.

Start using agar.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23373384 - 06/23/16 11:16 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:seriousthankyou:


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OfflineWill7401
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
    #23373569 - 06/23/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Okay dammit, where is everyone getting these trippy ass moving memes or whatever? I haven't got that far in my exploration of Shroomery. You guys post some pretty funny shit. And no, I'm not fruiting them. I have healthier spawn ready for today.


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Love and Light to us all. Namaste


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Invisiblemupetmower
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
    #23373590 - 06/23/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

click the smiley face on the right, above where you type your post.


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-The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.


-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.


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InvisibleSnazz
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Registered: 11/24/15
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: mupetmower]
    #23374128 - 06/23/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mupetmower said:
click the smiley face on the right, above where you type your post.




The cog icon on far right expands to more for each category too.


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