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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
#23365866 - 06/21/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Will7401 said: Sorry if I confused anyone. I only have one pic for now. So here's what went down. All the jars made on 6/1 were beautiful and white on the bottom and all the way around. On the top of the grain was a really bright white fluffy growth. I wasn't really saying that part was contam, just giving data. Now, when I went to hit them on the tire I had to bang the shit out of them with little to no results on most as far as breaking up goes. What did happen with these was a thin layer of white was removed from the outer surface area and the entire thing could now slide up and down in the jar. Three of them broke up a little but damn my arm got tired. So I left them alone for about an hour. When I came back to them, there were green spots growing on the ones that never broke up and the ones that did had green growing vigorously on the loose grain. What I'm saying is it wasn't there during or right after the assault. An hour later, Kaboom, green stuff everywhere. It happened fast. I'm glad this happened though because at least now I know that bright white spawn doesn't necessarily mean clean spawn. If the contam reveals itself that fast after breaking up the grain, I may just start breaking it up and walking away for half a day before I rehydrate the grain and spawn. Everything I have spawned to date has contaminated with thin, grayish white fluff that spreads quickly and then turns into ugly green shit, once it has been spawned, colonized and cased. I was thinking this was being introduced by the casing layer but now I see that it very well could've been my spawn even though it looked clean. Here's the pic. I'll try to get some more to you guys soon. This pic is pre-attempted breakup, btw. My shrooming expedition that I posted in the Identification forum ate up a lot of my memory and I just haven't deleted the photos yet after posting them here. 
Bruising
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
#23365884 - 06/21/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't understand what the problem is. Looks great, you oviously have a healthy jar, and the green is just bruising. People make such a big deal about nothing. Just spawn it dude
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Will7401


Registered: 01/27/16
Posts: 154
Last seen: 13 days, 18 hours
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: weetsie]
#23366170 - 06/21/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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What does it smell like? cubensis mycelium smells like earthy mushrooms while contaminants typically smell very unpleasant.
The rhizomorphs in those jars though... really looks like healthy mycelium to me, sucks if they are contaminated.
That's the thing. When I shake them they smell like mushrooms, all of them that I spawn. But once they get in the mono and begin colonizing, the smell changes into something like caramel or really ripe bananas then the greyish white growth starts on the surface followed by green mold. As for the rhizos, tell me about it. I'm all, hell yeah, look at that beautiful healthy myc.
-------------------- Love and Light to us all. Namaste
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic] 1
#23366177 - 06/21/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
NDStepp84 said: Sounds like you guys have a bad case of dirty spawn denial

hard to break up = bacteria, doesnt mean shit will turn green or not give you shrooms only means you got bacteria lowering BE making your stuff fight contams.
not all white is right, spot on OP, its something we spend a LOT of time teaching new guys here. trich is white before it sporulates.
Quote:
kenetic said: People make such a big deal about nothing.
considering how healthy spawn is alpha omega in this hobby I wouldn't call it making a big deal out of "nothing". its everything!
Bacteria or mold doesnt necessarily smell, sometimes you can smell the bac and know its dirty but even when it smells clean that's no proof it is.
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Will7401


Registered: 01/27/16
Posts: 154
Last seen: 13 days, 18 hours
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
#23366243 - 06/21/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well spacechildo, I can't do anything about other folk's experience but I know I have UTFSE, as suggested by so many, and I am putting my own experience with what is happening up against what others have shared already. I'm not imagining anything. I've seen the blue bruising before. This is GREEN, the jars smell like mushrooms, not bacteria, the grain was hard as hell to break up, some wouldn't at all. This is the first time I have ever broke them up but walked away for an hour or so. I usually just break them up then soak, drain and spawn. In my newb opinion this is not a disaster but a very important learning experience. If it has no adverse effect on the spawn, I believe I will be breaking them up and leaving them for half a day or so before soaking to see what happens. That's much more efficient than waiting for it t reveal itself in the mono. Whatever the contam is it's very aggressive and revealed itself very quickly, almost like all it needed to thrive was shaking and oxygen. Thanks for the input friend. I'm away from the lab for a few days to reset. When I get back I'll take more pics for you. I understand how important pics are. Thanks everyone.
-------------------- Love and Light to us all. Namaste
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
#23366251 - 06/21/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not sure if that was a response to me or not? I'm telling you hard to break up = bacteria, I havent said anything about blue or green colors.
seeing how grains recolonize (or not) is smart, yeah, but a few hrs wont do it you'd need at least a day to see how it fares.
take pics of the recolonization, any bacteria present will show very clear before the jar turns all white again.
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Myko Fanatikos
Rando



Registered: 02/18/16
Posts: 283
Loc: Earth
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
#23366257 - 06/21/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I shook it almost 48 hours ago. You think it's so easy when they are this full?
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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haha, just leave a couple inches on the top, if it makes it that hard to do.
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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Quote:
Myko Fanatikos said:

I shook it almost 48 hours ago. You think it's so easy when they are this full?
yeah that's bacterial, can still produce fine tho would just do so much better without the bacteria there.
and yeah you shouldn't fill your jars more than 2/3 -3/4 full.
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
#23366275 - 06/21/16 09:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, like has been said, if you can't use your hands to break it up, it's suspect.
And what this really means is that your BE will be reduced significantly. All of you saying you've had great success with impossibly tough to break spawn, aren't factoring the final weight from your spawn. If you aren't getting at least 1 dry oz. per qt. and closer to 2; chances are you have dirty spawn.
No one said it wouldn't work at all, it's just that we try our damnedest to make sure our spawn is as clean as possible. That's why we do all that agar work.
Also;
Quote:
spacechildo said: you can use smell to confirm bacteria, but never to disprove it.
Source
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
#23366283 - 06/21/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've never heard of mold showing up that fast, in an hour, after shaking. I guess it's possible though, IDK everything. Are you sure it's not blue? Maybe blue-green? If you're a dude, you may be seeing green when it's really blue.
If it's definitely green, then toss it.
You can't always smell contamination and if your jars are always bacterial but you still get fruits, then you may not know what a clean jar really smells like and some people are more or less sensitive to smell than others. If you are definitely seeing green mold, then you should be able to smell that it's off.
If you are putting spores on grains, I recommend switching to clean culture made on agar.
You may also benefit from increasing your PC time.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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mupetmower
Mower of Muppets



Registered: 03/29/16
Posts: 3,036
Loc: Here and There
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
#23366289 - 06/21/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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wait, why if youre a guy you might see green when actually blue? just curious haha. never heard that guys and girls see colors differently, or that one can have partial color blindness or something?
-------------------- -The wise man never stops seeking knowledge.
-I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within.
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Will7401


Registered: 01/27/16
Posts: 154
Last seen: 13 days, 18 hours
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: spacechildo]
#23366291 - 06/21/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, it was a response to your post but with references to other posts. Didn't mean to confuse you. So it's cool to leave it for a day after breaking up before soaking it. Cool. Is this a common practice amongst TC's? If it causes no harm then it only makes sense to add this step to my method. Especially considering my record so far with contam. Someone else mentioned the blue bruising. This is not blue bruising.
-------------------- Love and Light to us all. Namaste
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
#23366300 - 06/21/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's pretty common to shake suspect jars at 100% to see how they recover.
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: dankington]
#23366307 - 06/21/16 09:37 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Throw it away then for all I care. If it turned green an hour after you shake its bruising. Do you pasteurize your sub or sterilize it?
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Kenetic]
#23366311 - 06/21/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good luck
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Myko Fanatikos
Rando



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Re: All white not always all good [Re: SpitballJedi]
#23366317 - 06/21/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I suppose I learned something new today, the jar in my last post was made with a clean culture grown out on agar.
I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?
All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.
All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: All white not always all good [Re: Will7401]
#23366319 - 06/21/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Will7401 said: Yes, it was a response to your post but with references to other posts. Didn't mean to confuse you. So it's cool to leave it for a day after breaking up before soaking it. Cool. Is this a common practice amongst TC's? If it causes no harm then it only makes sense to add this step to my method. Especially considering my record so far with contam. Someone else mentioned the blue bruising. This is not blue bruising.
Then toss it. You are wasting your time and materials.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
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Loc: 8te
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Quote:
Myko Fanatikos said: Well I suppose I learned something new today, the jar in my last post was made with a clean culture grown out on agar.
I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?
All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.
All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?
Sometimes you have more flushes because it wasn't able to produce to it's potential in the first two flushes. This can be due to sketch spawn or substrate, or it could be due to less than optimal growing conditions. Just know there are several factors at play.
Also you should really up your PC time to 90minutes.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
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Quote:
Myko Fanatikos said: I don't understand how you can tell it's bacterial from looking?
All my jars have smelled like straight mushroom, no sweetness, nothing. I PC for 50 minutes to an hour.
All my tubs have given me 4 flushes as well. If they were bacterial would they still produce for so long without a legit contam?
you can see its bacterial in the way its trying to recolonize the millet on the bottom of the pic but rather grows fuzz around it than colonize it. If it was healthy it wouldn't look like that after 48hrs.
also 50mins PC time is pushing it, 90-120mins @15psi drasticly reduces bacteria colonies.
bacteria doesnt always mean you'll get contams, it just means you myc is spending a lot of energy fighting the bac instead of focusing on producing mushrooms. If you get 4 good flushes you should try and better the fruiting conditions, more FAE would be the first thing I'd look into.
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