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OfflineMike12000
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question about dwindling yeilds
    #23364033 - 06/20/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

i'll preclude this with i have tried several different search terms to research this on my own and i can't find much if anything on this.

i'm having a problem lately where no matter which sub-species i try to cultivate using the exact same technique used for years, with the same inputs used, the yield is paltry at best. sometimes a tray will grow a few fruits on its first flush. it'll go for 5 to 6 flushes still like always but each flush is smaller and smaller compared to years ago.

initially spore syringes from a reputable vendor were used and fruited many times. flushes back then would be great, like the ones in Hippiechicks pics lol.....from those fruits spore prints were made and saved.

i thought this could be from using the same genetics so i've gone back to spore numerous times. i've used spore prints from previous runs that were chosen based on potency, growth speed, or size. the one thing i haven't gotten started with is any agar work as i'm trying to avoid that til i figure out what's going on.

FC is the same so my parameters aren't a concern. i use a bucket humidifier on timer with several pond foggers floating and then piping carrying the humidity to the actual chamber. humidity stays above 90% or higher except when my fae fans kick on 10 times throughout the day at different time intervals.


has this happened to anyone before? any thoughts on what could cause this?


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Mike12000]
    #23364074 - 06/20/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Sure.....multispore. A lot of people brag about full canopies with multispore but I've only achieved this a few times, luck of the draw. I personally prefer to use clones as I find them less tedious than trying to isolate a mystery strain and the results are a lot more predictable. 
Many people frown upon this but I put a half inch of rye grain in a half-pint and inoculate it with a small piece of tissue from the inside of a ripped open stem. G2g to a master. And I use a Sab, which in my case is a 66qt tub with two arm holes drilled in the side. 

Agar is great and easy for the most part but I'm not much of a science guy and don't use it. 

My way is risky but I have good luck with it.


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OfflineMike12000
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Kenetic]
    #23364417 - 06/20/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

i suspected that it could be from using multi-spore, i guess i'm just surprised that my luck was so good in the beginning and now it's total crap. especially since i've gone back to spores about 20xs.

i like your method for cloning and i'm confident in my sab working fine to actually do what you described.

(knock on wood lol) i've been pretty fortunate with my sab, so i'm sure it will work out using your method. i have pallet wrap over the top of my sab in place of the plastic cover it comes with and i just soak it with iso before doing any work inside. the loose fitting top helps getting things in the sab while keeping the majority of the top covered; this also helps so you can see through the top in addition to the sides. i've had very little contaminate and i open jars fully whenever i'm inoculating.

thanks again for the info, 5 shrooms for you sir!!!


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Mike12000]
    #23364528 - 06/20/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Older spores begin to degrade over time which is why most people tend to isolate  and collect prints from revigorated cultures....

Kind of like how they have to grow wild p.cubes on agar, transfer the cultures to fruiting conditions and then collect spores and repeat until it's stabilized.... essentially that's how all p.cubes came to be...

There is a condition which effects yeild if you over transfer cultures which causes degradation in genetics but that's obviously not what you're experiencing.... try a fresh print.


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: HybridprX]
    #23364537 - 06/20/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I forgot to mention.... I'm use to three flushes....I can understand why a 4th is not doing much....usually after the 3rd the sub is half it's size.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: HybridprX]
    #23364733 - 06/20/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well, as far as senescence is concerned, I'm not concerned. I take one master quart jar of rye and g2g to 7 quarts of rye and spawn then fruit.  I collect spore prints and do the whole thing again from multispore.  It doesn't matter if you have a clone or isolate, spores from any fruit will have all the abundance of genetics that another cubensis print would have, with the exception of mutants like P.E.
Anyway, my way isn't the most efficient way since I start over every other grow but I'm essentially able to perpetuate my cultures forever without buying spores or risking senescence. 
This site has a ton of smart people with good info and you can learn a lot.  Most people say to use the search engine but I use Google most of the time and it gives me pages of info from this site.  Google is much more intuitive. 
I like to read what the T.C.'s have to say. RR is a great place to start, he's been around for a long time and you may see some conflicting info but facts and observations evolve over time.  There are plenty of other people too.  I wish there were some chicks on here though lol.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Kenetic]
    #23364952 - 06/20/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

That's where I got my (in depth) info was a mix between Rr and Paul statements. .. Dr.  Pf fanaticus was the true pioneer behind cakes however and I'm stuck in my ways.

Ms 》wbs 》 coir 》fruits... I've only encountered issues since deviating from the proven path like hydrating my grain jars so that they colonize the sub but refuse to fruit.... also I've been scolded by Rr on multiple occasions for using micropore tape instead of sfd's and consolidation as a replacement for "colonized" and for that I lost the t.c tag lol as well as being a drunken asshole at times.


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Mike12000]
    #23366500 - 06/21/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I would try sourcing some new genetics.

Sounds like it would be well worth it to buy a new syringe or print from a vendor. Getting something known for it's yields might not be a bad place to start.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: george castanza]
    #23366816 - 06/21/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

A proper fruiting chamber instead of improvised plumbing would do OP well.

Honestly surprised this hasn't been mentioned. FC directly influences yields.

Make a real FC before you source new genetics.


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23366860 - 06/21/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineMike12000
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23366950 - 06/21/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Your comment is confusing; a proper FC???? I'm using the same type of humidifier that commercial growers on here use and my bucket easily humidifies 3 Martha type chambers with consistent humidity and fae. The FC is not the issue, it's the same that's been used for years aside from replacement parts to keep it running.

Look up "bucket humidifier" to see what I'm referencing. I used different cool mist and the other type mentioned here and they kept having issues. After much research I found the bucket humififier tek which essentially broke he humidifier down by component and does a much more effective job of humidifing imho. It's totally hands off and completely automated with the exception of filling the bucket every 3 days. There are also huge trays of wet perlite at the bottom of each fc which RR suggests when using a bucket humidifier.


Edited by Mike12000 (06/21/16 02:23 PM)


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OfflineMike12000
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: HybridprX]
    #23366962 - 06/21/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I'm regards to the spores degrading over time; I've tried going back to spores around 20x's so far each using a different spore print from initial MS runs.

I'm going to clone using the method mentioned in the first reply. It sounds simple and fast.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: Mike12000]
    #23367051 - 06/21/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

but are you growing in a martha/GH? if you are you dont need the piping.
if you're not you dont need the humidifier.

trust the advice given, its worth a shot dont you think?


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: question about dwindling yeilds [Re: spacechildo]
    #23373635 - 06/23/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

What Space said...

Also, if you don't already know, you want fluctuating humidity, not constant...


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
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Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK


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