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Offlinemothballs
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albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms)
    #23356841 - 06/18/16 05:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

lets start w the article:
then the souces and laymans terms.....

method for the production of 7.5 grams of psilocybin in less than a week and a half.

Typical Ps.C. cultures grown by various organic substrates achieve .4 - .6 alkaloid yields. Typical nutrient enhanced substrates achieve slightly higher yields of alkaloids. Liquid cultures can effectively achieve 1 - 1.1 alkaloid yields by making essential nutrients and carbohydrates easily available.

This is the general potency of this strain; attempts to further improve nutrient uptake will most likely only result in a higher biomass yield. In the instance of the introduction of tryptamine to yield 3% psilocin alkaloid, I view it as a novel biosynthesis mechanism, operating externally of the natural model of the organism.

Total biomass, although affected accumulatively, is proportional to carbohydrate uptake. I have heard unofficial reports of rapid growth with dextrose as well as organic honey, which is composed of multiple complex sugars. Perhaps a more efficient mixture of carbohydrates then just glucose could be developed.

Many funguses grow rapidly in an acidic environment (3 - 5 pH). Ours displays higher yields of alkaloids and biomass between 4 - 4.6 pH but loses durability and suffers from tissue damage and possible cellular ruption due to solution agitation during the process of aeration. I assume that the growth acceleration that occurs at a lower pH is because nutrients are able to permeate the cellular equilibrium easier. Taking advantage of this requires a device capable of aerating the solution without disturbing the mycelium.

This method of mycelium harvest is far superior to fruited bodies in relation to alkaloid yields, processing, extraction, and overall time.

Lets Pretend:

Glucose (C6H12O6) [1000 g]
Ammonium Succinate (NH4OOC-CH2-CH2-COO) [200 g]
Yeast Extract (Organic Compound) [100 g]
Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4-7H2O) [100 g]
Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) [20 g]
Thiamine Hydrochloride (C12H17ClN4OS HCl) [600 mg]
Ferrous Sulfate (FeSO4-7H2O) [500 mg]
Cupric Sulfate (CuSO4-5H2O) [100 mg]
Ammonium Heptamolybdate ((NH4)6Mo7O24-4H2O) [10 mg]
Manganese Chloride (MnCl2-4H2O) [7 mg]
Zinc Sulfate (ZnSO4-7H2O) [6 mg]
Water (H2O) [200 L]

Prepared in 55 Gallon (211L) drum and adjust to pH 5.5 with hydrochloric acid.

a. Lid is sealed and capped with a filtered pressure release valve.
b. Drum and solution is heat sterilized.
c. Cap is swabbed with sterile gauze and H2O2 and removed.
d. Solution inoculated with 1L of precultured Mycelium.
e. Insertion aerator and cap with filtered relief check valve.
f. Solution is kept at 30C with an electric blanket.
g. Solution is aerated for 7 days with filtered air.
h. 235 Ounces (14.5 lbs) of mycelium are strained from solution with cloth
i. Mycelium dried over calcium chloride to yield 750g dry weight.
j. Biomass is ground to a fine powder and re-added to drum with 75 L of methanol.
k. Sealed with cap fitted with large egg whisk style blender attached to the bottom.
l. Heated to 40C with electric blanket for 1-4 hours depending on level of agitation.
m. Solution is filtered with cloth.
n. Solution is re-filtered in a funnel with inert filtration medium.
o. Cap is fitted with a condenser (.5 - 1" coiled copper tubing inside 4-5 ft 6" PVC pipe allowing for coolant flow around coil) and digital thermometer to measure solution temp.
p. Sealed heat element is placed under drum to maintain 65C.
q. Solution is distilled to 1-5 liters.
r. Solution transferred to distillation apparatus and distilled in 1 L batches.
s. Yielding 20-40 grams of residue.
t. Residue is developed in a 100 ml H2O and 500 ml Naptha matrix.
u. Solution is agitated for 1 hour at room temperature.
v. Non-polar proteins and oils are removed via sep funnel separation of naptha layer.
x. Water is evaporated from extract with a blower using calcium chloride at 30C in 2 hours.
y. Yielding 10-20 grams of extract containing 7.5 g of psilocybin.
z. 375 doses with a street value of over $7000.00

I digress:

If boiling 75 L of methanol isn't your idea of time saving, cost efficient or fun, you can opt to process your ground-dried biomass in 75 (10 g / 1 L) batches. The major benefit being that you can reclaim most your solvent, eliminating the need to buy bulk methanol. The downside is the time involved, even under vacuum this is going to take a little while. Under optimum conditions we could still complete the entire process in less than two weeks.

Perhaps a reflux percolator could be implemented to percolate the bulk material with 1 L methanol while collecting extracts in the distillation chamber. (i.e. the methanol condenses from the distillation chamber into a reservoir layered with: ground biomass and perculate, inert filtrate medium, and filter material; then drains back into the distillation chamber.) Percolation should be complete within 4-24 hours. Fastest results would be seen if condenser displaced about 20C. Alternatively the reservoir could act as a condenser with the addition of a cooling coil to displace vapor temperature and instigate methanol condensation while passing thru the biomass perculate. Biomass should be free of alkaloids upon completion and can be tested for their presence using Keller's reagent. Remaining methanol is distilled off.

Under optimum conditions the entire process could take less than a week and a half.

-Zen

Ref: Hoffmann, Albert "Obtaining Psilocybin and Psilocin from Fungal Material" Sandoz Ltd., US patents 3183172, 1959

Ref: Hofmann, Albert "Method of Inducing Therapeutic Tranquilization with Psilocybin and Psilocin" Sandoz Ltd., US patents 3192111, 1959

Ref: Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of Psilocybin in Submerged Culture of Psilocybe Cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964

Ref: Gartz, Jochen "Synthetic Nutrient Medium for Fungal Manufacture of Indole Alkaloids" Ger. (East) DD 255,749 (cl. C12P15/00), 13 Apr 1988


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356843 - 06/18/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Disproved time and time over

Genetics dictate potency.

More potent species grow on less nutritional substrate. Likewise cubes grown on overly nutritional substrate like cakes do not make more potent mushrooms. Likewise an isolate grown on any substrate is just as potent as it is grown on any other.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/18/16 05:36 AM)


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Offlinemothballs
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23356844 - 06/18/16 05:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

so, what does that say?????
100 g corn sugar
200g succinic acid (ebay)
20 g potasium phosphate. (americanspice.com)
100g epsom salt
100g yeast extract
600mg vitamin B1
500mg green vitroile (naturalpigment.com)
100mg blue vitriole (amazon)
10mg amonium molybendate(ebay)
7mg manganeese chloride (ebay)
6mg white vitrole (naturalpigments.com)
100L water

this will make an lc specifically designed by albert hoffman to make a particulary potent mycelium and is most likely the most scientific data out there on the nutes required for potency.
  as far as the extraction goes,.... 75 l of meoh for >1 kilo of dryed matter.....??????  WTF, mr.hoffman, phytochemistry wasnt your strong suit. put it on a meoh reflux in a 3L soxholet system to yeild perfect crystals lickity split!


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Offlinemothballs
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23356847 - 06/18/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

refrences please, oh, ps, he pattented it


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356850 - 06/18/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Patents don't mean shit :facepalm:

The vast majority of patents are crap, BS, useless, etc..

50+ years of no one giving a shit should be enough reference for anyone with 4th graders research skills


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Offlinemothballs
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23356855 - 06/18/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

we are talking about a. hoffman here. his phytochem skills were questionable, but.....


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356859 - 06/18/16 05:44 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I know who Hoffman is.


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Offlinemothballs
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356862 - 06/18/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

so, do you think it wont work??? or it just wont increase potency??.. or would it still works as a complex lc..... and could you eat dryed myc instead of friut bodys?


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356866 - 06/18/16 05:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I think the media recipe will work, no better or worse than grain water or malt extract.

Your time would be 1000x better spent doing agar isolating to get a more potent set of genetics that grows a higher % alkaloid content every time regardless of what it's grown on as long as it is grown on something acceptable for the species

For the complexity of the LC (even if) it magically made a difference it would still be much more efficient to just use say 5% more mushrooms/mycelium grown on much more simple substrate/media

Eating dried mycelium is noob shit


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356868 - 06/18/16 05:52 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:thisisterrible:

Why does someone always come in here about once a month and quote some incredibly old and outdated article and call it superior just because it's "referenced"?

Hoffman was a genius, there is no refuting that but so was Thomas Edison, do we still use DC as a main electrical supply? No, we don't. That's because something that was published decades ago is usually improved on, effectively making it outdated.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23356870 - 06/18/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

But there's patents on DC transmission, PATENT!


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23356875 - 06/18/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, my bad. I should probably tell the government that they are doing it all wrong, after all, the patents are legit. :shrug:


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23356881 - 06/18/16 06:03 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

They actually do use DC for transmission lines across huge distance and because not every AC grid is compatible they have individual AC/DC conversion at localities. But that wasn't Edison stuff anyway

Hoffman was the guy who called mushrooms plants so...


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Offlinemothballs
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23356884 - 06/18/16 06:04 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

lol, eating myc full of casing, verm, shit, and god knows what else would be some dumb shit to do,... but if it were cultivated in a clean lc? it Does contain the magic


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356893 - 06/18/16 06:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Probably very very little if any. When mushroom primordia form that's when the biological trigger to produce our alkaloids starts.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356898 - 06/18/16 06:09 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

a misnomer for mushies, and accurate for the majority rest of the book( plants of the gods). probally his attempt at laymans terms


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356948 - 06/18/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Dont compare hofmann to edison.

Edison was a prick

It also mentions tryptamine hcl increasing psilocin to 3% (which is insane). These shrooms, you wouldnt even take a whole gram probably

Anyone out there wanna put some NN-MIPT in substrate??? Please??


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It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Fractal420]
    #23356960 - 06/18/16 06:43 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Tyrptamine is totally broke down by the mycelium it doesn't assimilate precursor building blocks. And that's how we can prove that even Hoffman Bullshits

People have tried putting all sorts of things in their substrate from mushrooms to DMT to tryptamine and none of it does shit

Besides that's as stupid as using really good weed as the soil for new weed


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23356970 - 06/18/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

why did you not post the link to the original thread that you cut & pasted into the first post?

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/514231

There was no mention of agar in that post, but in the Sandoz patents there is. One poster claimed to be key in making this work, and why Adam Gottlieb's instructions would not work in his guide. The soft agar uses 1/10th the usual amount people use, this creates a thick gel.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23356981 - 06/18/16 06:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Tyrptamine is totally broke down by the mycelium it doesn't assimilate precursor building blocks. And that's how we can prove that even Hoffman Bullshits

People have tried putting all sorts of things in their substrate from mushrooms to DMT to tryptamine and none of it does shit

Besides that's as stupid as using really good weed as the soil for new weed




If it worked it wouldnt be stupid at all. Ive read about this in TIHKAL too. I am not sure if Shulgin was speaking from experience , but this is in TIHKAL:

Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Fractal420]
    #23356989 - 06/18/16 06:55 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Tyrptamine is totally broke down by the mycelium it doesn't assimilate precursor building blocks. And that's how we can prove that even Hoffman Bullshits

People have tried putting all sorts of things in their substrate from mushrooms to DMT to tryptamine and none of it does shit

Besides that's as stupid as using really good weed as the soil for new weed



You forgot :splooge: in the bulk.

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Dont compare hofmann to edison.

Edison was a prick

It also mentions tryptamine hcl increasing psilocin to 3% (which is insane). These shrooms, you wouldnt even take a whole gram probably

Anyone out there wanna put some NN-MIPT in substrate??? Please??




Prick or not, he's was a genius for his time. Definitely smarter than you and me combined.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Fractal420]
    #23356999 - 06/18/16 06:59 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

PF and shulgin were caught in their science lies long ago. Adding tryptamine to substrates does nothing. No one ever replicated those findings but what was found out was they didn't use isolates and their potencies varied by a factor of 10 anyway so they made the results sound attractive.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Fractal420]
    #23357000 - 06/18/16 06:59 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

"give me the food and let me grow
let the roots men take the floor
cause all them drugs…gonna make you slow
its not the music of the ghetto!!!"


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: blackout]
    #23357015 - 06/18/16 07:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

... thanks for the link,... i lost it,i coulndnt remember where i found it.

finally some positive thoughts here. lets teach the young dogs old tricks and the old dogs new ones and start a freakin psylily circusy


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357021 - 06/18/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The old dogs in this case are dead and they would tell you that you would be an idiot to do this. Let me just spawn to some poo, get high and watch you scratch your head with confusion while laughing my ass off. It's 2016, you know?


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357022 - 06/18/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

who caught sasha in lies,.... i wanna see it in print


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23357028 - 06/18/16 07:12 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Still paying for the white lies of PF gratz shlugin and Hoffman

Caught how? Because they said they got xyz results and not a single replicated study after a half century. Staments even propagated the bullshit helping to keep noobs posting about this stuff.

Most of their extraction info and substrate potency stuff is 100% bull

Show me in print where a single person using an isolate confirms a single thing those guys claimed


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357035 - 06/18/16 07:16 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

do i sound confused? no, i understand it. I've never done it but understand its feasibility and wonder and dream and hope its possible As I've not yet seen it debunked, but have only heard the rumor. have you the time,knowledge, and LAB to dub albert Hoffman's work a myth and shulgans experiments exaggerated for self agrandization?


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357041 - 06/18/16 07:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well considering mushrooms have no vascular system and the only way for them to eat is to exogenously break down things to bring them in the cells. The whole additives to substrate thing is bunk from a molecular biology standpoint. Then there's the fact that as long as a substrate is sufficient the potency potential is determined by the genetics, we find more often than not that we make substrates TOO nutritional and it hinders performance actually.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357058 - 06/18/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
i wanna see it in print




:facepalm3::facepalm::smbfacepalm::doublefacepalm::epicfacepalm::thisisterrible:

Quote:

mothballs said:
do i sound confused? no, i understand it. I've never done it but understand its feasibility and wonder and dream and hope its possible As I've not yet seen it debunked, but have only heard the rumor. have you the time,knowledge, and LAB to dub albert Hoffman's work a myth and shulgans experiments exaggerated for self agrandization?




The fact that no one was able to replicate their "findings" makes it thoroughly debunked. You are not the first person to dream about a superior  substrate/growing medium that is magically more potent than the rest. As has been stated many times over, genetics is where it's at. A strain of mycelium cannot produce more than it is capable of regardless of what it's grown on. This is like eating only carrots to make yourself a ginger, it's just bullshit. No way around that.

This is one of those things that people are so adamant about it working yet they never come back with any actual results. If anyone should waste his time on such idiocy, it should be the believer, not the ones to be persuaded.

Edit:

On TMC it says to incubate at 81F and store colonizing jars in the dark. It's author is considered to be a mycological genius, do you see anyone of us using those methods? Nope.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357060 - 06/18/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

the law has prevented us from reproducing those experiments,... then telling the world


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357061 - 06/18/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

where do we find that?

muda's bottles are nutritious as shit (dog food, bran, coffee, etc). most cube tubs have the majority of their dry weight in grain spawn.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357065 - 06/18/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
the law has prevented us from reproducing those experiments,... then telling the world




I'm pretty sure that the growers in amsterdam would have come up with something if it had any merit. Who else would be more interested in a super potent shroom if not the people who make actual profit with legal cultivation?


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23357077 - 06/18/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
where do we find that?

muda's bottles are nutritious as shit (dog food, bran, coffee, etc). most cube tubs have the majority of their dry weight in grain spawn.



Try adding a bunch of BRF and you'll get blobs with normal varieties


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357079 - 06/18/16 07:34 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:

alright bod…ur the expert


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357080 - 06/18/16 07:34 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

a combination of the two, genetics and nutrients should produce the apex of any living things potential. are you realy hypothesizing that great genetics+perfect nutrients is equal to or less than great genetics and avrage nutrition? that seems counter intuitive


Edited by mothballs (06/18/16 07:38 AM)


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357082 - 06/18/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
the law has prevented us from reproducing those experiments,... then telling the world



Even with anecdotal evidence where people love to exaggerate and bullshit we still see no positive replications and I'm sure there's plenty of people that want to see it work enough they would lie and say it did. But 50 years of people trying, though not 100% scientific, some results emerge that I consider compelling despite publication


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357083 - 06/18/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
... thanks for the link,... i lost it,i coulndnt remember where i found it.




If you look up the patents you will see Hofmann is simply one of several to sign it, he could well have had no involvement at all, and the person who did come up with it might not even be listed too.

Quote:

Publication number US3183172 A
Publication type Grant
Publication date May 11, 1965
Filing date Feb 16, 1959
Priority date Feb 21, 1958
Inventors Heim Roger, Hofmann Albert, Brack Artur, Kobel Hans, Cailleux Roger
Original Assignee Sandoz Ltd




The post about "soft agar" was calling it the "Brack & Kobel" method. Have a read of this
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7680529#7680529

If you do not want to bother growing fruitbodies I would recommend growing stones/sclerotia. Minimal equipment is needed and it is a lot easier to see if they are contaminated or not. Some here have harvested and tripped on stones that were only grown for around a month, if you are in a hurry, but they should increase in yeild and potency if left the usual 3-6 months.

I want to give growing stones on soft agar another go, it would be extremely easy to harvest and suits my own setup.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357089 - 06/18/16 07:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
a combination of the two, genetics and nutrients should produce the apex of any living things potential. are you realy hypothesizing that great genetics+perfect nutrients is equal to or less than great genetics and avrage nutrition?



Yes mushrooms are not plants or people. They only need sufficient substrate. Any extra nutrition added doesn't help. If you use more grain spawn you need more water to get a bigger better flush or they just come out on subsequent flushes. It doesn't make the mushrooms more potent neither does it make them bigger even.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357094 - 06/18/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Quote:

mothballs said:
a combination of the two, genetics and nutrients should produce the apex of any living things potential. are you realy hypothesizing that great genetics+perfect nutrients is equal to or less than great genetics and avrage nutrition?



Yes mushrooms are not plants or people. They only need sufficient substrate. Any extra nutrition added doesn't help. If you use more grain spawn you need more water to get a bigger better flush or they just come out on subsequent flushes. It doesn't make the mushrooms more potent neither does it make them bigger even.




:whathesaid:


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23357098 - 06/18/16 07:42 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

What if mushrooms could get fat like people. Plants can be over fed/force fed but even still we don't get added benefits after a point otherwise we would grow weed on just fertilizer. Or in hydroponic systems just double the nutrition. Doesn't work like that though. Mushrooms it doesn't work like that at all not even a little like it does with plants or animals


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357108 - 06/18/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

i have read agars reports of noticible potency increase w kelp and other ones with blood meal.,... are these exagerations, lies, or just self delusion,.... or might thete be something to it?


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357115 - 06/18/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Why not just try it? There's no use using logic with you, only a crash and burn might make you understand. No guarantees though, people lie to themselves all the time when they want to believe something so bad/are too stupid to see the facts.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23357154 - 06/18/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

descent into insults only vitiates the validity of your arguements. if you are right, you shouls be able to prove it w fact, articles titled "nutrients dont work for boomers, hoffman lied, mythbusters bust shulgin cookin the books,.... or some other simikar rot


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23357159 - 06/18/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

drop a wedge in sterilized coir. watch what happens.

drop a wedge in sterilized hpoo. watch what happens.

drop a wedge in sterilized h poo with bran or chx poo added. watch what happens.

try these things out yourself. its not about potency. its about performance.

most people don't have the access to equipment to really make potency testing accurate enough to notice a difference.

a lot of people read and repeat. your skills will get much better much more quickly if u try reasonable things out for yourself.

whats quoted in the OP is way over my head. I'm just a back woods white trash uneducated mushroom grower


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357182 - 06/18/16 08:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
i have read agars reports of noticible potency increase w kelp and other ones with blood meal.,... are these exagerations, lies, or just self delusion,.... or might thete be something to it?



sure you've read them, I've read to keep mushrooms in the dark too. if they did what they were supposed to we would all be using them. it's not like it slipped past all of us collectively.

potency determinations are impossible to make unless you have an isolate, and even if you do trips are subjective. I've tripped way harder of 5g then I have of 14g it's just set and setting.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357200 - 06/18/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
descent into insults only vitiates the validity of your arguements. if you are right, you shouls be able to prove it w fact, articles titled "nutrients dont work for boomers, hoffman lied, mythbusters bust shulgin cookin the books,.... or some other simikar rot




Wasn't an insult. Unless you thought it describes you well, in which case, not really my fault.

Just saying that if you are so sure that it works, why try to persuade people with actual cultivation experience into trying it? Seems like the only person here that thinks this is possible is you, why not just show us just how good and intelligent you are and come rub it in our faces if you manage to replicate it?

You keep saying our comments and observations aren't valid yet you are the one quoting articles that are half a century old with no real experience of any sort of mushroom cultivation that we can see. Then there's the matter of ranting over PMs just because you were proven wrong. But of course, you won't admit to being proven wrong just because it's not in "print".

Classic.

If you stick around just for a few weeks, you can easily see why we call these dreams fantasies. Shit like this will keep surfacing at least once a month and not even 1 of those OPs come back with any real findings. No matter how hard you bury this BS, it always comes back and no matter how adamant the OP is, he never re-appears.

Tell you what, you go drink that mycelium laden LC, I'll just be here tripping balls using mushrooms grown with proven cultivation techiniques. Seems to me that you are only interested in such a thing because you can't get a decent culture to save your life, if you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time arguing such outdated articles. Remember that the best techniques that we use in current times were only developed in recent years, how you think that a 50year old article has more merit and potential is beyond me.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23357209 - 06/18/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

burden of proof lies on those with the claims.
I have yet to see proof that any of these potency boosters work, but have seen bazillions of anecdotal evidence that none of them do work. not only that there's biochemical understandings that kill most of the arguments.

the only proof there is, is some numbers hoffman PF and some others wrote down and managed to get published

the most un-compelling list of sources ever.

    Heim, R., Hoffman, A. (1958) Compt. Rend. 247,557.
    Bigwood, J.. Beug, M.W. (1982) J. Ethnopharm. 5, 287.
    Gartz, J. (1987) Beitrage zur Kenntnis der Pilze Mitteleuropas 3, 275.
    Badham, E. (1984) J. Ethnopharm. 10, 249
    Agurell, S., Blomkvist, S., Catalfomo, P. (1966) Acta Pharm. Suecica 3, 37.
    Agurell, S., Nilsson, J.L.G. (1968) Acta Chem. Scand. 22, 1210.
    Agurell, S., Nilsson, J.L.G. (1968) Tetrahedron Lett. 1063.
    Gartz, J. (1985) Pharmazie 40, 134.
    Gartz, J. (1987) Planta Med. 53, 539.
    Semerdzieva, M., Wurst, M., Koza, T., Gartz, J. (1986) Planta Med. 52, 83.
    Stijve, T., Hischenhuber, C., Ashley, D. (1984) Z. Mykol. 50, 361.
    Beug, M.W., Bigwood, J. (1982) J. Ethnopharm. 5, 271.
    Ohenoja, E., Jokiranata, J., Makinen, T., Kaikkonen, A., Airaksinen, M.M. (1987) J. Nat. Prod. 50, 741
    Repke, D.B., Leslie, D.T., Guzman, G. (1977) Lloydia 40, 566.


what's happening here is someone is saying god exists and then demanding that everyone prove he doesn't


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357216 - 06/18/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:sonofawebitch:

But..... It's in print!


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23357221 - 06/18/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Andrew Wakefield is published too in a journal called "the lancet" actually the finally retracted the paper. but publishing is way easier than you would think it is. every kid getting a MS or PHD in the sciences has to publish something along with their dissertation and if you haven't noticed college doesn't make people smart.


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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357273 - 06/18/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

first of all, i never said it would work, only to explain in laymans terms his recipie


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357294 - 06/18/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
so, what does that say?????
100 g corn sugar
200g succinic acid (ebay)
20 g potasium phosphate. (americanspice.com)
100g epsom salt
100g yeast extract
600mg vitamin B1
500mg green vitroile (naturalpigment.com)
100mg blue vitriole (amazon)
10mg amonium molybendate(ebay)
7mg manganeese chloride (ebay)
6mg white vitrole (naturalpigments.com)
100L water

this will make an lc specifically designed by albert hoffman to make a particulary potent mycelium and is most likely the most scientific data out there on the nutes required for potency.
  as far as the extraction goes,.... 75 l of meoh for >1 kilo of dryed matter.....??????  WTF, mr.hoffman, phytochemistry wasnt your strong suit. put it on a meoh reflux in a 3L soxholet system to yeild perfect crystals lickity split!



so the layman's terms are just other names for chemicals? anyone can type hoffman's original list into google and find the same. but then like said earlier it might be beneficial to know that mycelium in a LC or even cakes before fruiting contain hardly any alkaloid. PF and hoffman have put out some very interesting numbers, in 50 years never been even substantiated with other peoples evidence, even anecdotal. there's no published research to "prove" they lied and were wrong, but there's not even a single hint of evidence that they were ever right to warrant the investigations. you don't have to crunch the numbers if 100s of people have tried adding things like tryptamine to substrates with no effect unless they eat said tryptamine inadvertently with the shrooms. if you wanted to do an extraction you would be much better off fruiting them and also selecting a potent strain via isolation then extracting the wet or dried mushroom fruit bodies themselves. almost no one does extractions because it's ridiculous when the alkaloids come pre-packaged in lightweight easy to dose mushrooms.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23357331 - 06/18/16 09:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

let's make a light malt extract LC


Glucose (C6H12O6) [1000 g] (dextrose(glucose), maltose, and a bunch of other carbohydrates. all in malt)

Ammonium Succinate (NH4OOC-CH2-CH2-COO) [200 g] (probably thought the overblown findings in humans would translate to mushrooms, useless)


Yeast Extract (Organic Compound) [100 g] (add it if you want)


Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4-7H2O) [100 g] (magnesium is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)


Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) [20 g] (potassium is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)

Thiamine Hydrochloride (C12H17ClN4OS HCl) [600 mg](mushrooms make vitamins and are a source of them for humans, mushrooms don't need vitamins doh!)

Ferrous Sulfate (FeSO4-7H2O) [500 mg](iron is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)


Cupric Sulfate (CuSO4-5H2O) [100 mg](copper is trace, and usable by fungi, malt+water needs no supplementation)


Ammonium Heptamolybdate ((NH4)6Mo7O24-4H2O) [10 mg](molybdenum is trace, and usable by fungi, malt+water needs no supplementation)


Manganese Chloride (MnCl2-4H2O) [7 mg](manganese is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)


Zinc Sulfate (ZnSO4-7H2O) [6 mg] (zinc is in malt and, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)


Water (H2O) [200 L]


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23357403 - 06/18/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

LOL... drums full of methanol. This is a tek for people looking to sell drugs in large quantities and probably doesn't belong here.

Incubating cubensis mycelium at 30C? good luck with that...

Also as regards DET...synthetic tryptamines are all inferior to the naturally occuring (ie not man-made) stuff.

IMO this thread should be removed.


Edited by Orgasmatron (06/18/16 10:11 AM)


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Orgasmatron]
    #23358061 - 06/18/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

bohdi has finally come close to the debunk statement using the constituants of malt in comparision to the formula. im open to logical rebuttal. i came across this, found it interesting mostly due to the prestige of the name. i may be a dreamer, but im not the only one.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23358347 - 06/18/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mothballs said:
i may be a dreamer, but im not the only one.




You sure 'bout that? You seem awfully lonely up in here. But you're right, you are not the only one who strolls down to the shroomery thinking he just found the holy grail that everyone seems to have missed. Only thing is that we can actually grow mushrooms and don't really  need a shitty way of extracting actives from mycelium.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23358391 - 06/18/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

so speaking of which,  what is the best extraction method to date for the actives in mushrooms?


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: tombosley8] * 1
    #23358396 - 06/18/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

tea


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23358400 - 06/18/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I do love tea but is there one that produces something that does not need refrigeration or freezing for long term storage and makes an extract that takes very little space(like powder or crystal form)?


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: tombosley8]
    #23358410 - 06/18/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Best you can get is a gross sludge that will probably lose it's potency pretty quickly.  Powder/crystal extracts from mushrooms are pretty much a fantasy.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Inocuole]
    #23358527 - 06/18/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

You need to know what you are doing to get crystals and even then, they lose potency by the minute because they are highly unstable when exposed to air.

If you are looking for an easy yet very concentrated extract, an everclear extraction is the best you can do. There is a much better extraction that uses chemicals and proper gear but you need to know at least a little bit of chemistry to pull it off. Even with everclear, you need to keep it in liquid form, even if you evaporate most of it. You also need to freeze it if you want to retain it's potency.

I have tried extraction using alcohol I distilled myself. Was only able to get it to ~86% and it wasn't all that good. A reflux still would have given me much better results but I bought a capsule machine recently so I'm not all that interested in extractions anymore. Seems to me that unless you are going the to use the chemical method, it will be a waste of time.


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23358536 - 06/18/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

make tea ala Muda and you'll only need a quart an ice cube to soil your pants :lol:


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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23358714 - 06/18/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

i just outlined the procedure while laughing at hoffmans extract tec... crystals of the gods w a soxholet


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Offlinetombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
    #23358967 - 06/18/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Lately I mostly make tea though. Last weekend I made 2 liters of tea using 450 grams of fresh PE/KSSS, 1/4lb of lizard king, 1/4 pound of B+, 6 ounces of cambo and 2.5 ounces of PE. I took one shot glass full of that shit and was tripping balls within 15 minutes. Why bother eating that shit when one sip of tea is all you need.





So is that what your talking about? :thinker:
Maybe that is the solution after all
Thanks guys
:mindblown:


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: tombosley8]
    #23362095 - 06/19/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Shulgin Was not a mycologist. def no reason to disrespect shulgin who worked in a completely different "psychedelic field". Hofmann also, mostly known for his work with LSD, not sure that he was all too great a mycologist


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineMycoLoopology
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Registered: 06/12/16
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Fractal420]
    #23363044 - 06/20/16 07:21 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

inclined to agree with this guy. i may have a 175 IQ(borderline genius? LOL), but i dont expect anyone to take my advice seriously unless im an expert in a certain field of study. i know a LOT about a few things, and a LITTLE about a lot of things, but even my brain cant keep up and do everything perfectly every time.

im still learning about mycology, but i do hope that at some point in the future i can be considered a expert on the subject; and this site is a GREAT starting place for that goal.

(2 years chemisty in college for my AS, switched to information systems technology for 4 years for my BSIST, and 1 year in physics and applications towards metaphysics and quantum physics.)

no where during that time did i study mycology, but i wish so badly that i had. i still want to go back to school for quantum physics and get my masters in the field. absolutely incredibly stunning and mild blowing stuff in the world of physics.. and it never hurts to become a scientist :p for those interested i can definitely offer some insight into some great books to read etc. and my hope is to minor in mycology if i do decide to go back to school.

i went off a bit there, sorry. i do this from time to time:p


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Current Grow Log

^^My first grow log <3^^

Wish me luck.


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