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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23357098 - 06/18/16 07:42 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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What if mushrooms could get fat like people. Plants can be over fed/force fed but even still we don't get added benefits after a point otherwise we would grow weed on just fertilizer. Or in hydroponic systems just double the nutrition. Doesn't work like that though. Mushrooms it doesn't work like that at all not even a little like it does with plants or animals
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mothballs
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 04/30/10
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23357108 - 06/18/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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i have read agars reports of noticible potency increase w kelp and other ones with blood meal.,... are these exagerations, lies, or just self delusion,.... or might thete be something to it?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
#23357115 - 06/18/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why not just try it? There's no use using logic with you, only a crash and burn might make you understand. No guarantees though, people lie to themselves all the time when they want to believe something so bad/are too stupid to see the facts.
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mothballs
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 04/30/10
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23357154 - 06/18/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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descent into insults only vitiates the validity of your arguements. if you are right, you shouls be able to prove it w fact, articles titled "nutrients dont work for boomers, hoffman lied, mythbusters bust shulgin cookin the books,.... or some other simikar rot
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23357159 - 06/18/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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drop a wedge in sterilized coir. watch what happens.
drop a wedge in sterilized hpoo. watch what happens.
drop a wedge in sterilized h poo with bran or chx poo added. watch what happens.
try these things out yourself. its not about potency. its about performance.
most people don't have the access to equipment to really make potency testing accurate enough to notice a difference.
a lot of people read and repeat. your skills will get much better much more quickly if u try reasonable things out for yourself.
whats quoted in the OP is way over my head. I'm just a back woods white trash uneducated mushroom grower
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
#23357182 - 06/18/16 08:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mothballs said: i have read agars reports of noticible potency increase w kelp and other ones with blood meal.,... are these exagerations, lies, or just self delusion,.... or might thete be something to it?
sure you've read them, I've read to keep mushrooms in the dark too. if they did what they were supposed to we would all be using them. it's not like it slipped past all of us collectively.
potency determinations are impossible to make unless you have an isolate, and even if you do trips are subjective. I've tripped way harder of 5g then I have of 14g it's just set and setting.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
#23357200 - 06/18/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mothballs said: descent into insults only vitiates the validity of your arguements. if you are right, you shouls be able to prove it w fact, articles titled "nutrients dont work for boomers, hoffman lied, mythbusters bust shulgin cookin the books,.... or some other simikar rot
Wasn't an insult. Unless you thought it describes you well, in which case, not really my fault.
Just saying that if you are so sure that it works, why try to persuade people with actual cultivation experience into trying it? Seems like the only person here that thinks this is possible is you, why not just show us just how good and intelligent you are and come rub it in our faces if you manage to replicate it?
You keep saying our comments and observations aren't valid yet you are the one quoting articles that are half a century old with no real experience of any sort of mushroom cultivation that we can see. Then there's the matter of ranting over PMs just because you were proven wrong. But of course, you won't admit to being proven wrong just because it's not in "print".
Classic.
If you stick around just for a few weeks, you can easily see why we call these dreams fantasies. Shit like this will keep surfacing at least once a month and not even 1 of those OPs come back with any real findings. No matter how hard you bury this BS, it always comes back and no matter how adamant the OP is, he never re-appears.
Tell you what, you go drink that mycelium laden LC, I'll just be here tripping balls using mushrooms grown with proven cultivation techiniques. Seems to me that you are only interested in such a thing because you can't get a decent culture to save your life, if you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time arguing such outdated articles. Remember that the best techniques that we use in current times were only developed in recent years, how you think that a 50year old article has more merit and potential is beyond me.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23357209 - 06/18/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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burden of proof lies on those with the claims. I have yet to see proof that any of these potency boosters work, but have seen bazillions of anecdotal evidence that none of them do work. not only that there's biochemical understandings that kill most of the arguments.
the only proof there is, is some numbers hoffman PF and some others wrote down and managed to get published
the most un-compelling list of sources ever.
Heim, R., Hoffman, A. (1958) Compt. Rend. 247,557. Bigwood, J.. Beug, M.W. (1982) J. Ethnopharm. 5, 287. Gartz, J. (1987) Beitrage zur Kenntnis der Pilze Mitteleuropas 3, 275. Badham, E. (1984) J. Ethnopharm. 10, 249 Agurell, S., Blomkvist, S., Catalfomo, P. (1966) Acta Pharm. Suecica 3, 37. Agurell, S., Nilsson, J.L.G. (1968) Acta Chem. Scand. 22, 1210. Agurell, S., Nilsson, J.L.G. (1968) Tetrahedron Lett. 1063. Gartz, J. (1985) Pharmazie 40, 134. Gartz, J. (1987) Planta Med. 53, 539. Semerdzieva, M., Wurst, M., Koza, T., Gartz, J. (1986) Planta Med. 52, 83. Stijve, T., Hischenhuber, C., Ashley, D. (1984) Z. Mykol. 50, 361. Beug, M.W., Bigwood, J. (1982) J. Ethnopharm. 5, 271. Ohenoja, E., Jokiranata, J., Makinen, T., Kaikkonen, A., Airaksinen, M.M. (1987) J. Nat. Prod. 50, 741 Repke, D.B., Leslie, D.T., Guzman, G. (1977) Lloydia 40, 566.
what's happening here is someone is saying god exists and then demanding that everyone prove he doesn't
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23357216 - 06/18/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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But..... It's in print!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23357221 - 06/18/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Andrew Wakefield is published too in a journal called "the lancet" actually the finally retracted the paper. but publishing is way easier than you would think it is. every kid getting a MS or PHD in the sciences has to publish something along with their dissertation and if you haven't noticed college doesn't make people smart.
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mothballs
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 242
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Re: albert Hoffman's recipe for synthetic nutrients designed for potency( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23357273 - 06/18/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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first of all, i never said it would work, only to explain in laymans terms his recipie
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
#23357294 - 06/18/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mothballs said: so, what does that say????? 100 g corn sugar 200g succinic acid (ebay) 20 g potasium phosphate. (americanspice.com) 100g epsom salt 100g yeast extract 600mg vitamin B1 500mg green vitroile (naturalpigment.com) 100mg blue vitriole (amazon) 10mg amonium molybendate(ebay) 7mg manganeese chloride (ebay) 6mg white vitrole (naturalpigments.com) 100L water
this will make an lc specifically designed by albert hoffman to make a particulary potent mycelium and is most likely the most scientific data out there on the nutes required for potency. as far as the extraction goes,.... 75 l of meoh for >1 kilo of dryed matter.....?????? WTF, mr.hoffman, phytochemistry wasnt your strong suit. put it on a meoh reflux in a 3L soxholet system to yeild perfect crystals lickity split!
so the layman's terms are just other names for chemicals? anyone can type hoffman's original list into google and find the same. but then like said earlier it might be beneficial to know that mycelium in a LC or even cakes before fruiting contain hardly any alkaloid. PF and hoffman have put out some very interesting numbers, in 50 years never been even substantiated with other peoples evidence, even anecdotal. there's no published research to "prove" they lied and were wrong, but there's not even a single hint of evidence that they were ever right to warrant the investigations. you don't have to crunch the numbers if 100s of people have tried adding things like tryptamine to substrates with no effect unless they eat said tryptamine inadvertently with the shrooms. if you wanted to do an extraction you would be much better off fruiting them and also selecting a potent strain via isolation then extracting the wet or dried mushroom fruit bodies themselves. almost no one does extractions because it's ridiculous when the alkaloids come pre-packaged in lightweight easy to dose mushrooms.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23357331 - 06/18/16 09:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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let's make a light malt extract LC
Glucose (C6H12O6) [1000 g] (dextrose(glucose), maltose, and a bunch of other carbohydrates. all in malt)
Ammonium Succinate (NH4OOC-CH2-CH2-COO) [200 g] (probably thought the overblown findings in humans would translate to mushrooms, useless)
Yeast Extract (Organic Compound) [100 g] (add it if you want)
Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4-7H2O) [100 g] (magnesium is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)
Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) [20 g] (potassium is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)
Thiamine Hydrochloride (C12H17ClN4OS HCl) [600 mg](mushrooms make vitamins and are a source of them for humans, mushrooms don't need vitamins doh!)
Ferrous Sulfate (FeSO4-7H2O) [500 mg](iron is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)
Cupric Sulfate (CuSO4-5H2O) [100 mg](copper is trace, and usable by fungi, malt+water needs no supplementation)
Ammonium Heptamolybdate ((NH4)6Mo7O24-4H2O) [10 mg](molybdenum is trace, and usable by fungi, malt+water needs no supplementation)
Manganese Chloride (MnCl2-4H2O) [7 mg](manganese is in malt, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)
Zinc Sulfate (ZnSO4-7H2O) [6 mg] (zinc is in malt and, and usable by fungi, malt needs no supplementation)
Water (H2O) [200 L]
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Orgasmatron
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/16
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
#23357403 - 06/18/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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LOL... drums full of methanol. This is a tek for people looking to sell drugs in large quantities and probably doesn't belong here.
Incubating cubensis mycelium at 30C? good luck with that...
Also as regards DET...synthetic tryptamines are all inferior to the naturally occuring (ie not man-made) stuff.
IMO this thread should be removed.
Edited by Orgasmatron (06/18/16 10:11 AM)
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mothballs
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 242
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Orgasmatron]
#23358061 - 06/18/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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bohdi has finally come close to the debunk statement using the constituants of malt in comparision to the formula. im open to logical rebuttal. i came across this, found it interesting mostly due to the prestige of the name. i may be a dreamer, but im not the only one.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: mothballs]
#23358347 - 06/18/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mothballs said: i may be a dreamer, but im not the only one.
You sure 'bout that? You seem awfully lonely up in here. But you're right, you are not the only one who strolls down to the shroomery thinking he just found the holy grail that everyone seems to have missed. Only thing is that we can actually grow mushrooms and don't really need a shitty way of extracting actives from mycelium.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23358391 - 06/18/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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so speaking of which, what is the best extraction method to date for the actives in mushrooms?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: tombosley8] 1
#23358396 - 06/18/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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tea
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23358400 - 06/18/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I do love tea but is there one that produces something that does not need refrigeration or freezing for long term storage and makes an extract that takes very little space(like powder or crystal form)?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Re: albert hoffmans recipie for synthetic nutrients designed for potentcy( laymans terms) [Re: tombosley8]
#23358410 - 06/18/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Best you can get is a gross sludge that will probably lose it's potency pretty quickly. Powder/crystal extracts from mushrooms are pretty much a fantasy.
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