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Offlineglimpee
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If someone attacks you - should you fight back?
    #23355400 - 06/17/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

This question stems from a mistake of mine

The first time I broke reality - no longer recognized anything as real - saw it all as my creation - as the laws of physics and associations and recognition of reality ceased to be and my mind took over in an absolute creative state that made things that have no association to our understanding of reality

In this state I hit my brother. It wasn't an aggressive act - it was to see if I could finally touch a creation. There are a lot of problems with that.

I told myself if I were to continue exploring this path - I need to be safe. I need to perfect myself to the core.

I told myself that if anyone were to ever attack me - I would have to do nothing, because I could be "hallucinating" and hurt someone who isn't actually trying to hurt me.





QUESTION


But let's also take the question from a more general standpoint, what does it say about you if you fight back? If you don't?

Is one who refuses to fight back - perhaps realizing that pain is an "illusion" as is the rest of everything, or out of basic respect for life.

Is there an instance where one SHOULD fight back? Can that be healthy?

"You never fall if you never fight" - Eyedeas

I've found much of the internal conflict within most people including myself are resulting from fighting what's within

So what does it mean to fight whats outside? (this is assuming you have done nothing to provoke the other person)

For someone pursuing "insanity," is the idea of not even defending yourself healthy?








PERSONAL (not needed to respond)


A little bit about my growth in this - I still need a bit more respect for reality - but I think I've gotten over attacking someone
After some changing, I had a dream where a roomate was in my room, I was tripping sack, and he was really pissed. He got on my bed about to attack me, rushing at me. I silently sat and took a deep breath and he disappeared.

This is helpful if for example I falsely (or correctly) perceive aggression and amplify it into a physical attack. If my false image of that person attacks me, I might stay still, and they might dissipate

Or the hit might connect, and I might feel "pain," which is where the real worry occurs

If I experience this pain - and the person isn't attacking me, I will be much more likely to try to defend myself, although I did once have a friend try to attack me and I just backed up as he hit me saying "I wont fight you"

And I ended up bruised but not hurt.

I think if you dont provoke anyone, and dont fight back, the chances of actual damage are low.




But the last time I broke reality - I went too far. For the first time since my first break, I heard people saying things they wern't saying, personifying the vibe I felt in the room. I was looking at a screen playing a game.

One roomate was talking about fighting another. But I heard what he was saying as directed at me, that he wanted to go outside and fight.

I kept saying I dont want to, but him+everyone else became very negative figures to me. Closest thing I've had to a bad trip I guess. Eventually I thought they were all trying to stop me/distract me from anything I wanted to do, like it was their duty, a test to get me to take what I want with all of my being.

And I started to get angry. Not uncontrollable, but it was there.

And then I agreed to the fight. (apparently everyone thought I was sane and fine and I was contributing to the conversation)

Then I started to hear everyone in the room mockingly saying "EVEN if someone attacks me, I wont fight back!" - quoting my previous goal

It was my mind telling me that I'm losing control.

I ended up doing some stupid things that night that I wont get into, my friend told me I had a visitor outside and I went outside and there was no one there. Then did some stupid shit as I didn't recognize it as real and starting living out the movie Akira. Whole bunch of mistakes were made that told me I have a lot of it wrong, and that I'm not as far down the path as I thought I was. That some things I thought I fixed were still there.

So I just wanted to pose the question,

What are your thoughts about defending yourself physically?


Edited by glimpee (06/17/16 04:55 PM)


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InvisibleVitalux
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee] * 1
    #23356225 - 06/17/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Excellent ...Question ...


My way of reasoning is based a whole lot around the golden rule of;

" Do not do anything to anyone else, that you would not want anyone else to do to you"  :hippie:

So my first reaction is in a physical confrontation is to be kind and considerate of another souls moment of insanity.:mad2:

If that fails, than I simply see the situation as an experience to see what a good beating  :bitchsmack:  might offer....in the sense of teaching my pupil "cause and reaction" It's kind of a physics thing you see :smile:


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Offlineyeah
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23357180 - 06/18/16 08:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

wtf do you mean 'pursuing insanity'?

Yes you should defend yourself, and all the better if you know how to.


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OfflinexxBonkRipper420xx
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23358085 - 06/18/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yes. Take No shit fam.


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InvisibleVitalux
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: yeah]
    #23358898 - 06/18/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
wtf do you mean 'pursuing insanity'?

Yes you should defend yourself, and all the better if you know how to.




Fear is something that causes insanity.

Anger, fear, in my opinion is the same thing. So I can appreciate and understand that when someone is upset, angry, afraid, it is not always possible to reason with them while they are in this period of insanity.

Having to defend yourself from a physical attack is something which is in our best interests for our survival.
However, while defending one self, in my mind, the defender should only use whatever means he has to do save lives without necessarily trying to do undo harm to another.

Kind of like, if a woman smacks me in the face because she is angry, does not mean that I need punch her back and harm her. The first goal is to try and defuse the situation and/or run or walk away.

In fact, a wise one runs from unnecessary confrontation of a physical nature. :pipesmoke:

Only a fool defends a bruised  ego. :shrug:


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OfflineEthric

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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23358927 - 06/18/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, it is a problem if you are delusional..

If you wont fight back in real life people will destroy you mate.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: Vitalux]
    #23360101 - 06/19/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vitalux said:
the defender should only use whatever means he has to do save lives without necessarily trying to do undo harm to another.




yeah I agree, that's how you have class


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OfflinexxBonkRipper420xx
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: yeah]
    #23360140 - 06/19/16 08:15 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Quote:

Vitalux said:
the defender should only use whatever means he has to do save lives without necessarily trying to do undo harm to another.




yeah I agree, that's how you have class




Fuck that, you should completely and utterly break him/her, so they can never do harm to anyone again.


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InvisibleRainbowmedicine
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: xxBonkRipper420xx]
    #23360196 - 06/19/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I'm with Pavlov and classical conditioning. If it hurts when I do that, I won't want to do it again. So yeah, make the fecker realise it's a bad idea to attack you, because they get hurt. You get to keep your self esteem, which your attacker attempted to deprive you of. Then just move on.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: xxBonkRipper420xx]
    #23360199 - 06/19/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23360643 - 06/19/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Fight back?  I long for the day.  People are a bunch of pussies nowadays, there's all these assault laws and such.  But really, I long for the day.  The last time I was attacked I backed off.  Now, not so much.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23362104 - 06/19/16 09:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It says that we all will reap what we has sown, and so, whatever you put out there will come back onto you seven folds. All of my life that I have seen no one that has not gotten away with murder. I have seen elderly that has been done wrong, but then I learn about their past and found out that they weren't always so sweet all of their life.


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: Douglas Howard]
    #23363112 - 06/20/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Douglas Howard said:
It says that we all will reap what we has sown, and so, whatever you put out there will come back onto you seven folds. All of my life that I have seen no one that has not gotten away with murder. I have seen elderly that has been done wrong, but then I learn about their past and found out that they weren't always so sweet all of their life.




That at least doesnt seem fair - if someone changes they deserve the recognition of that, not to answer for the crimes of their past. To me that feels like its against what life is truely about


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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OfflineCosmicAdventurer
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23363139 - 06/20/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Its called "reasonable force".

Meaning you may only use enough force to stop and act of violence.

Example, if you punch me in the face, am I allowed to punch you in the face?
No, I must only use enough force, to stop you from punching me. Anymore and its deemed "unreasonable force". Imo this stands true on a karmic level also.


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: CosmicAdventurer]
    #23363204 - 06/20/16 08:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicAdventurer said:
Its called "reasonable force".

Meaning you may only use enough force to stop and act of violence.

Example, if you punch me in the face, am I allowed to punch you in the face?
No, I must only use enough force, to stop you from punching me. Anymore and its deemed "unreasonable force". Imo this stands true on a karmic level also.




But what if your vision of reality isnt true to the agreed view and you percieve someone is attacking when they arent, erasonable force then becomes assult


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: Vitalux]
    #23365092 - 06/20/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vitalux said:

Fear is something that causes insanity.




Fear can be rational and functional. For example the fear we feel when a hungry tiger chases us.

But you are right, fear can often be irrational. For example, anxiety is often based in irrational thinking.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: glimpee]
    #23374822 - 06/23/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

the ideal is to neutralize the attack with a minimum of force and emotion
and evaluate the consequences of your actions

that is the theory

every actual instance is different and perhaps unpredictable

verbal and emotional attack is different from physical, ...
and legal attack is again different
there are also, financial, viral, bacterial, & toxic chemical attack,
hormonal imbalances, & old age, as well as perhaps one's own negative thinking or attitude, etc.
so no one specific piece of advice
can cover all aspects

a metaphor of life is as a constant battle, is it not?


Edited by laughingdog (06/23/16 07:13 PM)


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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23374868 - 06/23/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

yes, that is exactly true, laughing.
aikido is very much of that nature, with precisely that goal - to end conflict, with no violence or as close to 0% harm done, etc. . . which can even be done before it starts, of course.  but if one finds oneself in any situation, the perfect action is usually stillness.  i wouldn't say it's from practice, but a thorough understanding.. but - whichever way, if one reaches it, that's very important -- necessary, rather. 

also - if there is a situation -- Mirra Alfassa sort of put it this way - there is a physical effect to immobility ( stillness, she talks for a while how it's like. . . well, haha i can't at all do her words . . but lovely -- yes. . . stillness with -- somehow motion..

anyway she makes the point and this i do remember, that basically stillness can become impenetrable.

How to get to world peace? I guess, share that with the most effective ones - the young - the next generation - and in the key spots, where it will blossom to leaders for the future.

anyway, forget all words - practice patience, stillness, the Tao - etc.,
best of luck and peace


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Offlinestupididiot
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: graceful dragon]
    #23375275 - 06/23/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

when someone is attacking you, you will fight back (without knowing/controlling it), or you will sustain injury.

it's a defense mechanism, or you can freeze and "go inside your head" (and be physically harmed (alternate (non-advisable defense mechanism)

> i am very non-violent, but when provoked, fight, as i am sure many people here would do to...

...pretending to do martial arts / child-like speculation will not help you much; it is a nasty buisness.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: If someone attacks you - should you fight back? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23375753 - 06/24/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

. . . a metaphor of life is as a constant battle, is it not?





Interesting points.  Yes, we see life as a huge battle.

Particularity obvious when we speak of the weather . . .

  "The heat wave has hit with massive force and killed 14"

  "The wildfire left a brutal path of destruction"

  "The monstrous wave slammed into the beach community wreaking havoc."


We give weather a personality, as if it's an attacking enemy.


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