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InvisibleGlameow
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Registered: 04/24/16
Posts: 179
Loc: Ireland Flag
Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: Maroon]
    #23376050 - 06/24/16 04:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Maroon said:
I'm asking for proof. Are you not familiar with burden of proof. You made some claims, you must prove them .


My claim is any prohibition of any item has proven time and time again to increase unregulated trade is said item, making it harder to manage and control. It also increases surrounding crimes.

So is this what we really think solves the issue?



ok, lets assume an increase.. what makes you think this increase is going to noticeable?

A 1% increase..may only be a 100 guns...for example..

when looking at other countries, like Australia...it's clear gun prohibition lowers gun crime, and other crimes are still lower than in the US.
So even if there is an increase, what makes you think it will be noticeable?

Also how does this increase surrounding crimes?
You think gangs are out there using guns in their name at the moment?
There's a good chance that the illegal gun trade, won't change at all.

You do agree that, even if guns can be bought illegally, it's not easy? (in countries like mainland europe).
What makes you think it would be easier in the US?


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: Glameow]
    #23376111 - 06/24/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Glameow said:
Quote:

Maroon said:
I'm asking for proof. Are you not familiar with burden of proof. You made some claims, you must prove them .


My claim is any prohibition of any item has proven time and time again to increase unregulated trade is said item, making it harder to manage and control. It also increases surrounding crimes.

So is this what we really think solves the issue?



ok, lets assume an increase.. what makes you think this increase is going to noticeable?

A 1% increase..may only be a 100 guns...for example..

when looking at other countries, like Australia...it's clear gun prohibition lowers gun crime, and other crimes are still lower than in the US.
So even if there is an increase, what makes you think it will be noticeable?

Also how does this increase surrounding crimes?
You think gangs are out there using guns in their name at the moment?
There's a good chance that the illegal gun trade, won't change at all.

You do agree that, even if guns can be bought illegally, it's not easy? (in countries like mainland europe).
What makes you think it would be easier in the US?




the reason it would be easier is the fact that half the country would think it to be BS that they cant have gun.  not to mention how many mills lathes and 3d printers there are in the usa.  right there is the means and motive.  then there is all those guns already in existence.  americans would never go for a gun buyback program.

  people say that drugs are easier to produce than guns but they are wrong. some drugs require large fields in the mountains to grow, then small labs in which to extract the active compounds from those plants.  and yet it gets done.  a gun requires a garage with two or three basic machines that are readily available. and some metal. 

banning guns would cause black market manufacturers to pop up.  and the corrupt government would probably pay the American gun manufacturers to go to third world countries and teach their criminal organizations to build guns, kinda like Americans taught Mexicans to make meth and Columbians to extract cocaine.


--------------------
Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: trscstghst]
    #23376201 - 06/24/16 06:08 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trscstghst said:

the reason it would be easier is the fact that half the country would think it to be BS that they cant have gun. 





for the billionth time, NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT BANNING ALL GUNS

also your post really points out the self-fulfilling prophecy around this black market talk.

I think what everyone pushing this argument means "If they commit this perceived slight against my "right" to unrestricted/unmonitored semi-auto rifle purchases then, I will be purchasing them illegally"

which really makes you question things about people.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: airclay]
    #23376233 - 06/24/16 06:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

it really surprises you that society as a whole has a mentality of.  "if you say I can't I will go out of my to"? 


I realize nobody is calling for a ban on guns, but they are calling for being able to strip a person of their rights without due process, which is scary as hell.  as well as banning semi auto weapons or at least reducing magazine capacities to 10 rnds or less. 

none the less, the technology is out there and guns will be made no matter what the law says.


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Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


Edited by trscstghst (06/24/16 06:25 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23376240 - 06/24/16 06:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Now can anyone tell me where I can get a rocket launcher on the black market? 



You know the rules of this site.  No discussion of illegal sources.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: trscstghst]
    #23376252 - 06/24/16 06:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trscstghst said:
but they are calling for being able to strip a person of their rights without due process,




Source?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: Enlil]
    #23376289 - 06/24/16 06:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Guantanamo bay


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23376304 - 06/24/16 07:00 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Guantanamo Bay doesn't house American Citizens.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: Enlil]
    #23376344 - 06/24/16 07:13 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Proof of concept.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23376358 - 06/24/16 07:16 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

As already noted.  Guantanamo doesn't house American citizens, therefore, it is not an example of stripping a person's rights without due process.  In fact it is an example of the opposite.  Enemy combatants were taken from military prisons in other countries where they had no rights and brought to Guantanamo Bay where they had to be given due process, albeit at a different level than American citizens get.


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23376391 - 06/24/16 07:25 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

its all over the news that the democrats want to make to where if you are on the "no fly list" or the "terrorist watch list" that you should be disqualified from buying a firearm. 


the cspan footage of the sit in with the signs that read "no fly no buy" should be enough


--------------------
Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: trscstghst]
    #23376394 - 06/24/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

due process not required to be placed on either of those lists


--------------------
Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: trscstghst] * 1
    #23376404 - 06/24/16 07:29 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

So a few wacky liberals are spewing wacky ideas?  Nothing new there.  Wacky liberals and wacky conservatives have been acting wacky since the beginning of wackdom. 

I thought you were implying that there was some sort of actual movement to "strip people of their rights without due process."


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: trscstghst]
    #23376406 - 06/24/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

if that isn't what they are pushing for they are being very misleading


--------------------
Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: trscstghst]
    #23376455 - 06/24/16 07:42 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

One thing you have to understand is that the proposal you're speaking of would require either that the lists be revamped to include due process or that the Constitution be amended.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Registered: 10/22/09
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23376465 - 06/24/16 07:45 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:



It's not a toy at all.  If you get a live round, it will fire it.  Rocket launchers are easy to get.  Rockets are a bit harder.



 
    It's an old wall decoration . I don't think the m72 Was designed to be reloaded .  It came with a rocket in it you fire it and throw it away . If you were using this thing in Vietnam you wouldn't of even had extra rockets laying around so the chances of finding a rocket and somehow figuring out how to make it fire again is probably not just hard but impossible .


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: psilynut]
    #23376495 - 06/24/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It's definitely possible, but certainly not easy. 

Still, it is a rocket launcher and easy to get in the U.S.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Registered: 10/22/09
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: Enlil]
    #23376975 - 06/24/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

You can buy all kinds of destructive devices , but the laws regulating the projectiles usually make it not worth it . The rounds have to be inert in most cases , depending on the size I think.
   
      The m72 was issued as a round of ammunition . I think from a legal standpoint the law would classify this as an inert round .  So you can call it a rocket launcher , a toy , a worthless metal tube  or watever you want you won't be wrong . But legally speaking I think what you said is inaccurate .
  Your the lawyer though so you tell me .


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: psilynut]
    #23377047 - 06/24/16 10:48 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Your the lawyer though so you tell me .




He already did.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: We know alcohol prohibition fails, drug prohibition fails, so what about gun prohibition? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23377059 - 06/24/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

my butt hurts all the time.


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