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OfflineFerather
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What other spawn substrates have you tried?
    #23347684 - 06/15/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Though i'd start a post about any experimental spawn substrates people are using or have tried.

It does not matter if ultimatly it failed, a failure is still good info.

----

For those who havent yet tried it, I'm going to test Carrot slices, link includes water content.

  • I can leave them out uncooked without contamination for quite some time.
  • They stay whole cooked and also hold water for a very long time.

Lets see if it works. They might turn mushy, or just fail.
Round 2 would be to use liquid carrots and paper.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23349245 - 06/15/16 11:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I read there is a delicacy in China I think where they grow oysters on shrimp shells.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23351054 - 06/16/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TravelAgency said:
I read there is a delicacy in China I think where they grow oysters on shrimp shells.




Weird and interesting. I wonder what micro nutrients it eats.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23351066 - 06/16/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Here is the carrots test, 12 hours later, using paper spawn samples.

   

Re-grown and starting to eat the carrots.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23353183 - 06/17/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Lot of sugar in carrots. I might be worried about the culture getting lazy or shocked.


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Offlinemorbiddoctor
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23353337 - 06/17/16 01:25 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yup. I like to read about aliens and mutalopes. I wish you success and prosperity. I will  continue eating popcorn. Despite my lack of Internet presents, i look forward to your presence here because experimental substrates are the best.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23353586 - 06/17/16 04:27 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Lot of sugar in carrots. I might be worried about the culture getting lazy or shocked.




You might be right, mostly growing on the paper atm.

   

After I will try carrots as a liquid fertilizer.


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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23353800 - 06/17/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

A tip to see how something will do on a certain media is to make agar with it. I did carrot agar a few times but found it did better when diluted and a bit of starch added to the mix. Some food for thought.


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OfflinevvHeavyvv
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23353940 - 06/17/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I messed with pumpkins for Halloween which seem somewhat similar.  The seeds colonized and worked as spawn.  The pulp/strands I used to supplement a few blocks, they contaminated.


edit:add pics


Edited by vvHeavyvv (06/17/16 09:37 AM)


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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: vvHeavyvv]
    #23353979 - 06/17/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:threadmonitor:


I've been playing around with Alfalfa a lot due to it's very high nutrition.  15-18% protein and a strong matrix from straw-like stalks for transport.


Seems a good combo for gourmet, medicinal and woodlovers.  Can get a cube bag for very cheap and it expands to a crazy volume


Edited by Snazz (06/17/16 09:22 AM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Snazz]
    #23354391 - 06/17/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks Snazz for your alfalfa info..

Do you find that your substrate gets too hot if you over do your alfalfa supplement percentage?


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Edited by micelio (06/17/16 11:03 AM)


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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: micelio]
    #23354565 - 06/17/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think it has much 'free nitrogen'  it's mostly bound in animo acids.


It can start turning to silage if I go too rich. Although that's yeast or something..  Sterilization should buy lots of time.  Limewater pasteurization works pretty slick as well


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Snazz]
    #23354803 - 06/17/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Thats some good data, keep it comming.


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Offlinehellolion
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23354970 - 06/17/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Lot of sugar in carrots. I might be worried about the culture getting lazy or shocked.




You might be right, mostly growing on the paper atm.

   

After I will try carrots as a liquid fertilizer.




It would seem to me that the size of the carrot pieces could also be a factor. They seem much too big for the mycelium to easily colonize.

Also, were the carrots organic? If not there could be a residual fungicidal compound still contained on/within the carrot.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: hellolion]
    #23355028 - 06/17/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The size should'nt be an issue. But good point with the organic.
#WTF@Myself, no they are not. Carrots mk2 inc.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23355060 - 06/17/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I have been experimenting with paper and Miracle-Gro® soluble plant food.
First I made a small sample, and placed a WBS lump into the middle.

----

After 3 days it looked like this:



10 days later it was used:



After 4.5 days:



----

Now i'm looking for organic methods.

Suggestions?


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Offlinehellolion
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23355090 - 06/17/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

From what I've read, and my personal experiences seem to back this up, substrate "particle" (not sure if there's a better word for this) size is always a factor in speed of colonization and health of the mycelium. Smaller particles are faster to colonize but provide less nutrition for the amount of effort taken to colonize, larger particles provide more nutrition but take a lot of effort. A mix of sizes is often recommended; that's why you'll sometimes see recommendations made for a fruiting substrate that is 10-30% woodchips, to 70-90% sawdust.

I would personally try food processing the carrots so that you get a mixture of smaller and larger chunks.

Keep us posted! I might try a similar experiment when I PC rye grains next week.

On the subject of organic equivalents to the Miracle Gro plant food, I'm not really that familiar with the Miracle Gro product and couldn't easily find what its active ingredients are or what they're providing to the soil. That said, your easiest option would be go to a good garden store and ask them what they sell that's comparable to the Miracle Gro that's organic.

Something else that might work as a similar but organic method would be to make a compost tea with a molasses and a high quality MATURE manure. All you need beyond that is a large bucket and an aquarium air pump and you'll have plenty of lovely organic liquid fertilizer in no time!


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: hellolion]
    #23355158 - 06/17/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Nice to know thanks for the info. Here is the label for the SPF.



Carrots seem to contain all the micro-nutrients I am after.

What I intend to do is liquidate the organic carrots.
And replace the SPF and water.

Carrots are 80% water.


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Offlineworowa
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23355285 - 06/17/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Carrot pulp works great with king oysters.

that became

And here are some on porrdige oats


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Offlineworowa
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: worowa]
    #23355290 - 06/17/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

...oops, just saw you wanted spawn alternatives, whereas these where fruiting substrates.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: worowa]
    #23355381 - 06/17/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Fruiting substrate or not that's pretty cool with the kings. Oysters are beast


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: worowa]
    #23357414 - 06/18/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

worowa said:
...oops, just saw you wanted spawn alternatives, whereas these where fruiting substrates.




No thats fine, mate. Great that you got carrots to work.
You give the results, I can skip the testing.

Thanks, time for carrot + paper testing.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23358465 - 06/18/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Confirmed, oyster eats carrot, even non organic ones.
Thanks for the input "hellolion" and "worowa".

   

It seems I was right with the micro nutrients.
Slow but strong and very white growth.

Carrot as liquid fertilizer next.


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Offlinehellolion
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23359271 - 06/18/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the update! I figured there was a good chance it would eat into those carrots eventually, even if they have a little residual fungicidal junk on them. Oyster mushrooms are pretty resiliant and can overcome a lot, it's just a question of how long it will take them.

Really cool to see progress, looking forward to seeing what you do next!


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: hellolion]
    #23359910 - 06/19/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I itend to liquidate the carrots, heat them up and add them to paper pellets, no added water.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23360581 - 06/19/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Here is how I turned carrots and paper into my test substrate.



Thanks again guys.

----

Items:

Blender and, or, vegetable masher.
Waste Paper or pellets.
Carrots, and water.

----

First weigh your paper pellets.




I am doing 4 parts carrots.




And 4 parts water.




Add the carrots and water to the blender.




Blend and mix in with the paper.




Microwave for 2:40 and mix.




Reheat for 40 seconds.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23360987 - 06/19/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Here is the finished spawn substrate, and my tissue sample to paper + SPF test.
Left, paper + SPF, after 2.5 weeks. Right, paper + carrot, new.

   

I inoculated using a colonized paper spawn sample.
Lets see if and how well it grows.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23363208 - 06/20/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Here is the original carrot test, which I am going to throw away.

           

I got all the information I needed, and also from "worowa".
No contamination, but very rich in micro nutrients.

Slow but very strong growth.
Fingers crossed.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23367012 - 06/21/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

So the carrot and paper sample has begun to grow after 48 hours.
However too small for images, maybe on day 3 or 4.

----

The clone to Paper + SPF spawn finished today so I used it.
The PSPF spawn is under the line, at the bottom.

   


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23370121 - 06/22/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Carrot and paper sample, successful after 2 days, here are day 3 images.

           

Anyone ever tried any similar experiments?


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23370131 - 06/22/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Pretty damn fascinating Ferather:thumbup:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23370183 - 06/22/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Well tbh it boils down to two things. Food or energy and micro nutrients.

Based of nutrition guides, Food: Plant fiber, Starch, Sugar.
We want plant fiber, no less than 50% is ideal.

As far as micro nutrients, its hard to say.
I use this site to compare foods.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23373931 - 06/23/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Carrot and paper day 4, looking twice as strong as day 3, getting stronger too.

   

Not quite as good as PSPF though. Here are some images to compare.

   

WBS sample, day 3. Tissue sample, day 4.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23376130 - 06/24/16 05:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The PSPF tissue sample spawn to more PSPF is going well.

Before and after, 3 days later:

   

Sorry for the image quality.


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23383914 - 06/26/16 11:57 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Ferather, I remember reading somewhere, and I cant remember where, that King Oysters are commonly found in carrot fields and fruiting off of carrots.
Anyways, thought that might be an interesting note for you regarding the carrots and future experiments with them.


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OfflineFerather
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
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Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23384054 - 06/26/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Hmm thats interesting, Golden oyster on carrot and paper isn't doing much better than just paper.
King Oysters may have a different nutrient requirement or digestion method.

Some wood loving species only grow on certain types of wood or plant.
I bet its to do with micro nutrients or digestion method.


Here is a Zinc example, made up:

(A) Zinc-Sulphate
(B) Zinc-Nitrate

Lets say species 'X' can breakdown and digest chemical 'A'. So it gets zinc.
Now with chemical 'B' instead, it can't breakdown the bond, it dies.

Plant 'X' produces chemical 'A', the mycelium grows.
Plant 'Y' produces chemical 'B', no growth.

Micro nutrients + digestibility.

Thanks for your input.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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OfflineFerather
Mycological
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23414099 - 07/05/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone had success with teabags as spawn? If so what steps where taken?

Thanks.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineLennybernadino
Amazon grower
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 770
Loc: Iquitos, Peru
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23414302 - 07/05/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Anyone had success with teabags as spawn? If so what steps where taken?

Thanks.



Quote:

Ferather said:
Hmm thats interesting, Golden oyster on carrot and paper isn't doing much better than just paper.
King Oysters may have a different nutrient requirement or digestion method.

Some wood loving species only grow on certain types of wood or plant.
I bet its to do with micro nutrients or digestion method.


Here is a Zinc example, made up:

(A) Zinc-Sulphate
(B) Zinc-Nitrate

Lets say species 'X' can breakdown and digest chemical 'A'. So it gets zinc.
Now with chemical 'B' instead, it can't breakdown the bond, it dies.

Plant 'X' produces chemical 'A', the mycelium grows.
Plant 'Y' produces chemical 'B', no growth.

Micro nutrients + digestibility.

Thanks for your input.




  Pleurotus eryngii lives naturally eating the dying roots of other plants in the carrot family. And are adapted to live is weak parasites to the roots of herbaceous plants , especially the carrot family.


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Invisibleweetsie
unlicensed tub surgeon
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Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 572
Loc: United Kingdom Flag
Re: What other spawn substrates have you tried? [Re: Ferather]
    #23415514 - 07/05/16 11:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Anyone had success with teabags as spawn? If so what steps where taken?

Thanks.




Ive not tried it but considered it as I go through several thousand bags a year they add up quickly.

Tea is quite spongy with the right water content which makes me think it won't have the same problems with becoming anaerobic like straight coffee grounds.


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