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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven * 1
    #23345747 - 06/15/16 01:45 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

LED ZEPPELIN’S JIMMY Page and Robert Plant have appeared in court to deny accusations that they “lifted” the opening bars to iconic rock song Stairway to Heaven.

The musicians arrived to a throng of reporters at Los Angeles federal court, where a jury of four men and four women was played their anthemic hit.

Spirit, a psychedelic LA band that enjoyed a niche following but never attained the superstardom of Zeppelin, claims the melancholic guitar that opens Stairway was taken from its instrumental track Taurus.

Spirit’s guitarist Randy Wolfe — who went by the nickname Randy California — never took legal action and drowned in Hawaii in 1997, but a lawsuit was filed by his trustee and friend Michael Skidmore, who was in court.

“This case can be summarised in six words: Give credit where credit is due,” said Francis Malofiy, Skidmore’s attorney.

Malofiy told the jury it could look at the lawsuit “almost like a taste test”, asking: “Do these things taste the same? Do these things sound the same?”

The attorney played a recording for the jury of the introduction to Stairway, describing the arpeggio as a “lifted composition”.

At issue is whether Led Zeppelin had access to 1967’s Taurus before recording Stairway in London in December 1970 and January 1971.

No recollection

Zeppelin opened for Spirit when the hard British rockers — Plant, Page, John Paul Jones and the since deceased John Bonham — made their US debut on 26 December 1968 in Denver.

But surviving members of Led Zeppelin have submitted testimony that they never had substantive interaction with Spirit or listened to the band’s music.

Defence attorney Peter Anderson told jurors that Page (72) and Plant (67) were not familiar with Spirit or its output, and that Page had no recollection of ever hearing Taurus.

Anderson played the first two minutes and 14 seconds of Stairway as Page nodded along. He said:

    Stairway to Heaven was written by Jimmy Page and Robert Plant and them alone, period.

Skidmore has not specified the damages he is seeking, but various stories in the music press have posited a possible settlement at anywhere between a symbolic $1 (about 89 cent here) plus a writing credit to as much as $40 million (€35 million).

The lawsuit speaks of Led Zeppelin’s “deep-rooted history of lifting composition from blues artists and other songwriters who they have repeatedly failed to credit”.

It lists disputes over 16 other Led Zeppelin songs, many of which were settled by giving the complainant a songwriting credit and royalties, including classics Whole Lotta Love and Babe I’m Gonna Leave You.

‘Prodigy’

The court heard from California’s younger sister, horse trainer and musician Janet Wolfe, who described her brother as a “prodigy”.

Wolfe, of Ventura, California, recalled how the family had travelled to New York in 1966, where Randy, then just 15, met and befriended Jimi Hendrix.

Led Zeppelin-Copyright Suit Plane and Page perform in 1985. Source: Rusty Kennedy/AP

The rock legend hired the youngster to play back-up guitar, and gave him the name Randy California to distinguish him from another Randy in the band, the court heard.

Wolfe (62) recalled how California had complained later in life about Led Zeppelin plagiarizing Taurus, which he had written for a girlfriend.

“It was something that upset him for many, many years,” she said.

Multi-instrumentalist Jay Ferguson (69) who played with Spirit and later wrote music for film and television, described Taurus as a “really special number”.

    It was a palate cleanser… it was beautiful. It was a different style of music than anything else we played in the shows.

Ferguson, who has written music for Arnold Schwarzenegger action movie The Terminator (1984) and comedy series The Office, said Spirit played the song at the majority of their concerts.

He described having a “meet and greet” with Plant at a Spirit gig in Britain in the 1970s, recalling he was “flattered” that the singer had turned up to see the band.

The trial is expected to last about five days.
http://www.thejournal.ie/stairway-to-heaven-taurus-2824470-Jun2016/

Which song of theirs didn't Jimmy Page/Led Zeppelin steal?

I feel if they put as much energy into their own creativity as they did into stealing others' music, they'd never of been heard of.

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InvisibleAcidic_SlothM
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: LobsterSauce] * 1
    #23345778 - 06/15/16 02:06 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

LobsterSauce said:
Wolfe, of Ventura, California




hahaha.  neat.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Acidic_Sloth]
    #23345844 - 06/15/16 02:41 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

People have killed themselves to Stairway to Heaven... My dad once spoke of his friend who did. If I was on the jury I would vote in favor of Zeppelin because this case is rubbish wealth seeking. It's not even the author taking this to court.

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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #23345987 - 06/15/16 04:24 AM (8 years, 22 hours ago)

That Taurus track sounds like it has a little bit of plagerism from Bach or handel or somesuch.

If Zep were inspired, slightly, by the tune so fucking what, the two numbers are worlds apart so Fuckem.


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InvisibleAtreyu
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: dixienormous]
    #23345993 - 06/15/16 04:26 AM (8 years, 22 hours ago)

The song from Spirit is pretty good. I see the similarity but I think they are for the most part two completely different songs.

There was a 1980 song "Under Pressure" by Queen and David Bowie that Vanilla ice sampled but Mr. Ice never got permission to use it. No lawsuit was filed, but it is possible that V. Ice agreed to pay Queen and Bowie a settlement.


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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Atreyu] * 1
    #23346080 - 06/15/16 06:12 AM (8 years, 20 hours ago)

Led Zeppelin sound like a paedophile priest from the 70's whose only now being accused of sexual crimes from back then.

"Never heard of them", even though they opened for them at a concert.

From 0:58 to 1:07 is a very similar progression is not the exact same.

At 1:08 is when Jimmy Page altered the chord to not be the same song any more.

Obviously, it is a money grab attempt but Jimmy Page would steal a granny's favourite whistle melody and call it his own.

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OfflineUncleCid
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #23346124 - 06/15/16 06:34 AM (8 years, 20 hours ago)

Sounds like people are just looking for free handouts to me

Fuck this other band. I'm taking Zeppelins side. Stairway is an epic song

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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: UncleCid]
    #23346251 - 06/15/16 07:42 AM (8 years, 19 hours ago)

like zeppelin, on of my favorite bands actually.  there, is on the other hand no denying that they have a history of plagiarism.  is it coincidence in the case of stairway to heaven, maybe. 

I'm sure we have all seen this


Edited by trscstghst (06/15/16 07:45 AM)

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Offlinehex_enduction
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: trscstghst]
    #23346587 - 06/15/16 09:31 AM (8 years, 17 hours ago)

Led Zeppelin totally plagiarized Spirit and bit many songs from many other artists. It's a well known and EASILY verifiable fact. I love them, but I do wish they'd simply give credit where it's due. All music is imitation in some form or another, but denying the influence of others just makes you look like a massive douchebag.


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InvisibleRas Rising
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: hex_enduction]
    #23346637 - 06/15/16 09:57 AM (8 years, 16 hours ago)

originality died long ago.
:ruggedwink:


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Ras Rising]
    #23346659 - 06/15/16 10:02 AM (8 years, 16 hours ago)

it's not hard to completely copy someone elses song while in free thought
i used to do it all the time when i practiced thinking the songs and melody's were completely original
then realizing they were a popular song stuck in my head just slightly different

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InvisibleRas Rising
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Konyap]
    #23346681 - 06/15/16 10:08 AM (8 years, 16 hours ago)

you can only bend the waves so many ways :shrug:


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:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: LobsterSauce] * 1
    #23347565 - 06/15/16 02:22 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

LobsterSauce said:
Led Zeppelin sound like a paedophile priest from the 70's whose only now being accused of sexual crimes from back then.

"Never heard of them", even though they opened for them at a concert.

From 0:58 to 1:07 is a very similar progression is not the exact same.

At 1:08 is when Jimmy Page altered the chord to not be the same song any more.

Obviously, it is a money grab attempt but Jimmy Page would steal a granny's favourite whistle melody and call it his own.




I think a few of the other things they stole are now being credited on re-issues, though I don't know about any money involved.

Dazed and Confused is probably the most horrendous theft, but there are absolutely tons of them. Led Zeppelin had a nice sound, but they really were thieving, lying pieces of shit.



Actually, Hats off to Harper might be the worst, since they wrote it as a sort of thank you for all the Roy Harper stuff they'd "borrowed", and it wasn't even an original song in itself. Hahaha.


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InvisibleAlexestalex
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: LobsterSauce] * 1
    #23347584 - 06/15/16 02:29 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

I could care less if they stole it or not. Led Zeppelin is still dope as fuck and Page and Plant are legends.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Alexestalex] * 1
    #23347591 - 06/15/16 02:31 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

They had a really good sound, they're just shitty people for not giving credit or money to people who had a lot less of both than they did themselves.


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Offlinewhattaf
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23347607 - 06/15/16 02:36 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

The notion that one can have exclusive ownership a given sequence of sound waves and that reproducing it should be outlawed is preposterous beyond belief, and anyone who perpetuates this notion or agrees with it need to cease all their activity on this planet until they regain sanity. For the sake of everyone. :facepalm:

Jeez.

Edited by whattaf (06/15/16 02:37 PM)

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: whattaf] * 1
    #23347619 - 06/15/16 02:40 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

Again, check Dazed and Confused above. That was recorded before Led Zeppelin was formed. Copied lyrics and vocal nuances alongside near identical musical backing is not a coincidence.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23347637 - 06/15/16 02:47 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

It's a form of whitewashing that only gets criticized if its from a hack, unless it's punk.

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Konyap]
    #23347643 - 06/15/16 02:48 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

What now?


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23347648 - 06/15/16 02:49 PM (8 years, 12 hours ago)

stealing songs from black people is something mainstream does and prospers doing.

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Konyap]
    #23347662 - 06/15/16 02:53 PM (8 years, 11 hours ago)

Oh, I didn't get what you meant by whitewashing. Yeah, you're right. I guess it's a bit different with folk songs, but even then musicians who aren't dickheads credit them as "Traditional, arranged by..." rather than making it seem like they wrote them.

I think Eric Clapton, despite his later racist outbursts, personally made sure that living musicians whose songs he used got their royalties even if they were living piss poor in some obscure part of the rural South and could never have done anything if he'd fucked them over.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: whattaf] * 1
    #23347672 - 06/15/16 02:55 PM (8 years, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
stealing songs from black people is something mainstream does and prospers doing.




Now adays that is done mostly via sampling and people actually get the credit they deserve...



Quote:

whattaf said:
The notion that one can have exclusive ownership a given sequence of sound waves and that reproducing it should be outlawed is preposterous beyond belief, and anyone who perpetuates this notion or agrees with it need to cease all their activity on this planet until they regain sanity. For the sake of everyone. :facepalm:

Jeez.




That is a huge dramatization...  Its not about owning the music its about owning up to the fact you were "inspired" by or borrowed from older music.

Look at it this way, tons of people do covers and its fine. But when you cover an old obscure song and don't give credit people think you wrote it and that's plagiarism and is the opposite of what creativity and music is all about... Even worse is just borrowing part of a song and trying to hide in amongst your own work like Zeppelin has done here and in many other tunes.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: musiclover420]
    #23347687 - 06/15/16 03:00 PM (8 years, 11 hours ago)

Exactly.

People get insanely defensive about Led Zeppelin and Bob Dylan and a lot of people who do this. It's disappointing when you find out a musician you like is a bit of a dickhead thief, but it doesn't mean you have to stop listening to them. Unless you find the original songs and they're way, way better.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23347749 - 06/15/16 03:20 PM (8 years, 11 hours ago)

I think its pretty funny people get so defensive around stuff like this, they tend to take it so personally.

I love when I hear a musician borrow a riff from a classic tune though usually it is really a homage to the greats.

It's very disappointing especially when people purposefully re arrange parts to make it sound different/ more original.

I would love to do my own takes on some classic songs but no matter how much I re arranged them I would still list it as a cover.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: musiclover420]
    #23347827 - 06/15/16 03:41 PM (8 years, 11 hours ago)

Arranging harp pieces for guitar is pretty triumphant. I used to be relatively good at that. The big man Beethoven himself always gave credit when he was doing an arrangement and not an original piece.

I think people get more angry about Bob Dylan's plagiarism than Led Zeppelin's. Maybe cause they think he's a civil rights hero or something. I've made people really flip out just by playing them folk songs that he clearly ripped. FOOLS.

I think Jimmy Page was probably the driving force behind the theft since he was already doing it in the Yardbirds. "White Summer" is Davy Graham's exact arrangement of "She moved through the fair" and he doesn't credit the arrangement or the fact that it's a folk song.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23347969 - 06/15/16 04:23 PM (8 years, 10 hours ago)

Yeah that sounds like a fun process, I wish I could play the guitar more like a harp but I don't practice rythm guitar enough :sad:

Bob certainly is an iconic musician so I can see how people would get like that, it is very foolish though.

I don't know enough to really say but I feel like Page is fairly notorious for musical theft, didn't know that about the Yardbirds though. Interesting.
:strokebeard:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #23348451 - 06/15/16 07:00 PM (8 years, 7 hours ago)

Taurus literally sounds nothing like Stairway

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348602 - 06/15/16 08:00 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

That fuckin riff they ripped off sure does.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: lowbrow]
    #23348605 - 06/15/16 08:01 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

No

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: deucedbi9]
    #23348668 - 06/15/16 08:21 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

dixienormous said:
People have killed themselves to Stairway to Heaven... My dad once spoke of his friend who did. If I was on the jury I would vote in favor of Zeppelin because this case is rubbish wealth seeking. It's not even the author taking this to court.




Now you can tell your dad his buddy killed himself to a song thats famous riff was stolen from Spirit.
Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
That Taurus track sounds like it has a little bit of plagerism from Bach or handel or somesuch.

If Zep were inspired, slightly, by the tune so fucking what, the two numbers are worlds apart so Fuckem.




Oh, so its okay if they tour with another band and steal their riff to make one of the most popular songs in the world and give no credit?  Zep is even being little bitches about it.  Fuck Led Zeppelin used to cover another Spirit song when they toured together.  Fresh Garbage.

I hope Spirit rapes em in court.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348670 - 06/15/16 08:23 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
No



Then why do they sound the same?


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: lowbrow]
    #23348678 - 06/15/16 08:25 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Then why do they sound the same?




They don't.

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348694 - 06/15/16 08:31 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Ya they do.If you want to keep playing dumb you can, so far it looks like your pretty good at it.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348695 - 06/15/16 08:31 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Who cares if they did. Fuck, they probably did. It sounds like something they would do. It's rock and roll though, and that other band didn't do it as well, obviously.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348698 - 06/15/16 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:

lowbrow said:
Then why do they sound the same?




They don't.




I think anyone with half a musical ear can tell they sound very similiar at least...

At the very least that spirit track inspired stairway and much more likely they actually "borrowed" part of it.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: lowbrow]
    #23348700 - 06/15/16 08:33 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

All the Zep fans are butthurt.  This shits funneezz!


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: dixienormous]
    #23348719 - 06/15/16 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

dixienormous said:
People have killed themselves to Stairway to Heaven... My dad once spoke of his friend who did. If I was on the jury I would vote in favor of Zeppelin because this case is rubbish wealth seeking. It's not even the author taking this to court.




if you listen to the two songs you can hear that there is a little similarity in
about 10 seconds of the songs but even that isnt really the same

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23348785 - 06/15/16 08:57 PM (8 years, 5 hours ago)

It's exactly the same. Learn how to chord voicings. The only difference is minor alteration in what the right hand does.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: lowbrow]
    #23348848 - 06/15/16 09:15 PM (8 years, 5 hours ago)

Doesn't sound similar at all. Where's a single part where it actually sounds similar? I listened to almost the whole song and I have heard Stairway countless times.

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348856 - 06/15/16 09:17 PM (8 years, 5 hours ago)

And I can easily identify different sounds and similarities in songs that most people I know can't.

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23348870 - 06/15/16 09:20 PM (8 years, 5 hours ago)

Ok I just listened to it again and now I hear it at about 43 seconds in but..it literally only sounds similar to Stairway for like 2 to 3 seconds and then it just sounds way different.

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23349063 - 06/15/16 10:14 PM (8 years, 4 hours ago)

The descending bass line over that high A minor is pretty common and Davy Graham's version of "Cry Me a River" does it almost identically, but Taurus and Stairway to Heaven have an incredibly similar backing track. The wind on Stairway to Heaven is incredibly similar to the strings on Taurus.

The lawsuit is a big bogus since the guy who wrote the song apparently never cared enough to do anything while he was alive.

Anyway, it's definitely not their worst plagiarism. Dazed and Confused is fucking unforgivable.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23349089 - 06/15/16 10:21 PM (8 years, 4 hours ago)

For anyone who cares, here is "White Summer" and a song that it clearly wasn't stolen from at all.





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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23376263 - 06/24/16 06:36 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

nothing wrong with using music written by another, just don't say you wrote it.  the lyrics to stairway are obviously original.  the music they were paired with was not


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: trscstghst]
    #23377626 - 06/24/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Update:  led Zeppelin just won their case. A jury decided after 15 min of deliberating that stairway to heaven did not copy the spirit song.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Masked]
    #23377667 - 06/24/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Although I sided with Zeppelin before the decision was made, its kinda fucked that the jury were not allowed to hear the spirit song.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Masked]
    #23377684 - 06/24/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Masked said:
Update:  led Zeppelin just won their case. A jury decided after 15 min of deliberating that stairway to heaven did not copy the spirit song.




Of course they are going to win. It was over 40 years ago and they are rock gods. I hope that it at least serves the purpose of letting more people know that this was a very common practice with a large amount of their music.

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Deadmaker]
    #23377697 - 06/24/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I saw Jimmy Page last night at the Sunset Marquis, he doesn't seem too bothered by anything.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: JohnnieYen]
    #23377715 - 06/24/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

They had a professional musician play both arrangements I heard?


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Masked]
    #23377746 - 06/24/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Masked said:
They had a professional musician play both arrangements I heard?




Why would they do that instead of just playing the songs back to back?

Seems like a lot more room for error and or differences between the two if you have someone play them live, professional or no.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: musiclover420]
    #23377874 - 06/24/16 03:38 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

this case is a headache.  even if a small portion was borrowed, the vast majority of the song is not only original but epic.  i mean scales and harmonies are borrowed, why not a riff or two?  it does strike me as peculiar that they opened for this band in between the production of the Spirit song and the creation of Stairway.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: bass head]
    #23377884 - 06/24/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I'd be surprised if everything they ever recorded wasn't stolen


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23377915 - 06/24/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

To bad the bad guys won.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: deucedbi9]
    #23377974 - 06/24/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Stairway was taken from a Terry Reid song.  They just mixed it up a bit.  Terry didn't say anything because music is universal.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23378108 - 06/24/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
I'd be surprised if everything they ever recorded wasn't stolen




Yea but listen to the original version of When the Levee Breaks and then Led Zeppelins "version".
They really did make it all their own and way better.

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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23378125 - 06/24/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I wouldn't say better by any means, but I'm a Blues fan. They did make it their own, though


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace] * 1
    #23379534 - 06/25/16 03:16 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

on their original albums they give no credit to anyone for any song.  they say they wrote it all.  after multiple lawsuits, their newer remastered albums credit the original artists for writing many of the songs.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: trscstghst]
    #23379542 - 06/25/16 03:23 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like they've been sued over this kind of thing shit loads of times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_plagiarism

I think Jake Holmes never came after them for some reason. Maybe he's just a really nice guy.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox] * 1
    #23379598 - 06/25/16 03:55 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

"thing shit"


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23379914 - 06/25/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

it would've been cool if they at least admitted they were heavily inspired by the spirit song. it definitely seems to be the case. typical david & goliath scenario


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: berrymybody]
    #23379931 - 06/25/16 07:32 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Don't you just hate it when you fall off a horse, get severe brain damage and then have Jimmy Page steal your riff? Poor bastard.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23380584 - 06/25/16 11:57 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

literal insult to injury


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox] * 1
    #23380621 - 06/25/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

"Inspired by" is about a big a stretch as you can make IMO.
The two songs are completely and utterly different..
So the opening hook has a similar chord progression?
Big fucking deal?
Taurus is a noodling go nowhere chord jam
Stairway is a fucking epic

Look at popular music today. Jesus fuck. Many songs are exact carbon copy rip offs of others.
This is not even in the same ballpark



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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Shroomism]
    #23380629 - 06/25/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

How about Dazed and Confused?


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23380654 - 06/25/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Again.. similar intro.. but not the same song at all. Most music is inspired by others.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Shroomism]
    #23380662 - 06/25/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe they just ate the same acid, and part of the trip was hearing that tune. That's waht I'm going with.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23380668 - 06/25/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Whole lotta love... that might be their worst offense..


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Shroomism]
    #23380675 - 06/25/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Woody guthrie is to blame for all of this you know.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Shroomism]
    #23380677 - 06/25/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Leadbelly would have killed all of them if he was alive when they stole his song.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23380684 - 06/25/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Oh man that would have been badass! Leadbelly was the man! We need more murder in music.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox]
    #23380693 - 06/25/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Well, Blues songs are passed around and covered so much. I mean, a lot of shit Leadbelly recorded was stuff he didn't write. Stuff that has been passed down through the community. That's how folk music works, and that's all the Blues is, so I really doubt he would


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: EllisDSox] * 1
    #23380700 - 06/25/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

That's why they waited until he was dead.
But ya man I dunno if you know this but that's how music evolves.
Bands cover other bands, they write similar music in their own style, add their own twists.
All genres of music is just an evolution of something else.

Rock came from blues and folk evolved into metal and then technical melodic motherfucking death metal.
Beyond Creation is ripping off Led Zeppelin?

But yeah man that's like one of the best things about music, it's stupid as fuck when people think they can own or "patent" a fucking chord progression.

Yeah it's one thing if someone just completely rips you off exactly and steals your shit, it's another entirely when they are inspired by and go on to create something completely different.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23380702 - 06/25/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I dunno man. He had a temper.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Shroomism]
    #23380706 - 06/25/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Hell, the entire basis of the "British Invasion" was Brits covering the Blues.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: j3danentz]
    #23380710 - 06/25/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

j3danentz said:
I dunno man. He had a temper.




I realize, but that's something that's done. Hell, half of everything he recorded were "covers"


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23380711 - 06/25/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

All musicians are inspired by other musicians, that's just how it is.


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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23380712 - 06/25/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Modern music is just a fusion of african tribal beats with classical influences. Is beethoven gonna start suing people? NOPE, public domain!


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Offlinej3danentz
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23380714 - 06/25/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:

j3danentz said:
I dunno man. He had a temper.




I realize, but that's something that's done. Hell, half of everything he recorded were "covers"




Is it possible to cover yourself?


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23380718 - 06/25/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like it is indeed an old folk song. I thought he wrote it. He'd still have killed them, though. Nothing wrong with playing old folk and blues songs, but pretending you wrote them is pretty shitty. Stealing songs from currently living people you actually know and not giving them credit or money is far worse. Led Zeppelin have done both extensively.

I'll drop this, anyway. People are very defensive about this band for some reason. If someone can genuinely hear the original Dazed and Confused and think the Led Zeppelin version isn't stolen from it, then nothing is going to change their mind.

You can be a thieving wanker and still make good music. Robert Johnson commandeered Skip James songs without giving credit and it doesn't mean he's a bad musician, it just means he was a prick.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: Shroomism]
    #23380721 - 06/25/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
That's why they waited until he was dead.
But ya man I dunno if you know this but that's how music evolves.
Bands cover other bands, they write similar music in their own style, add their own twists.
All genres of music is just an evolution of something else.

Rock came from blues and folk evolved into metal and then technical melodic motherfucking death metal.
Beyond Creation is ripping off Led Zeppelin?

But yeah man that's like one of the best things about music, it's stupid as fuck when people think they can own or "patent" a fucking chord progression.

Yeah it's one thing if someone just completely rips you off exactly and steals your shit, it's another entirely when they are inspired by and go on to create something completely different.




Dazed and Confused, yes?

Last time I post in here, I swear.


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: j3danentz]
    #23380724 - 06/25/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

j3danentz said:
Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:

j3danentz said:
I dunno man. He had a temper.




I realize, but that's something that's done. Hell, half of everything he recorded were "covers"




Is it possible to cover yourself?




He didn't write them. That's what I was saying.


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[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
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Offlineberrymybody
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: j3danentz]
    #23380830 - 06/25/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

j3danentz said:
Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:

j3danentz said:
I dunno man. He had a temper.




I realize, but that's something that's done. Hell, half of everything he recorded were "covers"




Is it possible to cover yourself?




john fogerty was sued by his record label for performing songs that he wrote. yay capitalism

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Offlineberrymybody
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: berrymybody]
    #23380836 - 06/25/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

previous comment was kind of off topic but ya.

i totally get what you're saying shroomism, it's just sad because they aren't as successful i guess. but led zepplin is greatness either way


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Edited by berrymybody (06/25/16 01:26 PM)

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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23380847 - 06/25/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Hell, the entire basis of the "British Invasion" was Brits covering the Blues.



I saw the british invasion tour back in 1984, Page and many others were there and they played an 11 lead guitar version of stairway to heaven.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace] * 1
    #23381212 - 06/25/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Hell, the entire basis of the "British Invasion" was Brits covering the Blues.




I said I would drop this, but I was lying. The British Invasion was the result of a new form of rock (admittedly influenced by blues, folk and motown) that was unique in terms of music, lyrics and song structure. I suppose early Rolling Stones were basically just a cover band, but The Beatles, The Kinks and the other British bands spearheading the whole thing developed a unique sound that fit very well with the times. Cross-cultural musical influence is fantastic and has produced some of the greatest art of all time- outright plagiarism is not the same thing as influence.

People in this thread just don't seem to understand the distinction between influence and plagiarism. Folk and blues music generally develops slowly and often times the composers are unknown, but anyone with some semblance of morality at least has the decency to credit the song as "traditional" rather than under their own name.

Beethoven had influences, Carolan had influences, The Beatles had influences, and no one would deny this. The issue is about unqualified theft of another artist's material being carried out by people who don't even have the basic decency to give credit or finance to the people who wrote the songs that made them famous. Even if you massively improve a song, credit should be given to its originator.

"Don't Think Twice It's All Right" is a far better song than "Who's going to buy you ribbon when I'm gone?", but the lack of acknowledgement of the source is just bullshit.


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Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Led Zeppelin denies stealing opening chords of Stairway to Heaven [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23381422 - 06/25/16 04:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Hell, the entire basis of the "British Invasion" was Brits covering the Blues.




Oh well, at least some good came out of all that slavery, eh.


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