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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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To case or not to case
    #23344427 - 06/14/16 06:05 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Hey guys. I have a weird very random splitting headache right now, worst headache I ever had so I'm gonna make this short and sweet.

I've got a tray of WBS spawned to coir that just hit full colonization. I have a few other quarts of spawn but only started one cause I'm waiting on gypsum to arrive in the mail to add to those and peat moss for those casings. Wanted to get a grow done asap so started this without those ingredients. MY head is fucking killing me! ah so should I just case with straight verm or not at all or? Coir isn't a casing anymore right?

Oh and also I forgot to cover all exposed grains, I just mixed. I really hope this headache stops soon this is unbearable i've never felt anything like this. Wish I had some shrooms to cure it, its agonizing.


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"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23344608 - 06/14/16 06:55 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Sprinkle some peat moss on top.  Exposed grains will invite earlier contams

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Snazz]
    #23344953 - 06/14/16 08:20 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Designer Drugs said:
I have a few other quarts of spawn but only started one cause I'm waiting on gypsum to arrive in the mail to add to those and peat moss for those casings. Wanted to get a grow done asap so started this without those ingredients. MY head is fucking killing me! ah so should I just case with straight verm or not at all or? Coir isn't a casing anymore right?





I don't have any peat moss that's why I'm asking

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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23345199 - 06/14/16 09:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, thought you were waiting on gypsum (which is a mineral supplement for bulk mainly).  My bad.



Vermiculite will work, if you have it.  Coir is used in a blend for some casing recipes.

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Snazz]
    #23345260 - 06/14/16 10:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

casing is a top layer over the substrate, preferably less nutritious than coir.

But straight verm is kinda amateur. If all you have to case with is verm I would just leave it as-is until you can find some peat moss to mix with that verm and pasteurize it. It it starts pinning before you find adequate casing then just leave it as-is.


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #23345323 - 06/14/16 10:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I definitely found pure verm my least favorite.  The look, texture and retention qualities seemed subpar.  Potting soil always got brown specks (no idea if it's salt or mold lol)


Wax paper or some other covering can also help during the knotting phase.


Love sphagnum :heart:

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Snazz]
    #23345649 - 06/15/16 12:57 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I would suggest casing just so you can learn the technique of using one. Thats what I'm doing now, and I just used straight coir. Next time I will use Coir and Verm. The nutrition in coir encourages the mycelium to want to colonize the whole casing before pinning or at least it kinda seemed that way. My casing did not fully colonize but it shrank on the sides as if it was being consumed so I just assume the apparent is true. CVG is like one of the best substrates/casing mixes, ain't it? Still hear people loving peat, and I also heard cactus soil is a great casing? Straight verm is not for me.....at all. lol


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InvisibleTimmy Meow
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: camplo]
    #23345901 - 06/15/16 03:14 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

If your fruiting chamber has the right environment, you don't even need a casing for cubes.

Here's one without a casing


Turned out JUST as beautiful as my others that had a casing.

I've never tried verm alone as a casing so can't recommend it. If in doubt, go without? :ohwell:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Timmy Meow]
    #23345920 - 06/15/16 03:28 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Straight verm from the bag is great, so is not casing at all

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InvisibleZiran
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23345950 - 06/15/16 03:54 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Straight verm from the bag is great, so is not casing at all




this is what I've been doing. seems to work pretty well honestly.


--------------------
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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Ziran]
    #23346070 - 06/15/16 06:05 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

think im gonna go straight verm, unless I can find some potting soil or peat at ace hardware or something.


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23346176 - 06/15/16 07:07 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Designer Drugs said:
think im gonna go straight verm, unless I can find some potting soil or peat at ace hardware or something.



uhhh I would use straight verm over potting soil any day. in fact, I don't think I'd ever consider potting soil.

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23346203 - 06/15/16 07:19 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

oh I see, I heard that the Jiffy MIx potting soil was the same as peat/verm or something like that though, is that true?


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"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23346204 - 06/15/16 07:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Also if I use straight verm, do I need to incubate again after I add the verm casing or can I add the verm and throw it straight into fruiting?


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23357787 - 06/18/16 11:35 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I got some peat moss. Also have lime, verm, and gypsum. Can anyone point me to a good tek for the portions I should use with these? I don't have a ph stick to test so i need to get the measurements right with them lime and stuff, thats pretty important right?


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23357804 - 06/18/16 11:39 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

just sprinkle the verm on top and then spray it with some water

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Invisibleuncle_rico
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23357846 - 06/18/16 11:50 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Designer Drugs said:
I got some peat moss. Also have lime, verm, and gypsum. Can anyone point me to a good tek for the portions I should use with these? I don't have a ph stick to test so i need to get the measurements right with them lime and stuff, thats pretty important right?




the old 50/50+ recipe was: half peat, half verm. with 1 tablespoon of gypsum and 1 teaspoon of lime for every cup of peat moss used.

I've heard growers say the teaspoon of lime is a little much.  if you've got pH testsing paper, use it to be sure.

I just sifted a bag of JiffyMix (to get all the debris and sticks out), hydrated it and checked the pH before pasteurizing it.  it was pH 7.  I feel better with the pH up around 10.  .. but I didn't add any lime.  Lazy.  same reason I use the JiffyMix.


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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: uncle_rico]
    #23358063 - 06/18/16 01:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks guys, I think im gonna go with the 50/50+. I have one more question though.

1. On the 50/50+ tek it says some people pasteurize some people sterilize, what are your experiences with pasteurizing, do you prefer it?

2. My tray has been in fruiting conditions for 2 days now as well, no pins yet though only primordial growth. will it be okay to add a pasteurized 50/50+ to this now?


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23358091 - 06/18/16 01:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I've only ever used coir, coir+verm, verm, and jiffy mix as casings. all of those can be sterilized

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OfflineBobabouy
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23358106 - 06/18/16 01:51 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Don't case.

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Bobabouy]
    #23358107 - 06/18/16 01:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Mind if I ask why you recommend I don't Bobabouy?


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"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23358113 - 06/18/16 01:55 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
I've only ever used coir, coir+verm, verm, and jiffy mix as casings. all of those can be sterilized




So that would mean you prefer sterilizing your casings correct? or do you do both? Really don't want to get my PC out if I don't need to, its deep in a closet, very deep.


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23358120 - 06/18/16 01:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

why do you need a PC to sterilize them, I just use boiling water to hydrate

Quote:

Bobabouy said:
Don't case.




what he said

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/18/16 01:58 PM)

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Invisibledankington
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23358125 - 06/18/16 01:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Casing sure helps me :shrug:
Jiffy mix is too easy not to case. 50/50+ is really nice too, as had been said.

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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: dankington]
    #23358149 - 06/18/16 02:03 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

oh thought sterilization had to be done by pcing, my mistake I'll go with that then, I'd prefer to case this one I really prefer the idea of casing my tray and i have exposed grains forgot to cover with a layer of substrate at the end and I wana cover them up now, make me feel a lil better I guess.

I'll post pics soon if the flush is worthy


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

Edited by Designer Drugs (06/18/16 02:04 PM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: Designer Drugs]
    #23358169 - 06/18/16 02:06 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

sterilizing grain sure has to be done with a PC, but sterilization happens in 10 minutes at 170F, 10 minutes at 170F is past pasteurization

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
sterilization is a log function.

170F for 10m is partial sterilization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterility_assurance_level

for lab work, hospitals, research, etc... the standard is 6 log reduction after reaching theoretical 0. so if you have 1 million contaminants you need overall 12 logs of reduction. 6 logs to get from 1,000,000 (10e6) to 0 and then 6 more logs to get to .000001% 910e-6) chance of a contaminant.

sterilization is a tricky word. some people learn in their textbook it means what it means. nothing is alive. but in practice you can't actually have a probability like that you can have a probability that 1/10th of an organism is alive. but that's not as good as 1/1000th a chance. etc...

same goes for pasteurization. the stuff they do for milk and juice doesn't apply to us.
in the industry they measure pasteurization in PUs(pasteurization units)

we pasteurize for a balance of thermoplastics in our substrates(other than coir)

so yes 170F sterilizes. boiling water sterilizes. but pressure cooking gives you the sterility that we need in this hobby.

170F water kills more than 99.99% of organisms after an exposure of a few seconds. it's a kind of sterilization, it's better than disinfection or sanitation but it's not as good as we need for grain



you achieve baseline sterilization under boiling temperatures on surfaces like stainless steel. when sterilizing transfer lines for beer that can't handle 212F heat you can pump 180F water thru and know it's not going to be an infection risk. but sterilization of already clean smooth surfaces like stainless are much different and don't mean shit when you try to correlate it over to soil dirt coir or grains 



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OfflineDesigner Drugs
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Re: To case or not to case [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23358435 - 06/18/16 03:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

awesome thanks for that TC, good to know  :takingnotes:


--------------------


"For the more we go through the fire,
the more refined we become.”

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